smodtactical
Headphoneus Supremus
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I heard the ac protos amp has a headphone out.
RAAL 1995 headphones, Magna and Immanis
- Thread starter Aleksandar R.
- Start date
Sounds like a great event. Reading the other thread of yours, I am under the impression you guys may get some new Schitt crap showing up? That would be very interesting to learn about, especially with the new RAAL phones.
I think I am going to be using the Yggi+ Less Is More (LIM) DAC on the CA-1a and most likely the Immanis. I recently got the last Yggi+ OG and like it on my other system and also with my VM-1a. I am also curious how the Yggi+ More Is Better (MIB) sounds in comparison to the LIM. There is an "upgrade" path from the LIM to the MIB. If you get any of those 2 DACs then I would love to know what you guys think.
Will do! You're also welcome to join us. . .
Anyhow, these are outside my range anyway, but Helene has potential based on whatever I've heard so far on Youtube. but with the purchase of Immanis, I feel like my wallet is gonna be hurting for a long time with all the setup changes I'm gonna be doing, though, who knows, maybe my current setup is good enough, some people here just trash the Holo stack and think it's all about price. Higher is better, ya know
Best in Class? Or are there better chains, if you could mention in your review what you felt is the best option (at least for you) out of what you've heard.
nfandi
500+ Head-Fier
It’s best to ignore the people who trash things like the Holo products. All that matters is what you think. I don’t mind people saying they don’t like certain products or they don’t meet their preferences, that’s fine, but trashing things which are clearly very good value for money shows a lack of something between the ears. Paying for a named brand is not always a better route; the higher price might just signify they like to make higher profits, or their costs are far higher. Price is an indicator but it doesn’t necessarily indicate something is better, maybe it indicates that some people are more gullible than others.
I went from a $15k DAC to the Yggi+ LIM which I liked more. Got a great speaker with the savings.
Yesterday I sold a Playback Designs Stream-IF streamer for $2250, bought it used for $2k. That streamer is the same as a new Nagra unit at $5k that is released.
That streamer works on the $15k and $24k Playback Designs DACs. Nagra has LESSER versions of the boards in the 2 Playback Designs DACs and they retail for $70k. They get the boards from PBD and Andreas K of PBD has said in an interview he keeps the best for his company.
Chew on that. Just makes me laugh about spending more money.
I sold the Stream-IF because I like the Yggi+ so much that I did not see the point of marginal potential increase in sonics of a PBD DAC. I will spend the money on the Immanis.
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fidgeraldo
Headphoneus Supremus
Can you explain/describe to me what bad bass is, please.
And does HD800S have bad bass, too?
Cheers!
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I strongly disagree to that statement 
HD800S is decent on bass actually, though not on the same level as some dynamics and planars obviously.
Are we just spending time in this thread looking for more impressions about Magna/Immanis whilst talking off-topic?
OK, I'll bite on the bad bass question.
IMO, there are two ways to produce bass. First, produce the bass fundamental tone. For a 30Hz tone, the wavelength is about 32 feet. In other words, you need at least a 32 foot dimension in your listening space to produce a 30Hz tone. Obviously in the case of headphones, this is physically impossible for what is for all intents and purposes a midrange driver in a tiny earcup or IEM.
Second, produce bass through compression and decompression of the air inside a listening space. This is how conventional headphones and most loudspeakers produce a bass wave. IMO, and this is just my impression, this compression and rarefaction of air inside an earcup does not sound realistic to me.
So again, just IMO, most headphones produce too much bass, but most people like this effect, perhaps because we have become conditioned to too much bass. The epitome of too much bass is the underdamped Helmholtz Resonator bass found in those cars that boom at a single frequency no matter the recording. How those who do this can stand this overwhelming, tubby, underdamped, one-note bass is beyond my comprehension but some like this. Not me. I find myself from time to time inside a club at wedding receptions or the like with those sound systems with overwhelming bass where the rest of the sonic spectrum seems just an afterthought and where everything sounds the same after a while and becomes fatiguing.
The most realistic bass I have heard is with the SR-1b. In college I had a roommate that played the electric bass and in my estimation the SR-1b is the most realistic reproduction of bass. Many feel the SR-1b has too little bass, i.e. not enough bass weight, dynamics, and extension. I would argue that it has the best bass speed and pitch definition, i.e. bass quality over quantity. Perhaps this is because it does not employ earcups but hangs outside the ears as a nearfield ear monitor.
I haven't heard the Sennheiser HD800 or HD800S, nor the Magnas or Immanis, so I cannot comment on their bass.
IMO, there are two ways to produce bass. First, produce the bass fundamental tone. For a 30Hz tone, the wavelength is about 32 feet. In other words, you need at least a 32 foot dimension in your listening space to produce a 30Hz tone. Obviously in the case of headphones, this is physically impossible for what is for all intents and purposes a midrange driver in a tiny earcup or IEM.
Second, produce bass through compression and decompression of the air inside a listening space. This is how conventional headphones and most loudspeakers produce a bass wave. IMO, and this is just my impression, this compression and rarefaction of air inside an earcup does not sound realistic to me.
So again, just IMO, most headphones produce too much bass, but most people like this effect, perhaps because we have become conditioned to too much bass. The epitome of too much bass is the underdamped Helmholtz Resonator bass found in those cars that boom at a single frequency no matter the recording. How those who do this can stand this overwhelming, tubby, underdamped, one-note bass is beyond my comprehension but some like this. Not me. I find myself from time to time inside a club at wedding receptions or the like with those sound systems with overwhelming bass where the rest of the sonic spectrum seems just an afterthought and where everything sounds the same after a while and becomes fatiguing.
