[pataburd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigjppop /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've started on the tube rolling adventure with my 337 and so far have been pleased. I listened to it stock for a week or so and enjoyed getting to know the sound signature of this amp. The first tubes I rolled in were a pair of NOS Tung Sol 5998's and I've been listening to them for about a week. I didn't detect a HUGE difference in between the 5998's and the stock power tubes, but te 5998's did have a slightly blacker background and I believe added a little more space around vocals and instruments. I got them for about 60 bucks shipped from Antique Electronic Supply (per Skylab's rec) and believe them to be worth that. I would have been disappointed had I paid the 120+ that many dealers are charging for these tubes because I don't think they make $120 worth of improvement. I still have some RCA 6AS7Gs that I bought from Skylab that I haven't tried yet, but will soon. The next tubes in (still with the 5998's in the power slot) were some 6SJ7GT Tung Sol mesh plates (again per Skylab's rec) are a little problematic. They've only been in for 30 minutes, but there is a definite hum that was not there when running the stock Chinese driver tubes. I'm hoping this will disappear with some use. The hum does not change when I switch tubes, unplug cans, unplug source, turn up/down voume, etc. It is a constant hum in the background that is present with nothing connected and the volume turned all the way down. Its still too early to make any comments on the sound of this tube, especially with the hum. The next set I tried were some of the red RCA 5693's and straight out of the box they were dead silent and really sounded great. The add a very pleasent richness/harmonic to the midbass/midrange spectrum. I especially notice this on accoustic tracks (James Taylor's One Man Band CD in particular) and on orchastral tracks. The tubes really add some nice body and rich flavor to James' Baritone voice and Yo Yo Ma's Cello. These tubes only have about 30 minutes on them as well so we'll see what happens to them with a few hours of use. Overall, I think these red RCA's are a great tube for this amp. They can be had for SUPER cheap and everyone seems to sell them. They seem to go in lots of 5-10 on ebay all the time. My experience with tube rolling in the 337 helps to solidify my feelings on tube rolling. Nice tubes can help refine the sound you already have, but if you don't like the stock sound, I don't think any amount of tube rolling will change that. I also think I'm going to have to cap my my upper limit on tube spending. The 337 tubes are not a lot of money (which I love) but I really don't think I could bring myself to spend $300, $400, even $500 on sometimes a single tube. Regardless, may the tube rolling adventure continue!

BJB,
Keep the 6SJ7 mesh plates running for about 8-10 hours. If the hum is "balanced" between the two tubes, it should diminish over that time, then completely disappear. Some tubes--I am assuming yours are NOS--need to be run in like that before they quiet down.

If the hum is prominent on one side and doesn't tend to lessen over time, it may be a defective tube. When I have had driver tube humming with the 337, it tends to be more pronounced with the Tung-Sol 5998s in the power sockets.

It's pleasant to hear that you like the RCA 5693 "Red Hots". Personally, I do not prefer this tube over any of my current drivers: Kuhltube CAA, JAN Philips 6SN7WGT, Sylvania VT-116A, nor the 7C7. Maybe it's a psychosomatic response to the metal jacket on my part, but these tubes sound like just that to me: metallic and ringy.

As for me, I have different listening/tube preferences than most others on this thread. For example, I prefer either the Svetlana 6H13C or the Mullard 6080 to the Tung-Sol 5998. In addition, I do not find the sonic character of the 337 to my general liking (which is why I currently have it posted on the FS threads). To me, and particularly given my headphones of choice (K501 and D5000), the Darkvoice sounds a touch hard/cold, errs slightly on the side of being overly analytical and ultimately lacks musical involvement. Granted, the 337 delivers gobs of power, throws a wide and well-ordered soundstage and looks pretty "cool," but it really hasn't floated my boat during its tenure in my system. Again, I think it's the 6SJ7 tube that makes this amp less, musically, than it could be.

Well, anyway: "Roll On"! : )
PAB

 

[Bigjppop]

Patrick:

You know where to turn if you want to get rid of some of those tubes you've got kicking around!

I have to say, the more I get involved in the Head-fi hobby, the more gear I buy, the more stuff I listen to, the more posts I read, etc... It's amazing how different the same thing can sound to different people. Ask 10 people how something sounds, you'll get 10 answers. I have to say, I'm glad its like that, it should be like that. It really just proves how important it is to hear things with your own ears before you make judgements.

