[Spidermanxd]

What he's describing is the skin effect. Higher frequencies do tend to travel on the surface of the wire, hence why plating is so often used on wires. This doesn't mean that any frequencies exclusively travel in other parts of the wire, but he's not wrong about high frequencies' tendency.

There is a reasonable argument to be made that changes in sound are down to conductivity alone, Double Helix Cables has made this argument. I personally don't believe that music needs perfect conductivity. My generic copper plated aluminum wires bought off Amazon for a tenner for 10m have sounded better than silver plated copper wires from QED on my living room speakers. Cables can sound different for a variety reasons: cable size (bigger is generally better, to a point), geometry (I've done a blinded test with Wire on Wire), dielectric composition, and wire material (I don't know if equally conductive alloys sound the same).

I'll pretty much guarantee that Marcus Downey and Alex Twister are hearing real differences, as they have two of the best ears in the industry. I only wish a manufacturer would set up a blinded lineup test with multiple reviewers. Then this question could be put to rest. It makes for tons of stupid arguments where people shout their perspectives and take pseudo-scientific perspectives on both sides. The cable believers argue that you can't measure everything and the cable non-believers argue that everything is measured, that ear testing is total bunk, and that people who've actually listened and compared are deluding themselves. There is some validity in all these points, with some limitations. One of these sides is more corrosive than the other. True scientists acknowledge that they don't know everything. Empirical testing needs to be done, but cable manufacturers don't have an interest in doing it, because high end cables are largely a luxury product for people with extra money (just like high end IEMs). Gold and palladium aren't cheap, irrespective of their effect on sound.

Of course Marcus Downey and Alex Twister do hear the differences because they are reviewers and they got the products for free, if I get products for free of course I will say that as well

 

[ScrofulousBinturong]

I'll pretty much guarantee that Marcus Downey and Alex Twister are hearing real differences, as they have two of the best ears in the industry.

If they only have two ears between them, that would explain some of these claims.

 

[Whitigir]

Why is it that people can judge a cables or any piece of gears without having a listen or real life experiences to it nowadays ? You have not listened to it, or compared this cables to any others and yet speaking like you have known it so well ? Even to attacks people who put in real experiences and composed so much details just to provide you the experiences that they have ?

 

[Khronos]

There’s no way you can cram enough metal into 26AWG wires to be worth $1K, no matter what metal you’re talking about. Assuming that electrical transmission is your only concern, anyway. Some of these cables do look fantastic, I have to admit. But since I listen by myself, for myself, I’m not all that concerned with looking dope.

Californium

 

[Khronos]

Have you guys ever tried making cables out of liquid metal alloys?
These guys have done it.

http://www.teoaudio.com/products/liquid-audio-cables/

This university did it.

https://www.theverge.com/2012/12/19/3783544/liquid-metal-used-to-create-super-stretchable-wires

Make them a nice thin gauge, Octacore, and in plastic tubing, with a cobweb of 30+awg enameled silver running around as ground.

Give it some Rose copper/Titanium plugs with a matching splitter and you might as well have created one of th most beautiful cables out there, and with excellent ergonomics, not less!

And in addition, it would be the first commercially available liquid IEM cable in the market.

Connecting the connectors would be a challenge, though with the use of graphene powder mixed with a similar compound as stopper could work pretty damned well to secure themto the plugs (and maybe with the chance of not needing to use Solder at all).

 

[killaHz]

Californium

I’m assuming radioactivity has bad ramifications for sound

Why is it that people can judge a cables or any piece of gears without having a listen or real life experiences to it nowadays ? You have not listened to it, or compared this cables to any others and yet speaking like you have known it so well ? Even to attacks people who put in real experiences and composed so much details just to provide you the experiences that they have ?

I don’t think they’re saying it sounds bad. I think they’re saying the cable is designed based on unsound principles.

Here’s an analogy: a guy uses aluminum brads to nail together the frame of a house. When informed of this decision, a person who knows the structural properties of metals would say that was a bad call. It’s not him saying the house won’t stand up straight, or look nice when it’s finished. It’s him saying aluminum is not a good metal to make nails with.

 

[Whitigir]

I’m assuming radioactivity has bad ramifications for sound


I don’t think they’re saying it sounds bad. I think they’re saying the cable is designed based on unsound principles.

Here’s an analogy: a guy uses aluminum brads to nail together the frame of a house. When informed of this decision, a person who knows the structural properties of metals would say that was a bad call. It’s not him saying the house won’t stand up straight, or look nice when it’s finished. It’s him saying aluminum is not a good metal to make nails with.

Science is about real personal experiences. I don’t meant that you have to judge about it sounds.
Now, going by your analogy, can I ask these guys to provide proof that they are scientists, professors, with lab equipments ?

See what I meant ? A person can always sit on his Butts and “google up” informations and claim that he is a scientist and that he knows so much, then keep on asking questions ? You think it is fair ? Of course Not

Now, as a conductor, any materials will conduct electrical signals, and since we are using this very signals of Alternative current to stimulate the magnetic field which in turn be moving a mechanism to vibrate and create sound waves. How are you so sure that Less conductivity automatically equal to sounding bad ?

There is Ohm law, so simply put, less conductivity will generate higher current. Who or what are you to judge that it will sound bad ? Or should not be ?
If you are telling me that you want to follow science then I am asking you, is science about “doubting and making questions?” Or is it about “personal experiences first and then be looking for the causes later?”

