Precog's IEM Reviews & Impressions
Sep 23, 2020 at 8:46 PM Post #91 of 3,654
Wrapped up my summer finals, so I finally have some free time on my hands. I figured I should get this all down for posterity.

Preface: Terminology and Preferences

One of the most interesting (and vexing) things about this hobby to me is not necessarily its inherently subjective nature, but rather how it extends to audio terminology and the subsequent lack of structure. Nearly everyone has their own way of articulating what they hear, and most do so by making use of jargon. Jargon, mind you, that frequently has overlap with but also differs - sometimes significantly - from others' interpretations. Heck, you could be arguing with someone about what you guys hear versus each other, when in fact you both hear something very similar!

This presents a larger problem in itself; however, it’s not exactly a fixable one given, again, the subjective nature of this hobby. And of course, there are times when what you hear differs so significantly from someone else’s impressions that you simply have to chalk it up to a difference of opinion. But frankly, it’s disconcerting when you don’t have context for the words others are using. So in this post, my aim is to better explain what I’m hearing, how I define what I hear, and what I attribute it to. As usual, I need to disclaim that for all intents and purposes, these are just my opinions. You're totally welcome to agree or disagree with them as you see fit!

My Preferences

I mostly prioritized more balanced, resolving sound signatures. However, I’ve also found that these types of signatures generally don’t give me the “musicality” that I’m looking for, and in cases such as these, I tend to shift closer towards an L-shaped sound signature. I do like my bass, after all, and I'm not much of a treble-head. More decay in the bass is almost always a plus for me. I like my vocals to be on the slightly thicker side of things, and for them to be imaged further back on the soundstage - yeah, I'll talk about that below. I also enjoy a moderate amount of coloration, warmth to my IEMs.

I mainly rotate through about five genres of music including 1) Weeby K-Pop/J-Pop, 2) Pop, 3) Country music (yeah, bet you didn't see that one coming), 4) EDM, and 5) Instrumentals and music scores.

Terminology

Six months ago, I couldn’t have articulated what I was hearing with IEMs to save my life; after all, I was still a newcomer to the hobby. And hey, I still am. I think it’s important to recognize personal limitations, so neither will I be going crazy in-depth with these explanations, nor do I pretend to understand all the science behind what I hear. In general, I understand technical ability - what I'll be covering here - to be everything that is beyond the scope of what is reflected on a frequency response graph.

Bass texture: This is indicative of a sort of micro-splicing, fettering in the decay of the bass. To me, it’s part of what gives a good DD bass response that raw, natural quality. And like so, I find it to be one of the key distinctions between a DD and a BA driver; BAs often decay too quickly to produce it and have a “smoothed” quality to their bass. However, this isn’t a rule of thumb; there are certainly exceptions. The CA Solaris 2020 is a good example of a DD with very little texture; conversely, the 64 Audio U12t is an all-BA IEM that has a decent amount of texture. While it’s not the end-all, be-all for what defines a good bass response in my eyes, it is a large component of it.

BA timbre, note density, and timbral coloration: Ah man, timbre. There's different types of timbre that can generally be attributed to the pattern of decay. However, I tend to just group everything under a catch-all: Timbral coloration. The way I understand timbral coloration might also differ from canon. I like to simply visualize everything I’m hearing as being in a photo. Anything that obscures what I’m seeing, or rather, hearing, is what I define as “coloration”. But there’s good and bad coloration. Warm coloration can be a good thing and akin to throwing say, a lens filter, over the photo. It keeps things musical and from getting too clinical. IEMs that I think do this well include the 64 Audio Nio, Sony IER-M9, and Moondrop KXXS. Of course, you can also have excessive amounts of warmth, and in the context of my photo example, this would be like slapping on filter after filter. With IEMs, this can come at the expense of technicalities; the CA Solaris 2020 and Jomo Audio Trinity Brass exemplify this. On the other hand, the Vision Ears VE8 is a very warm IEM that circumvents this trait, but comes with the plain bad type of coloration: BA timbre.