Anyway, thanks for the tip on letting those tubes cook for a little while. The sound is balanced on both tubes so hopefully it will quiet down. I'll also try the mesh plate drivers with the RCA power tubes to see if that changes anything.

Like I said, let me know if you want to part with some of your tubes!

 

[Skylab]

nice post bigjppop! The TS 6SJ7GT will take 8-16 hours to quiet down, but quiet down they will. Good stuff!

 

[Bigjppop]

Thanks guys! I've been running the 6SJ7GT's for about 3 hours now and the hum has dropped by maybe 30%. I'll give them another 8 hrs and see what happens.

I've been listening to them, even with the hum, and I'll tell you, these mesh plates have a very unique sound. I don't know exactly how to describe it other than to say a lot of my music almost has a haunting quality to it with these tubes in the sockets.

These are definitely NOT the most accurate and clean tubes I've ever heard; they definitely have some coloration. That being said, that coloration, so far, is very pleasing. Haunting is the best word I've got to describe the sound. Very interesting tubes...

One more thing; my amp runs REALLY hot. The top plate of the amp is too hot to leave your hand on. Is that normal? I know PAB had mentioned using a fan to cool the amp; does everyone else's amp actually got hot to the touch? I can put my hand on it, but I've got to pull it away pretty quickly. In fact, I'm pretty sure I could cook an egg on it; it might be a little slow, but it woul cook. Normal?

 

[Gradofan2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigjppop /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks guys! I've been running the 6SJ7GT's for about 3 hours now and the hum has dropped by maybe 30%. I'll give them another 8 hrs and see what happens. I've been listening to them, even with the hum, and I'll tell you, these mesh plates have a very unique sound. I don't know exactly how to describe it other than to say a lot of my music almost has a haunting quality to it with these tubes in the sockets. These are definitely NOT the most accurate and clean tubes I've ever heard; they definitely have some coloration. That being said, that coloration, so far, is very pleasing. Haunting is the best word I've got to describe the sound. Very interesting tubes... One more thing; my amp runs REALLY hot. The top plate of the amp is too hot to leave your hand on. Is that normal? I know PAB had mentioned using a fan to cool the amp; does everyone else's amp actually got hot to the touch? I can put my hand on it, but I've got to pull it away pretty quickly. In fact, I'm pretty sure I could cook an egg on it; it might be a little slow, but it woul cook. Normal?

Yes... at least with my DV332.

I think the case is used as a heat sink to draw heat from the components.

I bought a very small personal fan at WalMart (Massey - all metal about 4") to cool my DV332. I also removed the bottom plate and elevated the amp a bit on some 1x2s cut to fit - to allow better air circulation. That kept the amp cool - which may help to prolong the life of the components. But... I doubt it makes much difference. The fan may be enough - if anything really is needed.

 

[pataburd]

I use a 6" Lasko desk fan to great advantage. The 337 stays cool to the touch. The 337 does make a good bun warmer, though, while its not being actively cooled by the "mighty" Lasko! : )

 

[pataburd]

Running the Darkvoice with JAN Sylvania VT-116A drivers (thanks again, Skylab) and Svetlana 6H13C power tubes: a very clean, detailed and balanced session with the D5000 and Paul Simon's "Graceland" (yet again!). I like the Svetlanas better than the 5998s; the former sound more balanced and natural to my ears. But in all fairness, I will swap in the Tung-Sols for a "second opinion."

Sold my Mullards to bigjbop earlier this week, anticipating the sale of the 337, but the sale fell through. Sigh!

It won't be too much longer before the Bada comes back fully modded. Sigh!

 

[Bigjppop]

And I'm looking forward to trying them when they arrive!

As an update, I've been running my Tung Sol mesh plates for about 10 hours and the hum is about 90% gone. I was worried, but its getting a lot better.

My overall opinion of the mesh plates is that they are a great sounding and unique tube. I stand by my early statement of a "haunting" sound going from them and I still like it. Compared to the RCA 5693 (with the Tung Sol 5998 still in the power slot) I believe the the mesh plates have a slightly recessed midbass and a little less top end sparkle. I think they really do well on male vocals.

