[gunner1905]

Quote:

First off, the Fiio L3 is an LOD, not an amp. I only use one portable amp (PA2V2). Very good for the price I paid.
 
I have not yet had the chance to hear the Westone 4, but it has been said that it is very smooth and balanced. Both the Shure and Westone IEMs have excellent sound quality, the only thing they lack compared to an open-back can is soundstage, but the same can be said for almost every IEM (except for the TF10 and IE8).
 
But really, are you going to be doing critical listening anyway in a noisy environment? Isolation is the main advantage of IEMs, and it makes up for many of their other shortcomings.
 

 
Actually I just ordered PA2V2 from Gary, should arrive by this or next week, and I plan to use it with my ipod classic. Noob question, but what does the LOD do exactly? does it make a big difference to the normal out?
 
Anyway, I think I've narrowed down my choices of IEMs between: Shure SE535, Westone 4, Sennheiser IE8, UE TF10, Head direct RE0, EarSonics SM3. That's a long shortlist, and it seems I need more to do more research, and get more suggestions.
I even still have to choose between IEMs or headphones.
 
Thanks for the suggestions, sorry for bugging you again and again.

 

[meemorize]

Quote:

 
Actually I just ordered PA2V2 from Gary, should arrive by this or next week, and I plan to use it with my ipod classic. Noob question, but what does the LOD do exactly? does it make a big difference to the normal out?
 
Anyway, I think I've narrowed down my choices of IEMs between: Shure SE535, Westone 4, Sennheiser IE8, UE TF10, Head direct RE0, EarSonics SM3. That's a long shortlist, and it seems I need more to do more research, and get more suggestions.
I even still have to choose between IEMs or headphones.
 
Thanks for the suggestions, sorry for bugging you again and again.

 
Well, when you use a headphone out (as you currently do) then that output is already amped by the device (usually a cheaper amp circuit with not as good a quality as a dedicated amp such as the PA2V2).
A LOD (Line out adapter) plugs into your dock connector and picks up on the 'raw' audio feed before it gets passed through the cheap/bad device circuitry, and passes this on to your better amp, the PA2V2.
 
So without an LOD you effectively do this:
Sound coming from device => cheap device circuits amp the sounds poorly => already poorly amped sound get passed to PA2V2 which amps the already tainted source => headphone.
 
Personally I can live without a portable headphone amp, but if you do choose to use one it would definitely be advisable to also get a good LOD.
 
 

 

[Meloncoly]

I have the HD25-1, the ESW9A, and the W4, so I might be of some help to you. First of all, even though I have all of these headphones, I don't listen to the ESW9A and the HD25-1 anymore. I find that the Westones suit me for all types of music and I don't feel the want or need to listen to the headphones. Is the sound quality of the Westones better than the HD25-1/ESW9A? Kinda. I personally think that the W4 excel at more categories than those two headphones and that's why I use it. That's not to say that the headphones are worse; it's just that I prefer the W4 for everyday use. The only times I use the headphones are when my ears hurt from wearing the IEMs too long (5+ hrs in one sitting), then I would switch to my ESW9A.
 
Portability wise, I would only recommend the W4 and the HD25-1. As you may already know, the HD25 is built like a tank. The ESW9 is not. When I am wearing it out, I'm so paranoid with it. Every time my  jacket zipper accidentally swipes it, I have a heart attack. Every time I put it down, I have a heart attack. Every time people on the bus swipe my headphones with their arms, I have a heart attack. It's just not good to bring it out because it will just ruin the wood in the long run. You can be careful but you can't control what will happen in the world. Plus the sweat that goes onto the leather, is also not good. It has very to little isolation and there's just no point listening to that over something else. If you plan to frequent very quiet places and don't have to worry about the people and the elements, then the ESW9 would be feasible, but other than that, it just isn't worth it.
 
I'm looking at your list for what you listen to and you state that you don't listen to a lot of music with vocals, which is another negative point against the ESW9A for you. I bought my pair solely to listen to female vocals, and nothing else. If you're going the headphone route, the HD25 isn't a bad choice for the music you have listed. I have some of the music you have listed and it sounds just fine through the HD25. It sounds better through the W4 though.
 
IEMs are nice for portable use because of the small form factor and the isolation. But if you get IEMs, you have to be pretty careful with them. The cable is usually what I'm worried about the most. Also, hygiene is a big factor with IEMs. There are many times where I've gotten some ear infections because I wear them outside and stuff just gets on it. I carry small alcohol wipes with me which fixed the problem. Isolation is good, but some people can't stand having tips in their ears for a long period of time, or at all. With IEMs, you don't really need to worry about an amp. I rather not have one so that I can retain max portability, but whatever floats your boat.
 