Then allow me to ask you again, if you are so much into science, and you can not measure anything, then at least, had you tried to observe how such materials is working, which you are doubting and questioning about ?

It takes a scientist to understand a scientist, and sitting on a chair, asking baseless questions without real experiences are just....simply and politely put “keyboard warriors”

 

[Whitigir]

Btw, Your street poles and conductors are all aluminum. Why ? Because other parameters had been considered. If you only based on just 1 factor such as “conductivity rating” and proclaim yourself to be “proficient in science” then I don’t know what to tell you

I just want to be polite and ask, have you tried this cables and materials yet ? If not, you don’t know how it sound, good or bad, then don’t talk about science. Because you are also anti-science at it very core

 

[killaHz]

Look: maybe somebody can make a gold speaker cone sound good; maybe they can’t. But they shouldn’t do it, because gold is heavy and lacks rigidity. The only reason to put it in there is to put something expensive in there. Why would I pay a massive premium for a material that requires the maker to fight against its properties?

 

[Whitigir]

You don’t understand all other parameters to utilize the materials, it doesn’t mean that other people also can not do so.

Then let me ask you, should you ask the street pole to be Copper instead of aluminum ? Go tell them, because you are a scientist, and you know for sure that copper has better conductivity than aluminum

 

[bfreedma]

Why is it that people can judge a cables or any piece of gears without having a listen or real life experiences to it nowadays ? You have not listened to it, or compared this cables to any others and yet speaking like you have known it so well ? Even to attacks people who put in real experiences and composed so much details just to provide you the experiences that they have ?

Curious - do you apply the same criteria to all branches of science? That without personal experience, one cannot be certain accepted science is accurate?

For example, do you hold gravitational theory to the same standard and that the only way to be sure it "works" in every scenario is actual first hand experience.

 

[papa_mia]

Oh boy, here we go again...

 

[glassmonkey]

Look: maybe somebody can make a gold speaker cone sound good; maybe they can’t. But they shouldn’t do it, because gold is heavy and lacks rigidity. The only reason to put it in there is to put something expensive in there. Why would I pay a massive premium for a material that requires the maker to fight against its properties?

Sorry dude, but heavy isn't always bad. Gold is used in HiFiMAN's Susvara partly for the mass.

 

[glassmonkey]

Of course Marcus Downey and Alex Twister do hear the differences because they are reviewers and they got the products for free, if I get products for free of course I will say that as well

The other side: Alex Twister has more cables and headphones and DAPs than he could ever care about. He can't sell them and he isn't invested in them because he hasn't spent a paycheck on them and has to rotate to new ones all the time.

Who's more trustworthy, the guy who's blown a month's rent on a cable and must justify his purchase or the guy who has excess and no need to say anything positive or negative. If Alex doesn't like something, chances are he doesn't review it (my opinion, not his). We live in a time of remarkable excess in audio. Most things sound good. Alex Twister and Marcus Downey are remarkably honest reviewers who actually care about informing their readers.

 

[tin-ear]

Do you have any credible scientific research or studies which verify that any frequencies travel through a cable the way you describe? Also, is there any measurements via CSD waterfall, frequency response chart, or any other valid measurement with controls in place, and that are repeatable, which demonstrate cables make a significant or measurable difference in sound quality?

You can't possibly be serious.

The skin effect has been known for 135 years. Here is the entry in Wikipedia, the source of all, often accurate information:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin_effect

Sheer speculation on my part: the electrical signal at the skin "sees" less resistance. The deeper running currents, seeing more resistance may suffer a lowering of freq response and/or speed of transmission. This may result in a brighter sound due to inhibited lower frequency transmission, and maybe even slower transmission of the lower frequencies. (Think of how miniscule timing issues from digital jitter affect sound). (I'm having fun, btw).
Coating the wire with a higher resistance metal may tamp down the high freq signals to be more consistent with the lower freq. signals, resulting in a less discombobulated sound.
Like I said, sheer speculation!

Commentary at Belden about skin effect, basically saying it has so little effect in audio frequencies we can ignore it.
https://www.belden.com/blog/broadcast/understanding-skin-effect-and-frequency

There’s no way you can cram enough metal into 26AWG wires to be worth $1K, no matter what metal you’re talking about. Assuming that electrical transmission is your only concern, anyway. Some of these cables do look fantastic, I have to admit. But since I listen by myself, for myself, I’m not all that concerned with looking dope.

The spot price of palladium today is $2,230.30 an ounce.
Thought experiment: figure out the price of the raw materials in a car, house, coffin, flat screen TV, Single Malt Scotch Whisky. Try to buy any of those for less than 5 times the price of the raw materials.

Opposing information: a quick Google search on "palladium coated copper wire" found 1,400,000 hits. To increase the validity of posting on this thead, I propose we all read every entry before further commenting.
Okay, I'll cheat: the price of palladium coated etc. is 2.5 to 3 times higher that uncoated wire.

Closing comments: science and engineering are very valuable where high confidence in what we are doing has high benefits. Such as tech that might explode or crash, or new drugs that can cure or kill. On the other hand, only a tiny, make that a teensy bit of phenomena has been scientifically researched. Most decisions human make are by rule or [edit: of] thumb, wisdom guided by experience, things that have passed the test of time.
If we require hard scientific proof (are [edit] some of the demanders will only move the goal line if offered proof) for every new bit of tech or exercise or behavior or a new tasty food recipe before adopting it, would we still be be using, Morse code?, oil lamps? land line dial phones?

There are lies, lies, and statisctics heuristics.