I’m not going to debate whether BA timbre is a result of the frequency response or the driver type itself; what matters most to me is that it’s most definitely present. So what is it exactly? This is a type of “plastickiness” that presents itself with a lack of density to notes. Oftentimes, this is noticeable to my ears in bass responses. When you hear a drum kick or a drop smack down, you expect to hear some semblance of weight behind it. But BAs have a tendency to neuter this density as well as the decay function. I think a lot of people notice it in the treble too; this is important because treble extends a lot to the overall character of an IEM, ie. bright, warm, dark. And it doesn’t help that BAs tend to roll-off in the treble. Sometimes, this dives straight into smothered, BA “artifact” territory - the Thieaudio Legacy 3 and Empire Ears Wraith (yikes, this IEM is meme) are good examples of this. Other types of coloration can include "metallic" and "plucked" qualities to the timbre. The Dunu Luna is characterized by the former, the Audeze LCD-i4 by the later.

Coherency vs. Cohesiveness: I’ve used these interchangeably in the past, and I think it’s about time I set concrete definitions as I’ve mixed them up myself. Coherency is something that often comes up when talking about hybrid IEMs or IEMs that make use of separate driver types. Because one is mix-and-matching driver types, perfect coherency is very difficult to achieve. Like so, for me it represents being able to discern between different drivers handling their respective parts of the frequency response. Examples of IEMs with poor coherency include the 64 Audio Nio, the Vision Ears Elysium, and the Jomo Audio Trinity Brass.

Conversely, cohesiveness is a bit more of a catch-all term that represents how everything syncs together in practice. AKA, while I don’t quite know how to explain it exactly, dang, I really like something about this IEM - or vice versa. And here, I need to eat my words about the CA Solaris 2020. It is indeed very coherent for a hybrid in the sense that I can’t discern the separate driver types; however, I would not consider it cohesive at all. The textureless bass, gritty midrange, and sparkly treble are all over the place and impress the notion of something less than refined - hence it lacks cohesiveness to my ears.

Imaging: There's a lot to talk about here; I see this thrown around hand-in-hand with soundstage often. As I understand it, though, imaging is how an IEM’s two channels create a three-dimensional sense of space, shaping the “room” around you. Thus, soundstage is actually a derivative of imaging. IEMs that are able to shape said room are what I qualify as being “holographic”; the Campfire IEMs and the Sony IER-M9 are good examples. Personally, I also extend imaging to a couple of other points:

1) Positional cues. This represents the clarity - not to be confused with resolution - with which one is able to discern where specific instruments are coming from locationally on the stage. Most top-tier IEMs have very good positional cues even if I would not consider them to have holographic imaging or the following point, projection.

2) Projection or diffusal capability. This one is a little trickier, and represents the amount of distance a transducer is able to perceptually create between the stage and oneself. To an extent, this goes hand-in-hand with soundstage size. But for me, this often ties itself with vocal placement. IEMs that image the vocals further back are able to create a greater sense of depth; the 64 Audio U12t and Etymotic ER2XR are prime examples of this. I would not, however, go so far as to say either has particularly holographic imaging or even great imaging at that, particular the ER2XR. The ER2XR is very narrow in its staging and the U12t lacks soundstage height to my ears. Conversely, IEMs I would consider to project vocals poorly include the Sony IER-M9, qdc Anole VX, and Etymotic ER3XR. All of which have that "in-your-head" effect - for vocals specifically - to my ears, despite having decent stage size in the VX's case. You’ll also note that I do consider the IER-M9 to have holographic imaging; these are, again, distinct components of imaging to me.

Macro-dynamics: These are the minute decibel shifts in a recording and how an IEM scales them. Think of riding a roller-coaster for example. You want to move quickly, but you also want to hit all those build-ups, peaks, and free-falls, or the fun is lost. IEMs that do this well include the DUNU Luna, 64 Audio U12t, and Moondrop Blessing 2. Most BA IEMs are indeed quite fast, but I find they fail to scale these shifts, resulting in something that I call “compression”. Examples of IEMs that I would consider to be compressed to varying extents include the CA Andromeda 2020, qdc Anole VX, and Apple Airpods Pro (to make a point that this isn’t limited to just BA IEMs).

Resolving capability: For me this is a joint term that takes into account pure resolution, layering capability, and detail retrieval.