I would give you sound impressions but I am horrible at describing music. I personally would choose the W4 among your choices. Hope this helps a bit.

 

[lazuline]

awesome reply.. I wanted to add that with the HD25 the agressive sound actually is a plus when you're in a noisy enviroment, but in most other circumstances you'd want something more laid back, (unless you're a treblehead). The cable length on the HD25 is also damn right perfect versus most other studio cans.
 
As far as universal IEMs, there are far to many out there and the only real way to find out what you like is through trial and error. Order though someone with a good return policy--like directly from amazon--and get to it. You'll eventually stumble upon something you like. Worst case scenario you can always resell here in the FS/FT, which btw is a great place to audition gear by buying used.
Quote:

I have the HD25-1, the ESW9A, and the W4, so I might be of some help to you. First of all, even though I have all of these headphones, I don't listen to the ESW9A and the HD25-1 anymore. I find that the Westones suit me for all types of music and I don't feel the want or need to listen to the headphones. Is the sound quality of the Westones better than the HD25-1/ESW9A? Kinda. I personally think that the W4 excel at more categories than those two headphones and that's why I use it. That's not to say that the headphones are worse; it's just that I prefer the W4 for everyday use. The only times I use the headphones are when my ears hurt from wearing the IEMs too long (5+ hrs in one sitting), then I would switch to my ESW9A.
 
Portability wise, I would only recommend the W4 and the HD25-1. As you may already know, the HD25 is built like a tank. The ESW9 is not. When I am wearing it out, I'm so paranoid with it. Every time my  jacket zipper accidentally swipes it, I have a heart attack. Every time I put it down, I have a heart attack. Every time people on the bus swipe my headphones with their arms, I have a heart attack. It's just not good to bring it out because it will just ruin the wood in the long run. You can be careful but you can't control what will happen in the world. Plus the sweat that goes onto the leather, is also not good. It has very to little isolation and there's just no point listening to that over something else. If you plan to frequent very quiet places and don't have to worry about the people and the elements, then the ESW9 would be feasible, but other than that, it just isn't worth it.
 
I'm looking at your list for what you listen to and you state that you don't listen to a lot of music with vocals, which is another negative point against the ESW9A for you. I bought my pair solely to listen to female vocals, and nothing else. If you're going the headphone route, the HD25 isn't a bad choice for the music you have listed. I have some of the music you have listed and it sounds just fine through the HD25. It sounds better through the W4 though.
 
IEMs are nice for portable use because of the small form factor and the isolation. But if you get IEMs, you have to be pretty careful with them. The cable is usually what I'm worried about the most. Also, hygiene is a big factor with IEMs. There are many times where I've gotten some ear infections because I wear them outside and stuff just gets on it. I carry small alcohol wipes with me which fixed the problem. Isolation is good, but some people can't stand having tips in their ears for a long period of time, or at all. With IEMs, you don't really need to worry about an amp. I rather not have one so that I can retain max portability, but whatever floats your boat.
 
I would give you sound impressions but I am horrible at describing music. I personally would choose the W4 among your choices. Hope this helps a bit.

 

 

[alv4426]

 

I have the M50, HD25, and the TF10. 
Sound quality wise to me it goes TF10>HD25>M50, but it depends on the type of music you listen to for the HD25 and M50 where anything other than electronic and hip hop are better on the HD25. I havent had the HD25 very long but honestly to me they do sound like an upgrade from the M50.
Portable wise I wouldnt use the M50 as portable it is a FULL size can. In fact I think that the TF10 and HD25 would be a better size comparison 

 i kid. And the M50 cable is 10ft long i think while the HD25 is normal length. (ill post a pic comparing to the tiny HD25). I do have a problem with isolation and leakage with the HD25 I just dont get any I feel that they are worse than my semi-open DT880 but I seem to be the only person with this problem. But I am also part of the group that believes only IEMs are portable.
​

 
this pic doesnt do it justice the M50 feels and is much bigger than the HD25. The Senns feel like toys in comparison.

 

[lazuline]

Just goes to show you how personal sound is... I would rate them M50>HD25>TF10, hence my suggestion for experimentation.
 
