[BigMango]

Quote:

I know what to do now,turn up both the DAC and the AMP an hour before listening,does music need to be played or just turning them on witheout connecting to any source or destination would be fine.

After the improvements I have seen on my equipment with the burn in, I would personally play the 30 min Isotek, Purist or XLO optimizing/demagnetising tracks. The Isotek also has a 5 minutes rejuvenation (rapid refresher) track that does this. Reading some reviews I have even seen some people are playing this track every time before they start listening to some music. Is this over doing it? I don't know. But I have seen a lot of people saying that demagnetising should be done from time to time.
 
Anyway, just like with switching the equipment on 30 minutes before, there are people who say it works and others who say it doesn't. The best advice imho is to try for yourself and see how it works out with your gear.

 

[regal]

I never believed in burn in.  Bought an AudioGD 3SE and hated it ,  left it plugged in for 2 weeks without listening to it,   put it up for sale and decided to see if it was working ok.  Unbelieveable transformation,  like a gd butterfly.   Pulled the for sale ad right away.    I think AudioGD should put a warning sticker on their big DAC's that they must be burnt in for 2 weeks and must be turned on for 1 hr before use.
 
Quote:

 

So you guys were lucky, because my Ref5 sounded very bad during the first days. And it was on 24/24, I only switched it off to let it settle 15 minutes every day.
 
It is really strange that you mostly noticed bass impact, because mine was very bright, harsh in the highs and metallic, with absolutely no bass impact at all. A lot of clarity, but no bass.
 
As I said, all this suddenly changed within a few hours on the 4th day when I replaced the music with the XLO burnin CD. And today, after continuously playing the Purist Audio and Isotek CDs, the sound is now even more smooth and creamy.
 
It's a real pleasure to listen to it now, completely different from how it was before.
 

 

[slim.a]

 
Quote:

After the improvements I have seen on my equipment with the burn in, I would personally play the 30 min Isotek or XLO optimizing/demagnetising tracks. The Isotek also has a 5 minutes rejuvenation (rapid refresher) track that does this. Reading some reviews I have even seen some people are playing this track every time before they start listening to some music. Is this over doing it? I don't know. But I have seen a lot of people saying that demagnetising should be done from time to time.

 
I would say that it takes around 1 hour at least to warm-up the dac19/c2. However, I feel that they sound best when left on all the time (especially for the DAC).

Whatever the Isotek is doing I noticed 2 things:
- It seems to speed up the burn-in of new equipment
- even in equipement that are "burned in", the Isotek can improve the sound

Personally, I often use the Isotek CD before critical listening. My reasoning is that in the worst case scenario, it doesn't do anything and only helps the warm-up of equipment, and best case scenario, it affects the peformance positively.
 
Quote:

I never believed in burn in.  Bought an AudioGD 3SE and hated it ,  left it plugged in for 2 weeks without listening to it,   put it up for sale and decided to see if it was working ok.  Unbelieveable transformation,  like a gd butterfly.   Pulled the for sale ad right away.    I think AudioGD should put a warning sticker on their big DAC's that they must be burnt in for 2 weeks and must be turned on for 1 hr before use.
 

 

 
The first time I noticed a considerable change in sound with burn in was also with an audio-gd product, it was with the ST-3 headphone amp. I also agree that he should put a visible warning for burn-in.

 

[Black Stuart]

How much juice do these DACs use, I ask because I thought everyone knew that CDPs/DACs/solid state phono stages are best left on 24/7. Indeed Norbert Lehman recs. this for his Black Cube phono stage.
 
Doing this is a big no-no with valve gear because especially o/put valves have a finite life - approx. 2000 hours.
 
Why leave SS gear on 24/7, well every time you switch on a piece of gear unless there is a time delay or other gradual voltage rise device fitted, caps especially will experience a massive voltage rise, indeed  over voltage is the norm for a few seconds, this does nothing for the life of components.
 
The amount of energy actually used by many SS components like TTs, CDPs, phono stages  is actually very low.
 
I use an external PSU, which I originally bought to try and lift the performance of a crap Rega3 TT. Once I encountered the totally superior performance of Japanese D/D 'superdecks from the late 70s/80's I had to find a use for the PSU. Contacting Marantz (I had/have a 63KI mk11) in the UK, gave them the specs of the PSU, they agreed it would be fine to use with their CDP. So I have used this combo ever since and apart from moving from and to two different locations in Spain and then to France where I live now, they have been left on continously for over 12 years.
 
After the  move to France last year and setting up my rig here, I  immediately noticed how bad the sound from the CDP was. After a couple of days, the sound was back to what I remembered.

 

[BigMango]

This is interesting.
 
Do you think that the difference in power sources could explain the different experiences with burnin we have seen with the same equipment?