1) Pure resolution is the nature of how crisp a note is, how cleanly it is articulated. This (and resolving capability as a whole) generally goes hand-in-hand with transient speed; that is to say, an IEM’s attack function. In general, BAs tend to be quicker than their DD counterparts; IEMs with a quicker attack are thus able to better flesh out notes. This is not at all a concrete rule or necessarily a good thing, however. Being too fast can result in an unpleasant grittiness to notes - the Fearless Audio S8P’s midrange for example - or being straight up fatiguing like the qdc Anole VX’s transients (to my ears) despite having high levels of resolution. Then you have IEMs like the Sony IER-Z1R and M9 which seem to be slower yet have surprisingly good resolution.

2) Layering capability is essentially the equivalent of separation, and it has some overlap with positional cues. Basically, do instruments ever jumble or smear? IEMs with more open soundstages and "air" between notes generally do this better for obvious reasons. The CA Andromeda 2020, Audeze LCD-i4, and qdc Anole VX all excel at this. However, some IEMs with smaller stages like the 64 Audio U12t and Dunu Luna are also quite good at this.

3) Detail retrieval is a bit different from these other two terms, and simply reflects an IEM’s capacity to, well, force hammer out smaller details in a track and pull them to the forefront of the sound. Pretty self-explanatory I think.

Wrap-Up

Ok, that's all for now, as I wrote way more than I expected to! These are working definitions, and I'll likely adjust them in the future as my understanding develops or more nuances pop-up. Hopefully you guys find this helpful, as I know I've thrown around some of these terms before without much context. Heck, I don't even know if I fully understood the context myself at times, and I had to do some thinking on how I wanted to explain some of this stuff. Let me know if ya got any questions too.

Great read. You really should consider as a side project from school writing a book encompassing all terminology/jargon used and its proper explanation. Frankly, given your admitted newness to the hobby, your post is impressive, and your writing style which articulates complex subjects simply is a wonderful way to communicate. I’ll definitely buy a copy! 👍
 
Sep 24, 2020 at 4:59 AM Post #92 of 3,654
I pretty much agree with your Anole Vx review, it is too resolving for it's own good but damn it is the most technical iem I've ever listened to , that resolution , that clarity, what an iem. Wish you had chance to try it with some other sources.
 
Sep 24, 2020 at 2:15 PM Post #93 of 3,654
I’m itching to try the Trio but after selling the Noir because of a poor seal/not ideal fit, I’m not too keen anymore. Maybe I’ll still get around to it to kill the curiosity.

I have the U12t arriving tomorrow. Looking forward to hearing that and comparing it to the A18s.

Nice impressions.

Aw, that's too bad man. Fit and comfort comes first always for sure. Let me know what you think about the U12t though! It's still my flagship benchmark.

Great read. You really should consider as a side project from school writing a book encompassing all terminology/jargon used and its proper explanation. Frankly, given your admitted newness to the hobby, your post is impressive, and your writing style which articulates complex subjects simply is a wonderful way to communicate. I’ll definitely buy a copy! 👍

Appreciate the kind words! I wish I had the time or confidence to do so haha.
 
Sep 24, 2020 at 4:42 PM Post #94 of 3,654
I pretty much agree with your Anole Vx review, it is too resolving for it's own good but damn it is the most technical iem I've ever listened to , that resolution , that clarity, what an iem. Wish you had chance to try it with some other sources.

I agree on the sources comment. I find myself trying to hear what others hear. "Pre" mentioned some shrillness and when i saw some of the sources i was like hmm i wonder if that's not giving a true picture. Plugging the VX into my S8+ i heard shrill in the treble regions. I never hear it on my desktop setup and there always seems to be better layering vs any dap. However, at louder volumes the VX does inhibit some fatigue even with my tinnitus.
 
Sep 24, 2020 at 4:55 PM Post #95 of 3,654
It’s a charm with sp2000cu but brighter leading up to harsh with dx228. I liked what I heard with n3pro and wm1z also.
 
Sep 24, 2020 at 5:39 PM Post #96 of 3,654
I agree on the sources comment. I find myself trying to hear what others hear. "Pre" mentioned some shrillness and when i saw some of the sources i was like hmm i wonder if that's not giving a true picture. Plugging the VX into my S8+ i heard shrill in the treble regions. I never hear it on my desktop setup and there always seems to be better layering vs any dap. However, at louder volumes the VX does inhibit some fatigue even with my tinnitus.

I think the best way of interpreting this is that what you hear is equally "true" to what I hear. Neither one is invalid or wrong; it's simply a result of our having different sources, components in our chain. And that doesn't even account for ear-related factors. So if you don't hear the flaws that I hear, well...that can only be for the better! I wouldn't necessarily encourage actively seeking them out. I also nitpick a lot, admittedly so.

