Review: cMoy Headphone Amp Bass BOOST Edition
Dec 23, 2009 at 7:18 PM Post #121 of 192
Thanks razorblader.

I talked to him and bought it this morning. He was generous with his answers and I am really looking forward to getting it. I also am sending him a different flavor tin as I wanted Chocolate, and he will be doing it as soon it arrives.

Thanks for the advice and Happy Holidays.
 
Dec 24, 2009 at 3:26 PM Post #122 of 192
Quote:

Originally Posted by razorblader /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I've been using the Cmoy 2.02 Bass boost version made by John Seaber for about two months now, mostly with my AKG 601 headphones, sources are the Iphone 3GS and the Cowon X5 (both on line out), LODS are Practical Devices and Canare cooper cable with Neutrik plug, the sound is very crisp and detailed, the bass boost really works wonders for the AKG 601's.

Have also tried it with my Phonak Audéo PFE IEM's and they also work very nicely together, read good things about the amp but was still positively impressed by its performance.

Really an excellent portable HP amp, it has enough Power to drive my AKG headphones without a problem and the soundstage is nicely layered.
Highly recommended and honestly a bargain for the price.
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Razorblader,

Thank you for your post.. Now i'm considering buying K702, driven by cMoyBB 2.02....
atsmile.gif


Current rigs: Sony NW-A808, CX500, cMoyBB 2.02 (still at burning-in phase)...
 
Dec 27, 2009 at 11:50 PM Post #123 of 192
Quote:

Originally Posted by rappsy /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Thanks razorblader.

I talked to him and bought it this morning. He was generous with his answers and I am really looking forward to getting it. I also am sending him a different flavor tin as I wanted Chocolate, and he will be doing it as soon it arrives.

Thanks for the advice and Happy Holidays.



The chocolate amp, sweet.
biggrin.gif


Have fun with your new amp and happy holidays (New Years still coming up :wink:) to you too.
 
Dec 27, 2009 at 11:54 PM Post #124 of 192
Quote:

Originally Posted by komebudu /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Razorblader,

Thank you for your post.. Now i'm considering buying K702, driven by cMoyBB 2.02....
atsmile.gif


Current rigs: Sony NW-A808, CX500, cMoyBB 2.02 (still at burning-in phase)...



That should be a very nice combination indeed, would love to hear your impressions if you choose to go that route.
 
Dec 28, 2009 at 8:11 AM Post #125 of 192
I am no hardcore audiophile. I only wanted to share my experience…and MHO..

After having burnt-in for more than 72 hours ( I used only 2 IKEA alkaline batteries J )… the sound was simply astounding…. Sara K’s ‘Brick House’… sounded more air that I didn’t realized before… more attack, more dynamic, crisper.. this amp added more detail… the instruments had more volume. I could clearly hear fingers plucked guitars, and her sublime voice rendered perfectly….and I didn’t now that Sara K breathe..!
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Maybe there are people who doesn’t like ‘added’ detail in sound reproduction... me neither. But for this case, I made an exception because the ‘added’ detail was so natural and in a very pleasant way… even with humble CX500 which well known as a bit dry sounded, less energy in HF…and bass oriented phones (I exaggerated a little..  .. CX500 was good earphones actually, for the price off course) could sound quite analytical…I can’t imagine what this CmoyBB 2.02 could do for more decent cans…

Soundstage wise, I could comment more since CX500 was not designed for that…I supposed… I still however heard larger soundstage even I could not detect precisely where the instruments/musicians were located. One of great example was Ray Browns’ Superbass – Sculler Blues… nice… very nice indeed….
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Bass boost? I only engaged this feature on certain music such pop, rock, electronic… but for jazz, classical or naturally well recorded acoustic musics, I disengaged it… it’s my preference after all… not because the bass is bloated or mudding other frequency spectrum… The bass boost rendered bass more impact, deeper… Only that I could not compare with other head-amp or cans…


The only complain … I didn’t know if it happened to anybody else… I just wanted to hear full impact from Kitaro’s Matsuri Live, I increased the volume up.. till my ear drums feels uncomfortable.. then I can hear distortion… something like crete signal or like the current was insufficient to deliver such full impact… I don’t know if perhaps it was due to the fact that CX500 has low impedance of 16 Ohms… Maybe Blackinches could give some comments…?


When I returned to my Sony NW-A808 directly to CX500 without CmoyBB 2.02, it sounded raw…less juicy… a little bit dry…less organic… detail was less pronounced..I still could tweak by adjusting freq equalizer, quite impressive result but it seemed artificial now.. The magic was gone…! Maybe my NW-A808 had entrusted his new mate, CmoyBB to take over all music detailing job …
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. Highly recommended ..!!!

AKG… I’m coming….!!!!
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Dec 28, 2009 at 2:16 PM Post #126 of 192
Thanks for your review komebudu, interesting to hear about what this amp can do with the CX500's. About the distortion on high volumes, I don't get that with my AKG phones and remember that you can power the amp with an external power supply with higher voltages than 9V as well.
 