 

[IPodPJ]

BigMango,
No offense, but I'd bet money that it was your brain burning in and not the equipment, or power fluctuation on the grid.  I think by the 4th day you just happened to get used to the sound and appreciated it for what it was, or it was power fluctuation on the grid.  Kingwa already burns-in all the gear for 100 hours.  Any caps that need to settle should do so in that time period.
 
Also keep in mind, everything can affect your hearing, whether it be how much sleep you got, what medications you might have taken, how much exercise you got (and therefore more oxygen to the brain), what food and drink you ingested, etc.  In addition, audio equipment tends to sound a lot clearer between the hours of 2 a.m. and 4 a.m. (at least in my neighborhood) when power usage is at it's lowest point of the day.  Noise on the lines is less (in apartment buildings) because less people are up using noisy electronics, and power companies aren't trying to provide max power to everyone in the city.
 
The next time you get a new piece of gear, try to keep your routine exactly the same for a week based on what I mentioned above, especially your listening hours.  I think you might find that burn-in is a symptom of placebo.  People usually mistake burn-in for fluctuations in the power grid, since they are not evaluating the gear at the same exact time each day.

 

[Black Stuart]

Big Mango,
I have heard that many think that 110V is more problematic than 230V.For those in Europe whose mains are 'supposed' to operate @ 220/240V - the ideal being 230V,  I don't know if Audio-gd equipment is the same as all other Chinese made gear that I have heard of that is sent over here with an operating voltage of 220V.
 
This can cause problems in all kinds of ways, especially if you live in a 'high' mains area. I know plenty of places in the UK where the voltage can be up to 250V +.or in Spain where many have noticed voltages as low as 190V (if you have lived in Spain, this would not surprise you).
 
For all those who don't believe in 'burn-in' it's time to look at something else on Headfi.
 
There is a lot of 'received wisdom' that is nothing more than BS or is outdated eg. soldering - make a good mechanical joint first - completely unnec. and a real pain in the arse if you ever want to change out that component at a later date.
 
However there is one mantra that I endorse wholeheartedly - never make more than one change at a time within a system - or you lose any and all reference points.
 
So eg. Black Gates - many BGs can take literally hundreds of hours to burn-in - you then decide to try some new i/cs or a power cord or whatever - how do you know that what you are hearing is realted to the i/c or power cord - you don't.
 
That's why I am not surprised at most with open minds hearing little and sometimes big differences from a particular piece of equipment. I personally don't think of cables, chassis wiring as 'accessories' but integral parts of the circuit/s - that comes from my own experience
 
Take a DAC - what is in there -mains Txs, lots of caps, different caps, resistors, signal and power, op-amps, regs, discrete or bog standard. All these are burning or settling in at varying time frames - that's why short of electrical storms it's always better to leave SS stuff on. Really powerful SS amps maybe an exception because they burn so much juice but certainly CDPs  DACs and TTs will sound better left on 24/7, then try new cables or a new op-amp, then and only then can you make an assessment on THAT particular item - common sense really

 

[regal]

Quote:

BigMango,
No offense, but I'd bet money that it was your brain burning in and not the equipment, or power fluctuation on the grid.  I think by the 4th day you just happened to get used to the sound and appreciated it for what it was, or it was power fluctuation on the grid.  Kingwa already burns-in all the gear for 100 hours.  Any caps that need to settle should do so in that time period.
 
.

I don't believe Kingwa when he says he burns in all gear for 100 hrs.  With the Dac19mk3 I didn't notice much of a burn in.  But with the bigger DAC3Se it was real because I didn't listen to the dam thing for two weeks and it sounded like a completly different unit.   Have you owned a bigger AudioGd DAC ?



 
Quote:

. Really powerful SS amps maybe an exception because they burn so much juice but certainly CDPs  DACs and TTs will sound better left on 24/7, then try new cables or a new op-amp, then and only then can you make an assessment on THAT particular item - common sense really

Its not a good idea to leave any SS equipment plugged in 24/7,   the electrolytic caps will start failing,  usually after a couple years depending on how hot the inside of the chassis is.   Electrolytic caps all have a terminal lifespan,  they are like batteries.

 

[BigMango]

 
Quote:

BigMango,
No offense, but I'd bet money that it was your brain burning in and not the equipment, or power fluctuation on the grid.  I think by the 4th day you just happened to get used to the sound and appreciated it for what it was, or it was power fluctuation on the grid.  Kingwa already burns-in all the gear for 100 hours.  Any caps that need to settle should do so in that time period.
 