Quote:

 

I have the M50, HD25, and the TF10. 
Sound quality wise to me it goes TF10>HD25>M50, but it depends on the type of music you listen to for the HD25 and M50 where anything other than electronic and hip hop are better on the HD25. I havent had the HD25 very long but honestly to me they do sound like an upgrade from the M50.
Portable wise I wouldnt use the M50 as portable it is a FULL size can. In fact I think that the TF10 and HD25 would be a better size comparison 

 i kid. And the M50 cable is 10ft long i think while the HD25 is normal length. (ill post a pic comparing to the tiny HD25). I do have a problem with isolation and leakage with the HD25 I just dont get any I feel that they are worse than my semi-open DT880 but I seem to be the only person with this problem. But I am also part of the group that believes only IEMs are portable.
​

 
this pic doesnt do it justice the M50 feels and is much bigger than the HD25. The Senns feel like toys in comparison.

 

 

[Brooko]

Here's an alternative - since you're looking at possibly a good IEM coupled with a bigger closed can for transportable (rather than portable) use.
 
IEM Brainwavz B2 (dual BA) - basically same as the Fischer DBA2 - really an excellent IEM for the price, good fit and islation.  They do classical quite well for an IEM - nicely balanced - and I find them pretty good for Rock / Prog Rock.
 
For your cans - the Shure SRH840 - if you can look around, and ring for best pricing - you should get them under $150.  Again - for your genres - I think in their current price bracket they are are one of the best performers.  Even though I've gradiually gone further up the chain, I'm still thinking about buying these again.  As a closed can, they really are 'that good'.
 
BTW - I have very wide musical tastes - but I do listen to a lot of classical (currently going through a Tchaikovsky violin phase), and love prog rock (a lot of Floyd and PT).  Both B2 and SRH840 I listed above do well (for my ears anyway).  Should be able to land both combined under your $300 budget.  Neither need an amp - although the SRH840 scales up if you do have one.
 
Food for thought anyway

 

[gunner1905]

Quote:

I have the HD25-1, the ESW9A, and the W4, so I might be of some help to you. First of all, even though I have all of these headphones, I don't listen to the ESW9A and the HD25-1 anymore. I find that the Westones suit me for all types of music and I don't feel the want or need to listen to the headphones. Is the sound quality of the Westones better than the HD25-1/ESW9A? Kinda. I personally think that the W4 excel at more categories than those two headphones and that's why I use it. That's not to say that the headphones are worse; it's just that I prefer the W4 for everyday use. The only times I use the headphones are when my ears hurt from wearing the IEMs too long (5+ hrs in one sitting), then I would switch to my ESW9A.
 
Portability wise, I would only recommend the W4 and the HD25-1. As you may already know, the HD25 is built like a tank. The ESW9 is not. When I am wearing it out, I'm so paranoid with it. Every time my  jacket zipper accidentally swipes it, I have a heart attack. Every time I put it down, I have a heart attack. Every time people on the bus swipe my headphones with their arms, I have a heart attack. It's just not good to bring it out because it will just ruin the wood in the long run. You can be careful but you can't control what will happen in the world. Plus the sweat that goes onto the leather, is also not good. It has very to little isolation and there's just no point listening to that over something else. If you plan to frequent very quiet places and don't have to worry about the people and the elements, then the ESW9 would be feasible, but other than that, it just isn't worth it.
 
I'm looking at your list for what you listen to and you state that you don't listen to a lot of music with vocals, which is another negative point against the ESW9A for you. I bought my pair solely to listen to female vocals, and nothing else. If you're going the headphone route, the HD25 isn't a bad choice for the music you have listed. I have some of the music you have listed and it sounds just fine through the HD25. It sounds better through the W4 though.
 
IEMs are nice for portable use because of the small form factor and the isolation. But if you get IEMs, you have to be pretty careful with them. The cable is usually what I'm worried about the most. Also, hygiene is a big factor with IEMs. There are many times where I've gotten some ear infections because I wear them outside and stuff just gets on it. I carry small alcohol wipes with me which fixed the problem. Isolation is good, but some people can't stand having tips in their ears for a long period of time, or at all. With IEMs, you don't really need to worry about an amp. I rather not have one so that I can retain max portability, but whatever floats your boat.
 
I would give you sound impressions but I am horrible at describing music. I personally would choose the W4 among your choices. Hope this helps a bit.

 
Wow, thanks for your very informative post. I think I'm gonna get an IEM whether Westone 4 or the TF10 (or maybe the HD25 cause it seems small enough), I already have a full size headphone so getting a IEM (or the HD25) makes the most sense to me.

 
Quote:

awesome reply.. I wanted to add that with the HD25 the agressive sound actually is a plus when you're in a noisy enviroment, but in most other circumstances you'd want something more laid back, (unless you're a treblehead). The cable length on the HD25 is also damn right perfect versus most other studio cans.
 