Dec 29, 2009 at 5:42 PM Post #127 of 192
I'm using a first generation iphone & Klipsch custom 2 earphones. Is this (or any) amp going to improve the quality of my hearing experience?

My biggest concern is that my iphone creates a bit of static, obviously only noticeable when no music is playing. Will this static become a problem when amplified?

And finally: I saw a chinese seller on Ebay selling Cmoy's with build-in li-ion batteries. I like it's design & the rechargeable battery. But are they just as good as the other ones?
 
Dec 29, 2009 at 8:54 PM Post #128 of 192
Quote:

Originally Posted by komebudu /img/forum/go_quote.gif
The only complain … I didn’t know if it happened to anybody else… I just wanted to hear full impact from Kitaro’s Matsuri Live, I increased the volume up.. till my ear drums feels uncomfortable.. then I can hear distortion… something like crete signal or like the current was insufficient to deliver such full impact… I don’t know if perhaps it was due to the fact that CX500 has low impedance of 16 Ohms… Maybe Blackinches could give some comments…?


This happens mostly when a low impedance HP is used under low voltage (< 9V) conditions. How razorblader has mentioned before, you can also connect a power-supply of 24V DC (100 mW - 1000 mW). It's hardly recommended to turn up the volume of your audio player to approximately 70%, so that the input for the amplifier is strong enough. The source volume should be set so the amplifier plays cleanly to slightly past half of its volume knob rotation. Use a line-out signal whenever possible, iPod line-output adapters can be also found online. A high voltage DC adapter can easily extend the dynamic range of the cMoyBB.

What here also plays a role, is that the volume control on the cMoyBB affects the gain too. The higher the volume, the higher the gain. This is one of the reasons why the most HP's would work without customization.
 
Dec 31, 2009 at 1:41 AM Post #129 of 192
I picked up one of these for kicks.

I really have to say, it's quite a few steps ahead of the total Airhead (using a hp or line out).
 
Dec 31, 2009 at 3:42 PM Post #130 of 192
Quote:

Originally Posted by AcousticDreams /img/forum/go_quote.gif
This happens mostly when a low impedance HP is used under low voltage (< 9V) conditions. How razorblader has mentioned before, you can also connect a power-supply of 24V DC (100 mW - 1000 mW). It's hardly recommended to turn up the volume of your audio player to approximately 70%, so that the input for the amplifier is strong enough. The source volume should be set so the amplifier plays cleanly to slightly past half of its volume knob rotation. Use a line-out signal whenever possible, iPod line-output adapters can be also found online. A high voltage DC adapter can easily extend the dynamic range of the cMoyBB.

What here also plays a role, is that the volume control on the cMoyBB affects the gain too. The higher the volume, the higher the gain. This is one of the reasons why the most HP's would work without customization.



Thank you for the advice, AscousticDreams and Razorblader.

I had purchased 12V (1000mA) DC supply adapter.... and just received K701 (not K702 as planned... ). The problem is still there. I had however send a S.O.S signal to Blackinches... hopefully he would solve as quickly as possible (I know he will...).

Luckily my K701 is on burning-in treatment...
wink.gif
 
Dec 31, 2009 at 10:52 PM Post #131 of 192
Quote:

Originally Posted by komebudu /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I increased the volume up.. till my ear drums feels uncomfortable.. then I can hear distortion… something like crete signal or like the current was insufficient to deliver such full impact…


This is not a defect, per se. Remember, the cMoyBB is a cMoy with switchable bass boost and several power supply enhancements (a TLE2426 virtual ground instead of a resistor divider, decoupling capacitors, and a low impedance return plane). These features give the cMoyBB an edge over the base cMoy circuit, but it's still a cMoy.

Assuming a stable amplifier such as the cMoyBB, distortion at "uncomfortable" volume levels can be the result of one (or several) of the following situations:

1) Insufficient supply voltage. This can be expected when operating high impedance headphones at very high volumes with a 9V battery. When the volume is raised too high, the opamp is forced to clip the signal. Bass boost exasperates the problem by demanding an even stronger signal voltage. An 18-24V power adapter will significantly raise the positive and negative supply rails, therefore, the opamp can then produce higher voltage signals (i.e., louder music) before being driven into clipping.

2) Insufficient current. Typical opamps supply 20-30mA current, which is generally enough to attain reasonably loud volumes. Efficient headphones will reach dangerously loud volume levels before consuming too much current. Even moderately inefficient headphones can reach high volumes without overloading a cMoy. However, it is unrealistic to expect 20mA to be enough to drive all headphones at absurd volumes. Some headphones simply demand more current than a cMoy can provide; they may barely reach the maximum volume of an iPod. Nothing can be done about this in a cMoy, else it would not be called a cMoy.

3) Physical limitations of the drivers. Every headphone driver (speaker cone) will reach a point where it cannot physically respond to the voltage received from the amplifier. Most commonly, this occurs when listening to strongly amplified bass. It is rare for a cMoy to overexert headphone drivers, but it can happen.


komebudu: You are exactly right, I suspect the amplifier is running out of current at those "uncomfortable" volume levels with your CX500's. At only 16 ohms, it's extremely unlikely that voltage is an issue. An 18V+ power adapter may help slightly with your AKG K-701's, but from my experience, they also need more current to achieve painful volumes (volume is quite subjective, though).