Also keep in mind, everything can affect your hearing, whether it be how much sleep you got, what medications you might have taken, how much exercise you got (and therefore more oxygen to the brain), what food and drink you ingested, etc.  In addition, audio equipment tends to sound a lot clearer between the hours of 2 a.m. and 4 a.m. (at least in my neighborhood) when power usage is at it's lowest point of the day.  Noise on the lines is less (in apartment buildings) because less people are up using noisy electronics, and power companies aren't trying to provide max power to everyone in the city.
 
The next time you get a new piece of gear, try to keep your routine exactly the same for a week based on what I mentioned above, especially your listening hours.  I think you might find that burn-in is a symptom of placebo.  People usually mistake burn-in for fluctuations in the power grid, since they are not evaluating the gear at the same exact time each day.

No, there is absolutely no placebo here.
 
The difference is huge. The sound went from bright and harsh to smooth and creamy. Bass and bass impacts were absent but now everything is there. Are you also suggesting that the physical impacts of the sound waves are placebos?
 
No, I am not magically creating bass impacts in my head.
 
I have also been checking on the sound night and day, the difference is consistent. It was bad for the first days, day and night; and now it has improved day and night.
 
It was so bad that I wanted to sell it. When you are starting with such an impression, hating the sound, there can be no placebo. Placebo happens when you are positive about something.
 
 
edit: I also know how my HD650s sound. They are boomy. During the Ref5's first days they were not boomy at all, only bright clear and harsh in the highs (this surprised me a lot). Now they are boomy again (and surprisingly smooth), as they are supposed to be.

 

[BigMango]

 
Quote:

I don't believe Kingwa when he says he burns in all gear for 100 hrs.

This is also what I have been thinking. Perhaps my Ref5 didn't have 100 hours.
 
 

 

[Currawong]

iPodPJ: There was most definitely a sonic change with the Fun between first use and a couple of hundred hours of being left switched on. At first it was very definitely harsh, which it is no longer.  As well, the HDAMs go through quite wild sonic changes over the first 350 hours, including a complete drop-out in the treble at 250 hours.  With experimentation, I determined it happened regardless of whether music was playing or not, so was likely due to the heat of the gear.  I agree though that just switched on, my Ref 1 and Phoenix can be somewhat lack-luster.

 

[pategen]

I consider myself a skeptic when it comes to audiophile stuff. Yet, there is zero doubt in my mind of the burn-in effect with DAC19/C2. I have had a lot of audio gear from new, most have not shown any burn-in effect. This time, the difference was big. It's not easy to describe the scale, but just for example: bigger than between K501 and K601.
 
As I told before, I do all my listening after a minimum of two hours' warm up.
 
By the way, class A stuff should in fact warm up faster with no signal. I'm not sure if this is true on the burn-in, as well. I have done most of the burn-in with no signal.

 

[vlach]

Quote:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Burson-Dual-Opamp-upgrade-Marantz-NAD-CD-Player-/110544686907?cmd=ViewItem&pt=AU_CD_Players&hash=item19bcfa0f3b
 

Thanks a lot!

 

[vlach]

 
Quote:

BigMango,
No offense, but I'd bet money that it was your brain burning in and not the equipment, or power fluctuation on the grid.  I think by the 4th day you just happened to get used to the sound and appreciated it for what it was, or it was power fluctuation on the grid.  Kingwa already burns-in all the gear for 100 hours.  Any caps that need to settle should do so in that time period.
 
Also keep in mind, everything can affect your hearing, whether it be how much sleep you got, what medications you might have taken, how much exercise you got (and therefore more oxygen to the brain), what food and drink you ingested, etc.  In addition, audio equipment tends to sound a lot clearer between the hours of 2 a.m. and 4 a.m. (at least in my neighborhood) when power usage is at it's lowest point of the day.  Noise on the lines is less (in apartment buildings) because less people are up using noisy electronics, and power companies aren't trying to provide max power to everyone in the city.
 
The next time you get a new piece of gear, try to keep your routine exactly the same for a week based on what I mentioned above, especially your listening hours.  I think you might find that burn-in is a symptom of placebo.  People usually mistake burn-in for fluctuations in the power grid, since they are not evaluating the gear at the same exact time each day.

Another variable to keep in mind regarding comparative listening is how our ears clear/equalize just from swallowing. Sometimes you take an elevator ride or drive your car up & down a hill and your hearing is affected but you are not necessarily aware of it (i am not talking about the obvious ear blocking you get from a plane landing), this can be very suttle and my point is that our ears are not always exactly the same from one listening session to the next. How many times have you swallowed and all of a sudden you ears clear and the sound becomes slightly clearer? Anyway, i think it's just one more thing that should be accounted for since we are on this topic...

 

[kunalraiker]

Quote:

 
 
I would say that it takes around 1 hour at least to warm-up the dac19/c2. However, I feel that they sound best when left on all the time (especially for the DAC).

 

Would the source need to be connected, as I usually don't attach my laptop when I'am not listening to music.