[Skylab]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soundinista /img/forum/go_quote.gif I can't be part of any HD800 divide, since I haven't listened to those phones yet. But, as I understand it, in his otherwise fine post, Uncle Erik opposed the "subwoofer crowd" (my own paraphrase), which he seemed to identify with those who enjoy the DX1000 and the top Denon's, to those who really know realistic, lifelike, dynamic bass. You've just repeated the point. And that point is a grotesque caricature of the sound one gets from the DX1000 and the top Denon's. We don't need this kind of misinformation. I trust that, on reflection, you will agree that we're not well-served by this kind of caricature. It's beneath you and Uncle Erik.

Well put. I had been thinking about this over the weekend. There have been some assertions about the DX1000, many of which were by people with little to no experience with them, that they have some sort of crazy, overblown bass. This is not the case AT ALL. The DX1000 have slightly more prominent bass than the HD800, yes, but it is far, far from a bass monster.

We all hear differently, and have different preferences. Uncle Erik prefers a somehwat restrained bass response, for his own reasons, and that's fine, but it is certainly inappropriate to insinuate that everyone who likes the JVC or Denon headphones is in some way delusional

They offer a slight flavor, just as the HD800 do. But they are both just shading or flavors - not gross colorations as has been suggested.

 

[Canman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by feifan /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'd never let go of the m902. I'm relieved to find that the HD800 synergizes beautifully with the HD800. I can't tear myself away from the combo at this point. I'm still having to futz with the volume level, though, with different tracks. I'm gradually settling in to 66.0.

feifan, thanks for your impressions with the m902. I am relieved to know that the m902 has a chance at synergy with the HD800 since I prefer not to change my system around.

I also discovered that the m902 performance over USB is inferior to SPDIF [with headphones other than HD800]. The sound over USB is unfocused and flat. In comparison, the Headroom maxed desktop I used to have sounded the same USB vs. SPDIF.

 

[John Willett]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canman /img/forum/go_quote.gif feifan, thanks for your impressions with the m902. I am relieved to know that the m902 has a chance at synergy with the HD800 since I prefer not to change my system around. I also discovered that the m902 performance over USB is inferior to SPDIF [with headphones other than HD800]. The sound over USB is unfocused and flat. In comparison, the Headroom maxed desktop I used to have sounded the same USB vs. SPDIF.

I love my m902B.

I have found out from Grace that the 902 has a linear potentiometer and not a logarithmic one - which explains why most of the control is at the upper end.

 

[feifan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soundinista /img/forum/go_quote.gif I can't be part of any HD800 divide, since I haven't listened to those phones yet. But, as I understand it, in his otherwise fine post, Uncle Erik opposed the "subwoofer crowd" (my own paraphrase), which he seemed to identify with those who enjoy the DX1000 and the top Denon's, to those who really know realistic, lifelike, dynamic bass. You've just repeated the point. And that point is a grotesque caricature of the sound one gets from the DX1000 and the top Denon's. We don't need this kind of misinformation. I trust that, on reflection, you will agree that we're not well-served by this kind of caricature. It's beneath you and Uncle Erik.

Soundinista, you're such a gentleman in your criticism that I can't work up any kind of righteous indignation to blast back. LOL!

I reread Uncle Erik's post #240 and just don't see any kind of attack, implicit or explicit, on the DX1000 or bassheads. Here's the section in my mini-review re dynamics where I mention Uncle Erik:

The price one pays for this dynamic accuracy over a wide range is a conscious effort to keep fingers away from the volume knob to get at (to amplify) the soft levels. The reward, though, is an appreciation for the nuance and beauty that's in the soft, wich is crucial to the whole arrangement. See Uncle Erik's post #240 re the importance of dynamics, written from the perspective of a performer who played "the big clarinets and tuba." His point is that low-mid-high dynamics should vary according to (or in relation to) the demands of the music.

This is what impresses me about Uncle Erik's review -- his point that bass ought to be be relative to the composition as a whole. Nowhere do I attack or put down those who love a strong bass or the DX1000.

Still, you're a very careful reader so I'm wondering if, perhaps, you're referring to a post or posts other than these two?

I agree, though, that caricature of individuals is argumentum ad hominem and has no place in a discussion among gentleman. Again, I think I've read nearly everything about the HD800 and can't recall any time Uncle Erik or I have attacked individuals because of their preference for specific cans or bass.

I think there's a misunderstanding here somewhere, and I'd like to see it cleared up.

Cheers!

 

[feifan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canman /img/forum/go_quote.gif I also discovered that the m902 performance over USB is inferior to SPDIF [with headphones other than HD800]. The sound over USB is unfocused and flat. In comparison, the Headroom maxed desktop I used to have sounded the same USB vs. SPDIF.