For anyone new to the scene, it is important to understand the goals of headphone amplification. Refined sound quality is the chief concern! The ability to reach higher volumes comes secondary.

Some general advise: If you haven't acquired it already, spend some time reading about hearing loss and tinnitus. Most people here are well aware of this risk, but I always make a point to warn anyone who chooses to listen to loud music...

Health risks aside, current limitations can only be overcome by adding a current buffering stage to the amplifier and its ground channel. As mentioned above, however, we're then talking about redesigning the cMoy.

Happy New Year, everyone!

--JDS
 
Jan 1, 2010 at 7:15 AM Post #132 of 192
Quote:

Originally Posted by blackinches /img/forum/go_quote.gif
This is not a defect, per se. Remember, the cMoyBB is a cMoy with switchable bass boost and several power supply enhancements (a TLE2426 virtual ground instead of a resistor divider, decoupling capacitors, and a low impedance return plane). These features give the cMoyBB an edge over the base cMoy circuit, but it's still a cMoy.

Assuming a stable amplifier such as the cMoyBB, distortion at "uncomfortable" volume levels can be the result of one (or several) of the following situations:

1) Insufficient supply voltage. This can be expected when operating high impedance headphones at very high volumes with a 9V battery. When the volume is raised too high, the opamp is forced to clip the signal. Bass boost exasperates the problem by demanding an even stronger signal voltage. An 18-24V power adapter will significantly raise the positive and negative supply rails, therefore, the opamp can then produce higher voltage signals (i.e., louder music) before being driven into clipping.

2) Insufficient current. Typical opamps supply 20-30mA current, which is generally enough to attain reasonably loud volumes. Efficient headphones will reach dangerously loud volume levels before consuming too much current. Even moderately inefficient headphones can reach high volumes without overloading a cMoy. However, it is unrealistic to expect 20mA to be enough to drive all headphones at absurd volumes. Some headphones simply demand more current than a cMoy can provide; they may barely reach the maximum volume of an iPod. Nothing can be done about this in a cMoy, else it would not be called a cMoy.

3) Physical limitations of the drivers. Every headphone driver (speaker cone) will reach a point where it cannot physically respond to the voltage received from the amplifier. Most commonly, this occurs when listening to strongly amplified bass. It is rare for a cMoy to overexert headphone drivers, but it can happen.


komebudu: You are exactly right, I suspect the amplifier is running out of current at those "uncomfortable" volume levels with your CX500's. At only 16 ohms, it's extremely unlikely that voltage is an issue. An 18V+ power adapter may help slightly with your AKG K-701's, but from my experience, they also need more current to achieve painful volumes (volume is quite subjective, though).

For anyone new to the scene, it is important to understand the goals of headphone amplification. Refined sound quality is the chief concern! The ability to reach higher volumes comes secondary.

Some general advise: If you haven't acquired it already, spend some time reading about hearing loss and tinnitus. Most people here are well aware of this risk, but I always make a point to warn anyone who chooses to listen to loud music...

Health risks aside, current limitations can only be overcome by adding a current buffering stage to the amplifier and its ground channel. As mentioned above, however, we're then talking about redesigning the cMoy.

Happy New Year, everyone!

--JDS



Hi Blackinches,

Thanks for giving all those advice... at least least i know where i should go... before getting deaf... hi..hi..

My next step... is to sell my K701... ha..ha..ha... just joking..

Actually I will need to seek for new desktop headamp... while keeping CmoyBB for my daily portable purposes.. after all, it was designed for that, right......?

Keep up creating good products, Blackinches….
 
Jan 13, 2010 at 5:25 AM Post #133 of 192
I recently built on of these little guys, was my first project (i've got a fair amount of soldering experience though). Went pretty quick, hardest part was the case. Fired up and worked the first time. I used the panasonic fm power supply cap, and the wima 1uf caps. I have a question though, I noticed with my recabled Koss KSC75, at moderate to high volume the amp starts to clip. Is this normal for a cmoy?

edit: forgot to mention the gain is "8", I might be able to get to half volume on the pot /w maxed mp3 player volume before clipping.
I've also got a spare AD743JN laying around, I wonder if this op-amp is compatible with this cmoy?
 
Jan 14, 2010 at 2:10 PM Post #134 of 192
well..well...

Now i can live happily with my K701 driven by CmoyBB....ONLY when using 24V supply, and ONLY bass boost toggle switched off...otherwise, clipping is unavoidable. Off course i'm not going to push the little baby to clip whatsoever... but it drives K701 higher than comfortable sound level without distortion... it's very good indeed, knowing that how lazy K701 is.

I prefer using my CX500 for rock music....for the moment...

ps: K701 seems more sensitive after more than 320hrs burned-in... (or it is me who is less deaf than last two weeks...? )
 
Apr 8, 2010 at 2:08 AM Post #135 of 192
I just read the whole thread and Im bout to purchase may amp as soon as J. Seaber responds to this last question I had to ask him.
 

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