As far as universal IEMs, there are far to many out there and the only real way to find out what you like is through trial and error. Order though someone with a good return policy--like directly from amazon--and get to it. You'll eventually stumble upon something you like. Worst case scenario you can always resell here in the FS/FT, which btw is a great place to audition gear by buying used.
 

Yeah, if I don't get a IEM I'll probably get a HD25, cause I'm probably going to use it while outside.

 
Quote:

 

I have the M50, HD25, and the TF10. 
Sound quality wise to me it goes TF10>HD25>M50, but it depends on the type of music you listen to for the HD25 and M50 where anything other than electronic and hip hop are better on the HD25. I havent had the HD25 very long but honestly to me they do sound like an upgrade from the M50.
Portable wise I wouldnt use the M50 as portable it is a FULL size can. In fact I think that the TF10 and HD25 would be a better size comparison 

 i kid. And the M50 cable is 10ft long i think while the HD25 is normal length. (ill post a pic comparing to the tiny HD25). I do have a problem with isolation and leakage with the HD25 I just dont get any I feel that they are worse than my semi-open DT880 but I seem to be the only person with this problem. But I am also part of the group that believes only IEMs are portable.
​

 
this pic doesnt do it justice the M50 feels and is much bigger than the HD25. The Senns feel like toys in comparison.

 
Hmm, so the IEM is either Westone 4 or TF 10. Maybe I should wait for ljokerl's IEM review.
 
Thanks all, for the great advice

 

[alv4426]

There is that main problem with the TF10 and that is comfort and maybe build quality. They are very big IEMs and some people cannot listen to them for long periods (I can go maybe 1.2 hours without discomfort), and the cable is pretty horrible its built out of really cheap feeling plastic/vinyl and has terrible memory wire. I had westone 2 and they are the most comfortable IEMs I ever had and the cable is awesome but they just couldnt beat the TF10 sound wise so I returned them. But from what I have read the Westone 3 sounds similar to the TF10 and has all the westone awesomeness. So I think you should add them to your list as well, but TF10 for $99 is unbeatable.

 

[gunner1905]

Quote:

There is that main problem with the TF10 and that is comfort and maybe build quality. They are very big IEMs and some people cannot listen to them for long periods (I can go maybe 1.2 hours without discomfort), and the cable is pretty horrible its built out of really cheap feeling plastic/vinyl and has terrible memory wire. I had westone 2 and they are the most comfortable IEMs I ever had and the cable is awesome but they just couldnt beat the TF10 sound wise so I returned them. But from what I have read the Westone 3 sounds similar to the TF10 and has all the westone awesomeness. So I think you should add them to your list as well, but TF10 for $99 is unbeatable.

 
Yeah I think that the westone 4 would be TF10 plus plus cause for the westone 4 I could buy the TF10 and a HD25. How much of a size difference anyway do you think it is?
Also do you know anything about foam tips? Does it really make IEMs more comfortable?
 
Thanks

 

[gunner1905]

Quote:

Here's an alternative - since you're looking at possibly a good IEM coupled with a bigger closed can for transportable (rather than portable) use.
 
IEM Brainwavz B2 (dual BA) - basically same as the Fischer DBA2 - really an excellent IEM for the price, good fit and islation.  They do classical quite well for an IEM - nicely balanced - and I find them pretty good for Rock / Prog Rock.
 
For your cans - the Shure SRH840 - if you can look around, and ring for best pricing - you should get them under $150.  Again - for your genres - I think in their current price bracket they are are one of the best performers.  Even though I've gradiually gone further up the chain, I'm still thinking about buying these again.  As a closed can, they really are 'that good'.
 
BTW - I have very wide musical tastes - but I do listen to a lot of classical (currently going through a Tchaikovsky violin phase), and love prog rock (a lot of Floyd and PT).  Both B2 and SRH840 I listed above do well (for my ears anyway).  Should be able to land both combined under your $300 budget.  Neither need an amp - although the SRH840 scales up if you do have one.
 
Food for thought anyway

 
Thanks for the suggestion, but I already have a transportable headphone, HD 595, so my whole budget can be used for IEMs or portable headphones.