The RCA's definitely have more top end sparkle and more clarity across the spectrum. I believe them to be a much more accurate tube than the Tung Sols but I'm still up in the air on which I prefer overall. Accuracy isn't always the most pleasing thing to the ear; sometimes my ears like a little coloration!

I've yet to try either with my RCA 6AS7Gs and I've got a couple of other sets of tubes on the way from Pataburd.

By the way, Pataburd, once I get a listen to what you already sent, I may take the rest of your 337 tubes off your hands as well. I'll square the shipping with you, one way or another!

 

[pataburd]

BJB,
Let us know your first impressions of the Mullard 6080s. : ) The JAN Philips 6SJ7WGT are fine drivers, too . . .
PAB

 

[pataburd]

Just had a satisfying session with the RCA 5693s and Svetlanas. Surprisingly quiet, spacious (although not the last word in unboundedness), with an easy, smooth, expansive midrange (though not as resolving as with, say, the Philips 6SJ7WGT) and nicely rounded bass (though not as punchy and articulate as with the Philips). Dire Straits' "Brothers and Arms" got two full spins tonight.

The last time I tried the "Red Hots" I had a less capable source (the stock Panasonic S47 vs. the EVS-modded Oppo 970HD) and the Tung-Sols in the power slots. The 5693s and the 6H13Cs have excellent synergy, IMHO.

Just sold the Tung-Sol 5998s. Bon voyage to the pair of them! I still like the Mullard 6080s and the Svetlanas better--much better, in fact. : )

 

[Skylab]

The Red Hots are very nice tubes, no doubt, if you get a pair that are not too microphonic. I still prefer the "meatier" sound of the 5998's and the mesh-plate 6SJ7GT, but it is a chunky, meaty, lush sound, no doubt. You get a brighter, crisper sound from the Mullard 6080 and the 5693 I am sure.

This is why tube rolling is so awesome - you can adjust the sound of the amp to your liking!

 

[pataburd]

Just had a surprisingly satisfying listen with the Sylvania VT-116A and the GE 6080--of all things(!), in league with the D5000.

Frankly, I was amazed at how much better the GEs seemed to sound since the last time I auditioned them (right around the time when the 337 first arrived). With the VT-116A/GE6080 combination the sound was very transparent, with very "snug," well defined bass, smacky drums and a spacious soundstage. Mind you, at more extreme volumes the treble, while rendered with plenty of detail, could get a bit surly; but at comfortable volumes, everything sounded balanced, clean and airy, in short, positively GE-ish.

What explains this apparent night-and-day difference with the GE 6080? Amp and/or tube "burn-in" over time? the worn/waning VT-116A? my having finally acclimated to the Darkvoice after three months? Ongoing "burn-in" with the Denon D5000?

Tonight, I'll try the Philips 6SJ7WGT with the GEs. The RCA 5693/GE6080 combination wasn't very pleasant, IMHO.

 

[pataburd]

Swapped out the Sylvania VT-116A for the Philips 6SJ7WGT.

These drivers bring more body and solidity to the overall sound, with purer, cleaner tones. The layout of the soundstage is absolutely pristine, with the DV337 exhibiting superb spatial control/management. Sense of depth and front-to-back layering was some of the best I've heard.

"Ride Across the River" from Dire Straits' Brothers in Arms, and "Sounds of Hatari" from a Henry Mancini classics collection were thoroughly enjoyable.

Wow! I didn't expect this kind of enjoyment with the GE 6080 in line, but I'll take it! : )

In addition, the D5000, while crossing the "magic 300-hour mark" and are opening up tremendously. Last night, between the Darkvoice, its tube compliment and the D5000, there was excellent synergy with each component playing to the others' strengths.

Time to have a second go-around with the RCA 6AS7G black plates. : )

 

[Skylab]

My original tube combo in the 337 for a LONG time was just that - RCA 6AS7G black plate and JAN-Phillips 6SJ7WGT. It's a GREAT combo, and it has the advantage also of being the easiest tube combo to acquire

 

[djork]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif My original tube combo in the 337 for a LONG time was just that - RCA 6AS7G black plate and JAN-Phillips 6SJ7WGT. It's a GREAT combo, and it has the advantage also of being the easiest tube combo to acquire

Aww.. i'm listening to this combination right now..