Regarding the source, I think the DX160's a pretty competent DAP. It's also used by a number of other IEM reviewers (Crin, Banbeu, Rikudou, etc.), so I'd posit it makes for a good portable baseline. Would IEMs "scale" on a desktop setup? Yeah, there's a good chance. A friend loaned me an Audio GD dac/amp; I might try and use that in the future. But this again opens up the source question, and as a reviewer, I think it makes more sense just to keep consistent rather than to test via a never-ending number of sources (that I also don't have access to). Hope this helps clarify!
 
Sep 24, 2020 at 5:50 PM Post #97 of 3,654
I think the best way of interpreting this is that what you hear is equally "true" to what I hear. Neither one is invalid or wrong; it's simply a result of our having different sources, components in our chain. And that doesn't even account for ear-related factors. So if you don't hear the flaws that I hear, well...that can only be for the better! I wouldn't necessarily encourage actively seeking them out. I also nitpick a lot, admittedly so.

Regarding the source, I think the DX160's a pretty competent DAP. It's also used by a number of other IEM reviewers (Crin, Banbeu, Rikudou, etc.), so I'd posit it makes for a good portable baseline. Would IEMs "scale" on a desktop setup? Yeah, there's a good chance. A friend loaned me an Audio GD dac/amp; I might try and use that in the future. But this again opens up the source question, and as a reviewer, I think it makes more sense just to keep consistent rather than to test via a never-ending number of sources (that I also don't have access to). Hope this helps clarify!
Keep in mind that we all have different ear canals too. So we definitely do not hear the same thing even if we do describe them as the same thing lol.

On the DX160, yes I think it is a great sounding DAP. But other than that, it is kind of a dissapointment for me. Build, especially the volume wheels feels so bad in comparison to the Fiio M11. Software is also very poorly optimized along with a very slow CPU. Then there is that 3.5mm jack that is really bad because of the noise it has (EMI). I dont use the wifi or bluetooth much so cant comment on that, but a lot of other users have reported it being very bad.
Yes the screen does look very good and does have 1080p, but honestly when you are only using it for music listening, who actually needs a 1080p display? I even turned it off to save battery and the dap itself actually gets very warm (much warmer than the M11), battery life also seems much worse than on the M11.

I think that for the price you are paying for the DX160, non-sound factors should be better. You shouldnt be getting a worse CPU than even 100 usd smartphones has in a dap for 400 usd and the volume wheel shouldnt be frustrating to use because of the feel of it...

Sorry for the rant Precogvision. :joy:
 
Sep 24, 2020 at 6:04 PM Post #98 of 3,654
My point of view and I will emphasize this “my point of view” is good iems require good sources. And bright iems don’t shine with bright sources. At least you can consider one bright source and one warm source not necessarily expensive. I really believe there is no good for all iem or good for all source so you can’t be limited to one source to review everything. It would not be fair. I think n3pro will give fairly different results with each iem compared to dx160 and it’s not pocket burner or something.
 
Sep 24, 2020 at 6:12 PM Post #99 of 3,654
My point of view and I will emphasize this “my point of view” is good iems require good sources. And bright iems don’t shine with bright sources. At least you can consider one bright source and one warm source not necessarily expensive. I really believe there is no good for all iem or good for all source so you can’t be limited to one source to review everything. It would not be fair. I think n3pro will give fairly different results with each iem compared to dx160 and it’s not pocket burner or something.
A cheaper way might be to just get another amp and connect it to the DX160. That way you get the brighter signature when you want by simply connecting the amp or just use the warmer dx160 as it is. (you also dont need to get another sd card and have to duplicate the library on 2 different cards.)

I am kinda interested in that route, and the upcoming Fiio Q3 seems interesting.
 
Sep 24, 2020 at 6:14 PM Post #100 of 3,654
I thought being a reviewer for headphones.com
gives you the privilege to access their inventory for testing? At least the demo units.
 
Sep 24, 2020 at 6:43 PM Post #101 of 3,654
I think the best way of interpreting this is that what you hear is equally "true" to what I hear. Neither one is invalid or wrong; it's simply a result of our having different sources, components in our chain. And that doesn't even account for ear-related factors. So if you don't hear the flaws that I hear, well...that can only be for the better! I wouldn't necessarily encourage actively seeking them out. I also nitpick a lot, admittedly so.

