[Hirsch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by odigg /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you approach arguments that way, then every headphone is perfect, you just have to find the perfect amp, cable, power supply, DAC, source, humidity, sampling rate, and heaven knows what else before a headphone sounds right.

Agreed.

Although, IME, to get the full potential of a high-end headphone, that's exactly what you have to do. It's a long process, and can take from weeks to years. It's also impossible for purposes of review in a timely manner, and the review would then only apply to the system so assembled.

By far the best approach to understanding reviews is take note of the equipment used, the reviewer's stated preferences, and what you know about what the reviewer likes from reading past posts. If the review contains enough detail that you can understand the context in which it was written, that's as good as you're ever going to get. Skylab has written an excellent review that gives you sufficient detail to understand how he arrived at what he heard. Good work!

And, just in case people still don't get it, it's a lot of work to write a review like that.

 

[Skylab]

Right! I have given plenty of context for which people to use the information I provided in an appropriate way. I have no problem with anyone disagreeing with either my actual observations, good or bad, nor do I have any problem with anyone disagreeing with my conclusions, good or bad.

I have a HUGE problem with people trying to claim that I have in some way reached my observations or conclusions in a way that lacks validity, just because it does not match their own observations or conclusions, and I think such comments are incredibly misguided. It's not possible to alter either my observations, or my conclusions, as they are mine, and mine alone. Unlike a great many people, I make the manner in which my observations were made incredibly transparent - and this is the main purpose of the review - that the method and environment of the review are very well known, and can be better used then, to provide some context for people.

 

[john53]

Quote:

Originally Posted by robm321 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I just wonder what the underlying insecurity of some HD800 owners is, that they will even side with Feifan's transparent attempt to undermine skylabs review without ever challenging the actual sounds as skylab has mentioned. Or to give endless suggestions to "fix" the issues that they never even admitted the HD800 had until now when potential buyers were asking for the negatives? If you want to self justify the money you spent, please just take into consideration some of the newcomers and how you might be doing them a disservice. I think we all realize that they better the HD650. I never felt the HD650 belonged near the top tier no matter how they were amped, and I was slammed by Senn fans in almost the exact same way that is happening with the HD800, but now they all seem to agree. I will be hearing the HD800 soon and will post my thoughts. I'm sure if I say anything negative then it will be said I didn't listen out of the right amp. I didn't place them on the head at the right angle, or the moon was out of phase while I was listening, but I will stick by what I hear without bias one way or another. Boomana just sold hers in favor of her R10s and O2s. Greggf also sent his back after being disappointing. The HD800s seem to be just another flavor that some really enjoy and others don't connect to the music with. What's new? - that's the case with all other headphones. It is what it is, so just enjoy the music.

I am not an owner of the hd 800's and i'll probably never be.When i suggested skylab to try another amp,i did it because i thought that it was very easy for him to find one(read my previous posts)
At the end,everybody should try the audio equipement before buying to make sure that he likes the sound signature/synergy with his set-up.

 

[Skylab]

Quote:

Originally Posted by john53 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I am not an owner of the hd 800's and i'll probably never be.When i suggested skylab to try another amp,i did it because i thought that it was very easy for him to find one(read my previous posts) At the end,everybody should try the audio equipement before buying to make sure that he likes the sound signature/synergy with his set-up.

And I had no problem at all with your suggesting that

Just sorry I can't actually do it.

 

[john53]

No need to apologize skylab,i just tried the hd 800 for the experience,and shared my thoughts here with you,that's all.There is no problem if you can't try what i suggested.At the end it's a bit too much to try 100 amps just for testing one pair of headphones!

 

[silverrain]

.

 

[jingles_97]

Skylab, thanks for the review, really enjoyed reading it. I have been on the fence for these phones, and I have decided to wait until they fix some of the mechanical issues found in the currently production. I am also very glad that Sennheiser are taking issues seriously and promised fixes in future production runs. I can only imagine the amount of pressure reviewers like you get on an open forum, and for you and others to handle all of these gracefully only gets my admiration.

Feifan, I am troubled by our post. Whether you mis-reinterpreted Skylab's disclosure, misunderstood his review methods or his gear selection is all forgivable, but to hide behind sound bites from other people's comments, while touting them as "a random selection" (which all of us can see is not) is shameful. Since you are a HD800 owner, I would have appreciated your post that much more if you gave us your own appraisal of the HD800 in your words as a counterpoint to Skylab's opinion.

