[jrodefeld]

Hi everyone,
 
I'm new here but I have recently gotten interested in high end headphones and the "audiophile" world, so to speak.  I have looked on these forums a few times for suggestions about products I should buy.  About a month ago, I purchased a pair of Etymotic ER4P earphones with the P to S converter.  For the price I was willing to spend they seemed like far and away the best deal in IEMs.  I do love the sound of these, but I was wondering if anyone could give me some tips about how to get the best sound from these earphones, since their seems to be many different tweaks and customizations people have done for the Etymotic earphones.  I have a few specific questions, but first I thought I'd tell you what I am using at the moment:
 
Etymotic ER4P earphones with "spacer" mod (http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/418406/brilliant-er4-tip-mod/15)
HeadRoom Total Bithead Portable Amplifier
32 GB iPod Touch 3rd Generation
 
I have both the Shure "Olives" and the Comply Tx-100 tips.
 
All music is lossless.
 
Thats it for now.  I'm sure this setup is fairly modest compared to what many are listening to, but for portability, it sounds pretty good.
 
I am currently looking at the A Pure Sound replacement cable and other ideas to improve the sound even further (though I really don't want to spend $200).  Anyway, a few questions I have about these earphones:
 
1.  Many on here talk about the "accuracy" of these earphones and how they have great potential in that the sound can improve dramatically with better amplifiers, cable mods and other tweaks and improvements.  Lets say I bought the APS cable, better amp or any and all other "tweaks" I can do, how good can the sound get on these IEMs?  How would a recabled, properly driven ER4 compare to the best of Ultimate Ears, Shure or the competition (even the high end, $500-$1000)?  The reason I ask is that I have read some comments on here from people that prefer a recabled, tweaked ER4 to virtually all other IEMs on the market.  I just want to get an idea of the potential of the Etymotic earphones.
 
2.  How can I improve the bass on these earphones?  Obviously I knew from the start that these are bass shy, but I wanted the extreme detail these provide.  I have heard that amps with Bass Boost features (not the BitHead) can have a dramatic improvement.  Also, the types of tips matter, apparently.  The APS cable seems to improve bass as well.  Then there is the iPod equalizer settings.  For those that own Etymotic earphones, what have you done to improve the bass response?  What would you suggest?
 
3.  I know the Total Bithead is not the best portable amp on the market.  Would I notice a dramatic improvement in sound quality by switching to a better amplifier?  I would certainly not want to spend more than $250.  If so, what portable amplifier would you suggest to drive the ER4s optimally?  
 
4.  I would be interested in the APS cable, but I cannot spend that much.  Are there any other aftermarket cables I can buy that would be cheaper?  Is there something in the range of $100 to $150?  Or. is it possible to buy one used?  Is it worth it?
 
I appreciate the great resource this forum is for everything related to headphones, and I appreciate all the responses I will receive on this topic.  Like I said, I am new to the world of "high end" audio and I am looking for ways to maximize my enjoyment of the Etymotic earphones.

 

[7swell]

I'm not sure if it is compatible with the 3rd gen ipod touch but see if you can get the EQu app on it. You can read a review on it here: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/529691/review-equ-parametric-eq-for-the-ipodtouch-iphone-ipad
 
As for an amp, you might want to look at the headstage arrow. It has a bass boost option that would help improve the er4p's low end. Its footprint is also similar to the ipod touch so that is another plus. I'm not sure what difference the APS cable will make but just know that usually the cable is the last component to upgrade. I was looking at getting one before, but mostly because it offered better ergonomics.

 

[jrodefeld]

Thanks for the reply.  I am checking out the EQu app at the moment.  Do you know of anyone who can suggest eq settings for an earphone like the Etymotic?  
 
About the amp, how does the Total Bithead compare to other, under $250 amps?  Aside from the option of a bass boost, is the difference in sound quality great?  I could always sell the one I have, but to my ears it sounds pretty good.  
 
I really want to know more about the APS cable.  Some say it makes a huge difference in SQ.  Others say there is no way a cable could have any perceptible difference and all perceived improvement is merely imaginary.  I don't know what to believe but certainly I would want a significant improvement if I were to spend nearly $200.  Can anyone else comment on the SQ effects of the APS cable?  Or, for that matter, ANY aftermarket IEM cable.
 
Is there anyone else who can or is willing to comment on my original post?  I would appreciate it.

 

[jrodefeld]

Anyone else?  I would really appreciate the input of people who have the ER-4 earphones on tips on how to get the most out of these.  I know from reading on here that many have used Etymotics and I could really use some suggestions on how to get the most out of my investment.
 
Refer to my original post, but specifically, what would you do to improve the sound quality (not that they are lacking) or drive them optimally for portable use?  Should I upgrade the amp, recable the phones, or try different tips?  Also, suggestions for improving bass and/or providing a bit more warmth to the sound would be greatly appreciated.
 
I hope I can get more than one reply (I do appreciate it 7swell), because I am still learning about high fi earphones and figure this is the best resource there is.  Thanks.