Regarding the source, I think the DX160's a pretty competent DAP. It's also used by a number of other IEM reviewers (Crin, Banbeu, Rikudou, etc.), so I'd posit it makes for a good portable baseline. Would IEMs "scale" on a desktop setup? Yeah, there's a good chance. A friend loaned me an Audio GD dac/amp; I might try and use that in the future. But this again opens up the source question, and as a reviewer, I think it makes more sense just to keep consistent rather than to test via a never-ending number of sources (that I also don't have access to). Hope this helps clarify!

Oh yea. Please don't take it as you're doing it wrong, my way is right. If you're reviews are more based on mobile usage as that is something you spend more time with or because you dont have the access/need for a desktop setup, nothing wrong with that.

I'm not trying to find fault in my iems but i do like to try and see if i can hear what someone else is hearing. I understand this may not be completely possible. For instance, i have tinnitus but i still have a pretty damn good ear (and im not quite that old, yet) nearing 40. I am pretty good on picking up the nuances of sources and im not saying that if you go destop you're going to hear an 80% increase but you will hear some differences. I have a decent dap and it just misses out on some of the layering and space my desktop setup does.

I always appreciate your responses.
 
Sep 24, 2020 at 7:05 PM Post #102 of 3,654
I think that for the price you are paying for the DX160, non-sound factors should be better. You shouldnt be getting a worse CPU than even 100 usd smartphones has in a dap for 400 usd and the volume wheel shouldnt be frustrating to use because of the feel of it...

Sorry for the rant Precogvision. :joy:

Nah, you're good man. I agree it's booty for anything other than sound. Luckily I don't use it for WiFi or Bluetooth either, but I can confirm it's pretty bad.

My point of view and I will emphasize this “my point of view” is good iems require good sources. And bright iems don’t shine with bright sources. At least you can consider one bright source and one warm source not necessarily expensive. I really believe there is no good for all iem or good for all source so you can’t be limited to one source to review everything. It would not be fair. I think n3pro will give fairly different results with each iem compared to dx160 and it’s not pocket burner or something.

I tried alluding to this in my previous post, but unfortunately, there's no way for me to satisfy everyone. There's always going to be something that I didn't test or that someone will say I've missed! Consider a scenario in which I find an IEM mandates a specific source to sound good. What if my readers don't have access to said source - is that fair for them? And at that point, am I evaluating the merit of the IEM or rather, the source? And what about value? Of course this goes both ways - as you noted - but I think there's an element of unfairness that's always going to be present.

While ideally more sources may seem like a good thing, as you can see, it's not that black and white. I think it makes more sense to put my foot down and adhere to consistency. Consistency is the gold standard and it should be paramount when reviewing. Again, this is just my take (right now) and you're completely entitled to your own. I do have access to hp.com's IEM demo units, and maybe in the future I can get some DAP stuff going as well. :)

I'm not trying to find fault in my iems but i do like to try and see if i can hear what someone else is hearing. I understand this may not be completely possible. For instance, i have tinnitus but i still have a pretty damn good ear (and im not quite that old, yet) nearing 40. I am pretty good on picking up the nuances of sources and im not saying that if you go destop you're going to hear an 80% increase but you will hear some differences. I have a decent dap and it just misses out on some of the layering and space my desktop setup does.

Yeah, I understand where you're coming from! It's fun to see where our thoughts line up with others, after all. I hope my hearing is still good when I hit on 40 too lol.
 
Sep 24, 2020 at 7:09 PM Post #103 of 3,654
Get the daps from Taron, leave consistency. More sources mean you can touch the hearts of guys who doesn’t use dx160. See twister6, he uses 256 sources for each review.
 
Sep 27, 2020 at 2:02 AM Post #105 of 3,654
Get the daps from Taron, leave consistency. More sources mean you can touch the hearts of guys who doesn’t use dx160. See twister6, he uses 256 sources for each review.
Seems like something you want more than OP does. It's his reviews, he choses to be consistent with a fairly affordable DAP and I applaid that. Similarly, all my impressions are based off of 1 DAP as well.

Also that's a wild claim

@twister6 Alex, can you confirm or deny this 256 sources per review being cited?
 

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