 

[tiga3mata]

I would pay for reviews of this quality....you are a credit to Head Fi, Skylab....

 

[Kees]

Quote:

Originally Posted by odigg /img/forum/go_quote.gif How many amps do people want Skylab to try? If you approach arguments that way, then every headphone is perfect, you just have to find the perfect amp, cable, power supply, DAC, source, humidity, sampling rate, and heaven knows what else before a headphone sounds right. If you approach things that way then the sound signature of a headphone is never captured and all reviews are BS. In such a scenario nobody has a valid opinion.

I actually think that is exactly what needs to be done: find the right combination. The headphones are completely worthless on their own, it is all about the right combination. That is why I have so many (completely different) amps. I also would never rank headphones, I could only rank particular combinations.

That is why I think it's great that Skylab can try these headphones on several different amps. That adds a lot to the value of his observations (which are much appreciated anyway).

 

[Snacks]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kees /img/forum/go_quote.gif I actually think that is exactly what needs to be done: find the right combination. The headphones are completely worthless on their own, it is all about the right combination. That is why I have so many (completely different) amps. I also would never rank headphones, I could only rank particular combinations. That is why I think it's great that Skylab can try these headphones on several different amps. That adds a lot to the value of his observations (which are much appreciated anyway).

x2, easier said than done (unless you get lucky and nail it on the first or second try); that's why there are so many differing opinions as it is.

 

[feifan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jingles_97 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Feifan, I am troubled by our post. Whether you mis-reinterpreted Skylab's disclosure, misunderstood his review methods or his gear selection is all forgivable, but to hide behind sound bites from other people's comments, while touting them as "a random selection" (which all of us can see is not) is shameful. Since you are a HD800 owner, I would have appreciated your post that much more if you gave us your own appraisal of the HD800 in your words as a counterpoint to Skylab's opinion.

jingles_97, thanks for the comment. I made the following correction to the post:

RANDOM* LIST OF SELECTED COMMENTS FROM THIS THREAD:
[edited 7.2.09: I meant "RANDOMLY ORDERED LIST . . ." Sorry for the confusion.]

 

[feifan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnwmclean /img/forum/go_quote.gif ^^Have you guys finished, lets get back to ridiculing each other

Wildman, you have my vote for "Mayor of Head-Fi"!

 

[feifan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnwmclean /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have found that listening a little quieter has improved bass, treble and imaging remarkably. If you haven’t done so already I would urge you to try a listening session at levels a couple of notches under what you normally would use. This has been a turnaround point for me and the HD800’s.

x2. My volume knob normally sits between 1:00-2:00. At first, I found myself trying to up the HD800's volume to 3:00 and even 4:00, thinking that some of the bandwidths were too laidback. Even though the result wasn't noticeably louder, the effect after a few minutes was irritation. Returning to 2:00 then 1:00 didn't seem to correct the problem. Finally, taking it down to 12:00, the irritation subsided.

I tend to listen at a slightly higher volume than normal, but I'm learning that with the HD800, less is more. The 2-notch-less rule is a good one. Thanks for pointing this out, johnwmclean.

 

[Canman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by feifan /img/forum/go_quote.gif Good point, Uncle Erik. Hadn't thought of the fact that we might be able to roughly divide the population of head-fiers into two separate populations -- bass-heads and others -- with expectations that are very different. Clears up a lot of the muddle. Reminds me of Ockham's razor and keeping theories as simple as possible. The cans remain constant, but the users clearly stand on one side or the other, divided not by the innate quality of the cans but by their own tastes. So when we evaluate cans, we're not really evaluating the cans but how we're reflected in them. So it really comes down to my likes vs. your likes. This explains why passions and emotions boil over when people's favorite 'phones are put down. "Attack my cans and you attack me!" Food for thought.

How philosophical for a gear forum. We are not evaluating headphones but rather evaluating ourselves!

 

[IPodPJ]

Feifan,
I think your large post had merit and made some very good points but it did come across as if you were in attack mode.

Also, I gathered from your large response that you are using the HD800 with the Headroom BUDA, is this correct? If so, I felt it had one of the worst synergies with the HD800 but some really like it. So we all have different preferences and what sounds good to you will not always sound good to someone else. Skylab is very aware of this, as I think most of us are.