 

[alv4426]

I'm not too sure what you're asking here, if your asking how much bigger the TF10 is then the westones than I can say that a single side of the TF10 was as big as maybe three westone 2 but the westone 3/4 (they are same size) is supposed to be a little bigger than the W2 so maybe two W3 fit one TF10. As for foam tips I personally dislike complys because they don't last at all and they don't really change comfort just seal (it is a little better than silicone tips) and sound quality. EarphoneSolutions has a sale right now where you get 20% off almost everything including W2, W3 with Fiio E6 amp included, and W4. I was gonna buy W3 but I think I'm gonna buy customs and attempt to get out of this headphone madness for awhile (hopefully longer than 2 weeks like the last time i tried 

).
Quote:

 
Yeah I think that the westone 4 would be TF10 plus plus cause for the westone 4 I could buy the TF10 and a HD25. How much of a size difference anyway do you think it is?
Also do you know anything about foam tips? Does it really make IEMs more comfortable?
 
Thanks

 

 

[koonhua90]

I am moving away from portable audio nowadays, but I will just offer some advice.
 
You really don't want to plop down a lot of money into your first IEM, if you did not have one before. This is unless, you are totally sure of the sound of the earphone, and you are sure that the earphone will fit you and will be comfortable. Most people sound like they don't care about fit, but in the long term when their ears start to hurt they will realize it. 
 
It'd be better to start with cheaper IEM, preferably something less than $200, unless you are filthy rich. If you are, then I would suggest you to take a look at Average Joe's thread on custom iem comparison, rather than spending money on universal iems, which may or may not sound and fit the best.
 
The benefit of starting somewhere cheap is because if you don't like it, you can sell it somewhere else, and you won't lose much money. Well, you can do that with $300 and $400 iems too, but personally I don't think it'd be wise to spend so much unless you are totally sure about the earphone, inside out. How it looks, how it fits, impedance, sensitivity, isolation, comfort, overall tonality, timbre, soundstage, imaging, etc. Those are some of the things that one should at least know a little bit before buying a high price iem.
 
You have to know what music you like, what genre, and what do you want in an earphone. The ljokerl's thread should be useful, scroll down to the end of the page, and you should see a simplified list of earphones.
 
And unless you have all your music in lossless format, and you are using some headphone with high impedance/low sensitivity, an amp wouldn't help much. But since you have the Sennheiser, the amp should give better control, especially near the low frequency.
 
For absolute isolation and portability, in my opinion iems would do better than headphones. For absolute sound quality and comfort, full size headphone would do better, for me at least.
 
Just remember, if you have not used some of the in ear monitors before, you will need some time to get used to the occlusion (sound of you walking and breathing when you wear iem, etc), and the way it sticks into your ear canal. And I know a lot of people do not like it or they get uncomfortable easily, including myself.
 
Two years I have been pursuing sound quality and comfort, from cheap earphone to the JH16, today it still cannot satisfy me, in terms of comfort. I always stayed away from headphones, but ironically my journey led me back to them.
 
 

 

[miow]

 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gunner1905 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Anyway, I think I've narrowed down my choices of IEMs between: Shure SE535, Westone 4, Sennheiser IE8, UE TF10, Head direct RE0, EarSonics SM3. That's a long shortlist, and it seems I need more to do more research, and get more suggestions.
I even still have to choose between IEMs or headphones.
 

Definitely Earsonics SM3. Even better than that, Westone UM3X RC (better bass, better vocals, instrument separation second to none). However the SM3's have the best treble I've heard. The realism of percussion instruments is unbeatable by any other universal IEM. If jazz is your thing, then SM3. If you hear mostly pop/rock, Metal, etc, go UM3X RC, since they have more body, more energy, are more involving. I'm not saying the UM3X RC treble is not good, it is indeed very good, but the SM3's is even better, more transparent, with a more realistic timber (however lacks a bit of bass and it is somewhat muddy).
 
Don't take me wrong, but the RE0's there is a complete joke.  
 

 

[gunner1905]

Quote:

I'm not too sure what you're asking here, if your asking how much bigger the TF10 is then the westones than I can say that a single side of the TF10 was as big as maybe three westone 2 but the westone 3/4 (they are same size) is supposed to be a little bigger than the W2 so maybe two W3 fit one TF10. As for foam tips I personally dislike complys because they don't last at all and they don't really change comfort just seal (it is a little better than silicone tips) and sound quality. EarphoneSolutions has a sale right now where you get 20% off almost everything including W2, W3 with Fiio E6 amp included, and W4. I was gonna buy W3 but I think I'm gonna buy customs and attempt to get out of this headphone madness for awhile (hopefully longer than 2 weeks like the last time i tried 

).
 

 
What I meant plus plus is that the price of the westone is plus plus 

, But is the TF10 really that big? Also, what do you mean that the foam tips don't last, does it break like after a month of usage?
I went to the Earphone Solutions page and the westone is discounted but the price on amazon is still cheaper ($387).