It's strange but I seldom use the SPDIF. I think it's because the Monster cable that I have is so damned tight that getting it off is a major hassle. I'll have to give the m902's coaxial a more thorough trial.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Canman /img/forum/go_quote.gif In comparison, the Headroom maxed desktop I used to have sounded the same USB vs. SPDIF.

I was about to dump my HRD maxed, too, but kept it because I found myself going to it often for different purposes. It's like a Leatherman -- it's so handy that all the other tools gather dust. What made you give up yours? Was it the m902? I remember reading a review (Wes Phillips'?) that A/B'd the HRD and the m902, and the Headroom came out ahead. On that, I based my decision. But I continued to read excellent comments about the Grace and just had to try it. I'm glad I did. It's a keeper. Looks like a jaguar but built like a tank.

 

[Edwood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Willett /img/forum/go_quote.gif I love my m902B. I have found out from Grace that the 902 has a linear potentiometer and not a logarithmic one - which explains why most of the control is at the upper end.

The m902 does not have an analog potentiometer. It has a rotary encoder with digital control. And the gain curve is not prefectly linear. It makes a jump at around 88-90, can't remember which one, but you can hear it jump, you can even hear a relay clicking inside.

 

[RedBull]

Thanks feifan, the medium gain can explain that.

 

[RedBull]

Quote:

Originally Posted by feifan /img/forum/go_quote.gif I guess there are a lot of quirks that I don't think to mention until a discussion such as this. When using computer as source, I usually slide the computer and player volumes to the max. This probably explains our volume level difference. With the HD800, 68.0 is about the threshold before pain kicks in.

feifan, may I know what player do you usually use when playing with computer as a source?

 

[feifan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedBull /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks feifan, the medium gain can explain that.

RedBull, I can't quite put my finger on it, but I can't get over the feeling that the sound at high gain in the HRD is somehow better, that there's a slight drop off in SQ when the gain is at medium. I'm not sure if I'm just imagining this.

 

[feifan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedBull /img/forum/go_quote.gif feifan, may I know what player do you usually use when playing with computer as a source?

99% of my listen is via computer as source. Until the HD800, it was the m902 with the GS1K via optical. Since the HD800, I've been using the HRD max via USB.

I initially thought the m902 didn't synergize with the HD800, but after input from Canman and John Willett and switching from USB to optical, the synergy was unbelievable. I spent most of yesterday and today with this combo. Sweet, light, and punchy in the right places.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Thanks for the review - Don't know how I missed it till today. I agree with a lot of what you say, except I am happy with the slightly bright treble, and I find the bass to be just enough but a problem if it were any less. Their bass impact, while less than my D2000 or HF-2, is an improvement over any of my electrostatics, while keeping up with the speed, detail and transparency of my electrostatics. The soundstage is very good as you've stated, and the closest "normal" headphone soundstage to my K1000.

 

[John Willett]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwood /img/forum/go_quote.gif The m902 does not have an analog potentiometer. It has a rotary encoder with digital control. And the gain curve is not perfectly linear. It makes a jump at around 88-90, can't remember which one, but you can hear it jump, you can even hear a relay clicking inside.

OK - I was just repeating what Grace told me on the phone yesterday.

 

[Skylab]

John:

Since you seem to be tracking my review thread, perhaps you would like to comment on this:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/5826010-post26.html

While it is too early to jump to conclusions, there does seem to be some difference in a few of the FR charts Sennheiser has provided that, if the differences are common to "batches", would explain why some head-fiers have one opinion of the HD800, and others have a different opinion.

 

[John Willett]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif John: Since you seem to be tracking my review thread, perhaps you would like to comment on this: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/5826010-post26.html I'm actually looking at every 800 thread - partly because of my own passion for music and partly because if I see a trend I can let the factory know (eg: letting them know of the clicking spring and "lint"). While it is too early to jump to conclusions, there does seem to be some difference in a few of the FR charts Sennheiser has provided that, if the differences are common to "batches", would explain why some head-fiers have one opinion of the HD800, and others have a different opinion.

The HD 800 *are* hand made, and I would guess that the slight differences (all within spec.) are due to this.

Without seeing all the charts (or a large number) and comparing serial numbers and, maybe, who made them; it would be difficult to say.

My own pair are # 01300 and are close to Karel's pair in number - so I hope I get a flat response like him.

But don't ask me what they sound like as I have not opened the box yet as I have ear problems at the moment and am putting olive oil in every night until the doctor can syringe them - what a time for this to happen.

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Willett /img/forum/go_quote.gif But don't ask me what they sound like as I have not opened the box yet as I have ear problems at the moment and am putting olive oil in every night until the doctor can syringe them - what a time for this to happen.

Ouch! I feel sorry for you!

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