 

[kmhaynes]

My setup is the HF5 combined with iBasso T4 amp with bass boost coming from Sansa Fuze v2 with Rockbox installed.  Rockbox has a very clean equalizer that when used moderately can add some warmth and bass to the HF5, as does the T4 bass boost.  Don't be afraid to use moderate amounts of EQ that do not introduce any noticeable distortion.
 
For tips, I also use the Shure "Olives" (black foam).  They are super comfy and don't have to be inserted as deeply as the Ety 3-flange tips, so the sense of soundscape is better.  To me, the deeper the tip goes, the soundstage flattens out.  My ear canals are fairly small, so I use the small size and they completely conform to the shape of my ear canal for super isolation.

 

[cardozo]

I honestly do not believe that is possible to modify these headphones to sound better. They are already excellent in a way which they were produced. What about the cables, I've read somewhere around here that are manufactured with the best components possible, so I do not see much reason in messing with them.

I use my ER4P (with or without the P to S adapter) only with Comply Foams and with the experience I have with these headphones, they like lots of power. I think the easiest way for you would be investing in a good source (Cowon J3 is great for this headphone) and lossless files. Perhaps this setup works well with the amp you already own.

This phone is a reference for me, because of its tonal correction, clarity and ability to represent the musical atmosphere/environment. However, it is not a headphone for every day use, because you can get tired after some time. I use it mostly when I want a serious listening, like listening to an entire CD or discography. For the other moments, when I listen in a relaxed way, I put the player in shuffle mode and the choice always falls on my Shure SE530.

I do not think I helped you a lot... )
 
Cheers,
 
Peter

 

[afbug]

I don't know if it will work for you but for me, I've the edge of the filters/tip as deep in my ears as possible. My ears are not very big, so I used a triflange, trimmed the largest 2 flanges and stem to fit the nozzle. So what I've got is a small tip with a shorten stem. This brings the edge of the filters/tip right to the rim of the opening of the flange. With this tip, I can insert the ER4 deep fight into my ears. Only the cable stress relieve and cables are sticking out of my ears.
 
I think the key to good bass is to insert them as deep as possible. Only the cable stress relieve and cables should be sticking out of your ears. Try experimenting with several types of tips.  should be sticksh

 

[sc53]

I have owned the 4P's for several years and a couple of weeks ago also bought the HF5's for comparison. I would not experiment with aftermarket cables, but I certainly would try another portable amp. For $200-250 you can find Ray Samuels' amps used in the classifieds; I love Ray's amps with my Ety's. I don't need any additional bass boost, but if you are a basshead you might go for an amp with the boost switch. I think the cable used with the HF5's is much nicer than the original 4P cable.  It doesn't get kinked or twisted and there is less of a microphonic problem when working out at the gym. I don't know how aftermarket cables would compare in this regard but it's something to consider if you are going to be moving while listening to Ety's.

 

[jrodefeld]

Quote:

I honestly do not believe that is possible to modify these headphones to sound better. They are already excellent in a way which they were produced. What about the cables, I've read somewhere around here that are manufactured with the best components possible, so I do not see much reason in messing with them.

I use my ER4P (with or without the P to S adapter) only with Comply Foams and with the experience I have with these headphones, they like lots of power. I think the easiest way for you would be investing in a good source (Cowon J3 is great for this headphone) and lossless files. Perhaps this setup works well with the amp you already own.

This phone is a reference for me, because of its tonal correction, clarity and ability to represent the musical atmosphere/environment. However, it is not a headphone for every day use, because you can get tired after some time. I use it mostly when I want a serious listening, like listening to an entire CD or discography. For the other moments, when I listen in a relaxed way, I put the player in shuffle mode and the choice always falls on my Shure SE530.

I do not think I helped you a lot... )
 
Cheers,
 
Peter

So you prefer these earphones to the Shure SE530?  The thing that impresses me most about these phones is that they can be had for about $180, yet many people prefer them to earphones costing $500 and up.  What is your opinion on how they compare to IEMs of ANY price range?  Are multi driver IEMs better?
 
I have known that Audiophiles can be a little "crazy" at times, so do you think that those that claim huge SQ improvements with the APS cable or aftermarket cables are fooling themselves?  I don't know who to believe.
 
One other thing, what do you think of the Total Bithead amp?  Its fairly popular but certainly not high end by any means.  Do you think I could do significantly better for under $250?  
 
Thanks a lot for the reply.  I am certainly very happy with these earphones, but I would like to see if further improvements are possible.  

 

[MR.X]

If you are using the er4 with an S adapter and an amp NO upgrade is going to give a huge improvement in SQ. Every upgrade on them is going to give you a discernible improvement and whether it is worth it or not is really for you to decide.
 
The er4 have a unique hyper-detailed sound signature which if you like, you will prefer them over other more expensive earphones mid level earphones like SE530, Westone 3 etc, there is a reason why 2 decade old single armature earphone is still so popular. But comparing them to earphones that cost 1k is not really a fair comparison, those earphones have a much more detailed and neutral sound that the er4 cannot produce.
 