The most realistic bass I have heard is with the SR-1b. In college I had a roommate that played the electric bass and in my estimation the SR-1b is the most realistic reproduction of bass. Many feel the SR-1b has too little bass, i.e. not enough bass weight, dynamics, and extension. I would argue that it has the best bass speed and pitch definition, i.e. bass quality over quantity. Perhaps this is because it does not employ earcups but hangs outside the ears as a nearfield ear monitor.
I haven't heard the Sennheiser HD800 or HD800S, nor the Magnas or Immanis, so I cannot comment on their bass.
fidgeraldo
Headphoneus Supremus
Yup, I was thinking more in general. Because it is questionable what a good bass is for different people.
As you have mentioned, is it a slam, volume or texture and tonality?
I asked because, it's a free way...it's not one way.
I own HD800S, and the bass is beautiful. As you mentioned (not for 800S), it sounds beautiful and natural to me.
I haven't listened to HD800, unfortunately.
Often, people want a slam (as a definition) and say bass is bad if there isn't a slam,
but I don't need a slam in every pair of headphones that I have; quite the contrary.
Cheers!
It think it makes sense that people want "too much" bass in a headphone because headphones need to compensate for the fact you can't feel the bass like a speaker/subwoofer. So there's an issue where most people probably need a few dB bass boost from headphones to get a perceived flat bass response.
This also gets into the difference between bass slam/impact and bass SPL. SR1 has good bass SPL but doesn't slam.
Immanis and Magna both slam, and they slam very well.
My post was regarding both HD800 and HD800S. They are bascially the same headphone, the HD800S just has a reduced treble spike. I had the HD800S, and yes, the bass is bad for its price. The bass texture is good, yes, but anything more than that is not what this headphone is going for. The mids are also not that great to be honest. Treble is very good and extremely detailed, but that spike can be a nuisance. For me the only things that headphone has going for it are the huge soundstage, which i feel is inflated and not natural, because every instrument sounds very small, it's like a galaxy where you see small blinking stars, but they all are so tiny compared to the empty room they are placed it. The second and for me best thing about the HD800S was the imaging, it was so laser accurate which i haven't heard before.
Exactly what i'm saying. Decent in a bubble, but for the price it's really just bad. Listen to a different (popular) headphone in that 1500-2000€ price range. For its pricepoint of 1800€ the HD800S cannot compete in terms of bass (and mids in my opinion) to any of its competitors. Hifiman, Focal, Audeze, etc, grab a headphone for ~1800€ from them and compare the bass. I didn't want to derail the thread because this is NOT about the HD800S. Go to the HD800S thread.
I doubt it, but i will see about that myself. You're not only saying "well", but "very well". Have you listened to them and compared them to a headphone that we all know actually slams? In that pricepoint? I'm not talking about an HD6XX, i'm talking about something in that 7-10k€+ region. I checked a few posts of yours, and you seem to be a Stax guy, everytime i listened to any of them at shows, i just immediately take them of when something is playing that needs actual dynamics. I remember listening to the X9000 and was completely underwhelmed when i heard "We will rock you" by Queen on them, it sounded completely dead (same as DCA btw). That does not mean they sound bad in general, they just sound bad to me. For me personally, i need way better dynamics to enjoy my 70% rock & metal library.
In contrary, i don't need more details than a Susvara, which i'm sure the Immanis has, but if it sacrifices too much (dynamics), it's a no-go for me.
Deep bass is about extension and rumble, upper bass is more about dynamics and slam. Both of these are separate from bass texture. I would even argue that a perfectly well driven Susvara is only good at slam, not exceptional, while its bass texture (that's the realism part which people say the Immanis is really good at) is a 10/10, its dynamics (that's the fun factor) can't be more than an 8/10 on any gear. A 1266 / Utopia / Valkyria runs circles around it in that regard.
From what i've read the Immanis never was intented to be the dynamic bass slam monster, which is probably not even possible with a ribbon headphone. The guy that makes them even warns people to EQ the bass.
From all i read, the Immanis is a step up from a Stax headphones, but can't touch a planar in the dynamic department, but it has the better technical aspects in comparison.
In the end i will need to hear it myself (in my room, with my music, with a comparison to the Susvara), reading impressions only can get me so far. Also people tend to cope about their expensive gear they just bought (that's why buying and selling used is so desirable, it eliminates that factor to a degree).
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I also own the original Utopia, it does have great bass when called for, I was trying to find the specs for the excursion parameter, found something being said in a hebrew review of them, apparently its excursion parameter goes to 4.5mm, which is just .5 more than 4mm from Magna/Immanis. Magna/Immanis being the supposedly faster headphones (Some said they are the fastest on the market as ribbons) means they can push more air faster, wouldn't that translate to better dynamics?
No need to make it personal, looking down on my opinion like I lack experience or something... But if we want to discuss that, I'm currently sitting within a meter of Susvara, Utopia, Verite Open, SR-X9000, SR-007MK1, CA-1a, and Expanse. And listen to them all on 300W monoblocks. I've heard both Magna and Immanis. I've also heard, but do not own 1266 and Valkyria.
Oh and I own the most bass heavy headphone in the world, JVC SZ2000, which has an actual subwoofer built in.
So if you're doubting me, it seems there's nobody in the world you wouldn't doubt and you need to just listen for yourself.
Strange behavior criticizing my opinion when it seems you've never even heard them. Can we try to stick to talking about the headphone we're excited about and less judging if people are qualified to share an opinion?
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