In your case I think the most improvement in SQ you can get is by using an APS cable, changing from one amp to the other isnt going to make much of a difference since they do not need an extra power to be driven and using a better more neutral amp is only going to bring out the sound signature of the er4 better.
 
You should check out the FS forums and pick up an APS cable for a cheaper price and try them.

 

[Xymordos]

I use the ER4P, and yeah, they're incredibly detailed and clear. Sometimes the mids and highs get too "in your face". My Fiio E7 didn't change them too much compared to my XB700. BUT. if you're using ER4B/S then you do need an amp. I use the Fiio E7 to power them.

 

[imackler]

I would love to hear more impressions on which amps pair well with ER4P/HF5.

 

[scytheavatar]

Quote:

So you prefer these earphones to the Shure SE530?  The thing that impresses me most about these phones is that they can be had for about $180, yet many people prefer them to earphones costing $500 and up.  What is your opinion on how they compare to IEMs of ANY price range?  Are multi driver IEMs better?
 
I have known that Audiophiles can be a little "crazy" at times, so do you think that those that claim huge SQ improvements with the APS cable or aftermarket cables are fooling themselves?  I don't know who to believe.
 
One other thing, what do you think of the Total Bithead amp?  Its fairly popular but certainly not high end by any means.  Do you think I could do significantly better for under $250?  
 
Thanks a lot for the reply.  I am certainly very happy with these earphones, but I would like to see if further improvements are possible.

There's nothing impressive here; the ER4p/4s has its own sound signature and there's very little IEMs out there that sounds similar and can actually be considered a better version of an ER4p. Almost all the other IEMs will sound like basshead garbage compared to the ER4p, but then there are many people out there who can't stand the ER4p so it's not true to say that the ER4p is better than those Westone 3, SE530 etc. It's all a question of preference. I used to own a ER4p for 3 years and I have since changed to a DBA-02, and IMHO the DBA-02 is a better version of the ER4p. Once you hear the improvements in the bass and soundstage you'll never want to go back to the ER4p. And the DBA-02 is even cheaper than the ER4p.
 
Portable amps are a waste of money; IEMs are built for mp3 players and never require much current. The ER4s will need a portable amp, but not the ER4p which is a big reason why the ER4p is IMHO a better choice from the ER4s. Instead of a portable amp get yourself a proper DAP like a Cowon J3.

 

[cardozo]

Here we go!

I do not think the ER4 (in this post, the reference will be always ER4S, rather than ER4P) is better or worse than the SE530. When comparing something so different, we need to find a point of convergence, and for me, is simply pleasure. And in terms of pleasure, they are in the same level, although I believe that the Ety has a greater number of qualities that the Shure.

The ER4 is an accurate equipment of musical reproduction and If I were a sound engineer, I would use it without any problem in my work. Already the SE530 is a great headphone for the fun, able to create an immersive atmosphere, bringing the music's soul to the ears of the listener. This headphone has a dark signature, is colorful and wonderfully unbalanced.

With the SE530, you listen to music dancing, shaking your head and snapping his fingers. With the ER4, you listen to music sitting, stand and with your mouth open. You become completely immersed in what you are listening, because the huge amount of information that your brain needs to process.

I usually say that concepts like soundstage, separation of instruments, sound signature or any other technical terms do not apply to ER4. It simply reproduces, as faithfully as possible, which was recorded. Using this headphone is like being physically present in the studio with the musicians and it is perfectly possible to identify the position of each one and even the size of the recording studio. Furthermore, the tonal setting is perfect, where a guitar sounds like a real guitar, drums idem, etc, etc, etc..

Returning to the topic, I continue to argue that nothing should be done with his cables. Besides, what exactly needs to be changed in this headphone? Which defects needs to be repaired? What feature needs to be expanded? It is very important to identify these points, because otherwise, we started to shoot in the dark, often with disappointing results and with great spend of money.

Following this theory, you can use an amp more "hot" to give more "body" to the sound, softening the treble and giving bass emphasis. If you want a more analityc sound, a player with great detail and a neutral amplifier should be used.

Finally, as already said, this headphone like plenty of power, with quality. Want to do a test? Connect it to your stereo desktop and notice how it grows with the increased power.

Ah! Before I forget: the only change I would make in my ER4 would be the manufacture of a custom mold or a custom tip.
 
Obs: It's unfair to compare this headphone with others of $1,000.00. But is the difference in quality worth the $800.00?

Enjoy!
 
Cheers,
 
Peter

 

[cardozo]

What you're saying, the DBA-02 would be a version with more punch and soul that the ER4? Interesting.

The pity is that I'm more than a month waiting for my DBA-02 to arrive at my home... Im very tired with this situation.
 
Cheers,
 
Peter
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scytheavatar /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
...
 
I used to own a ER4p for 3 years and I have since changed to a DBA-02, and IMHO the DBA-02 is a better version of the ER4p. Once you hear the improvements in the bass and soundstage you'll never want to go back to the ER4p. And the DBA-02 is even cheaper than the ER4p.
 
...