[redshifter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FallenAngel /img/forum/go_quote.gif Even though you sound very honest in your opinion, I have still to see a good reason not to (well, not me personally, I don't like dogs). Why is there a reason to have ANY dog, simply, the only reason I can ever think of is "because I like it", people like their dogs and they want to have one. That's like asking why have a certain cat, or fish or any other animal, people want what they want.

Let me put it this way. Your neighbor likes cats. Would you have a problem with your neighbor keeping a full grown tiger in their backyard?

See? Pitbulls are dangerous. Add your average idiot to the mix and the problems start. Now give that same idiot say a jack russell terrier, and the problems associated with pitbulls never starts.

I still contend there is no good reason you can tell me for owning a pitbull, besides fighting them. And I am against animal cruelty.

 

[GlendaleViper]

Good point. But my neighbours wouldn't like it if I kept my African Elephant in my apartment. Some pets aren't meant for close quarters living. A Pit Bull on a farm is much different than one in a city suburb.

[EDIT] I see Red and I have a penchant for the exotic in our extravagant analogies.

[EDIT 2] Jack Russel Terriers, in my experience, are the most aggressive dogs I've ever come across. Every last one I've known has needed to be put down for behavioural issues.

 

[robm321]

Have to agree with redshifter - pitbulls were breed to fight.

I mean come on... how'd you think they got their name? pit bulls

 

[redshifter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlendaleViper /img/forum/go_quote.gif Good point. But my neighbours wouldn't like it if I kept my African Elephant in my apartment. Some pets aren't meant for close quarters living. A Pit Bull on a farm is much different than one in a city suburb. [EDIT] I see Red and I have a penchant for the exotic in our extravagant analogies. [EDIT 2] Jack Russel Terriers, in my experience, are the most aggressive dogs I've ever come across. Every last one I've known has needed to be put down for behavioural issues.

OK, how about a big sweet old bloodhound?

 

[Illah]

Regarding the whole guns vs. pepper spray thing, pepper spray actually does work better. Same with bears, you have a better chance of stopping a bear with a huge blast of pepper spray than any sidearm or rifle.

Why?

The nose. Dogs and bears have noses hundreds or thousands of times more powerful than humans depending on breed. There have been cases of bears fainting from the pain of a big blast of pepper spray. They have so many more nerve endings in the nose compared to humans that it just floods the brain with pain signals and they can barely function.

Just hope you don't miss the nose...the rest of them is obviously covered in fur so it's largely useless elsewhere

Anyway, regarding pits, they were bred for fighting, but so were bulldogs. Now bulldogs are considered great pets because it's been bred out of them. I'm sure there are good lines and bad lines. Purebred pits typically lack the monster jowels o' death that some of the fighting pits have, and I'm sure they're much more docile.

The problem with pits is that they're typically adopted from rescue shelters by well intentioned people who aren't always strong dog handlers (at least here in the Bay area it's pretty common). Where do these shelter pits come from? Typically from lines bred for aggression. These are the dogs that suddenly snap and kill.

Maybe Cesar 'Dog Whisperer' Milan can succeed with those dogs, but he's a top-tier dog handler. Ms. Hippie Chick who wants to save the poor pitbull rescued from a neglectful fight-breeder is setting up for trouble. I'm sure the dog will love *her*, but outsiders could be suddenly attacked.

--Illah

 

[FallenAngel]

Well, bloodhounds actually are exactly what their name says, they're tracking dogs.

I wouldn't like a neighbor with a tiger any more than the next person, but it's also highly illegal (and for good reason) because it's not a domesticated animal.

I'm simply a firm believer in nurture over nature in dogs. It may very well be true that there are quite a large number of aggressive pit bulls, and I'm totally with you on the whole idiot + aggressive dog = trouble idea, what I can't agree with is the ban on a species of animals simply because people choose to make them dangerous.

 

[LawnGnome]

Pitbulls aren't normally a violent breed.

Pitbulls become violent though because their owner's buy them with the notion they are violent, and then raise them to be violent.

You can train any dog to be passive or aggressive.

 

[Agent Kang]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbasanti /img/forum/go_quote.gif Pitbulls are just given a bad name. It DOES depend on the owner, my neighbor has a pitbull, and it is a really nice and loyal dog...

X2. It's totally dependent on the owner.

 

[Happy Camper]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samgotit /img/forum/go_quote.gif Put the owner in a cage with Michael Vick, let them fight to the death, shoot the the winner.

Similar to my post #3 http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showth...ight=mike+vick

I like your thinkin.

Yes the owner breeds the dog for a weapon but the dog has had the aggression bred into it's genetic makeup. The power of the dog is enough to seriously hurt humans. i have a family member that has a smallish pit. The nails will rip your skin when playing. It can't even be a dog without hurting someone. While it's not fair to eliminate the breed, it's man's fault that it should be.

These animals are only good for one thing. A weapon. Whether for protection, intimidation, whatever, it has no purpose in human society. Not all, but most own these dogs to say, don't mess with me (bully) or for protection from people who would hurt them without one. If you need protection, get a gun. At least it don't get loose and kill someone.

 

[redshifter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LawnGnome /img/forum/go_quote.gif Pitbulls aren't normally a violent breed. Pitbulls become violent though because their owner's buy them with the notion they are violent, and then raise them to be violent. You can train any dog to be passive or aggressive.

That is not correct. Pitbulls were bred to be aggressive. This is why they kill the loser in pitbull fights. Only the most aggressive and violent dogs survive, and the predisposition towards violence is hard-coded in their genes, and no matter how docile you train your pitbull, it is only a matter of time before nature trumps nurture. The wrong stimulus and your little angel turns into a raging weapon.

Now a beagle on the other hand, a beagle is not going to rip your face off like a pitbull.

 

[EyeAmEye]

Quote:

Originally Posted by redshifter /img/forum/go_quote.gif So you use the dog to intimidate the "imbeciles and criminals" in your neighborhood? You are just another one of the macho morons who thinks a pitbull makes them tough.

Know what RIF is? NOWHERE did I say I purposefully intimidate people. In fact, I do exactly the opposite, but you jumped to a conclusion that suited your opinion. I said they are intimidated by him, that is all. Should I not take my dog out for a walk?

You are wasting my time. Live with your arrogance and ignorance. (Mods: cheap shot for a cheap shot, my apologies in advance)

 

[redshifter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by EyeAmEye /img/forum/go_quote.gif Know what RIF is? NOWHERE did I say I purposefully intimidate people. In fact, I do exactly the opposite, but you jumped to a conclusion that suited your opinion. I said they are intimidated by him, that is all. Should I not take my dog out for a walk? You are wasting my time. Live with your arrogance and ignorance. (Mods: cheap shot for a cheap shot, my apologies in advance)

Quote:

Originally Posted by EyeAmEye In my neighborhood, a pit was a good idea Even if he is the way he is, the imbeciles and criminals in my neighborhood don't know that, and they do back down from him when he's outside.

Yes, you are. In your mind your enemies are "backing down" when they see your pitbull.

And do not mistake my confidence and logic with arrogance. You never told me the reason your family got a pitbull because there is not good one, and you know it.

-edit-
Look EyeAmEye, I'm sure your dog is a sweetheart and you love him. I have owned dogs in my life and loved them all, and still love all animals. They are like children to me. Do not take this thread personally and neither will I. As I said before this topic really angers me, as does any topic involving animal cruelty. I did not mean to single you out.

 

[WhatMACHI]

Quote:

Originally Posted by marvin /img/forum/go_quote.gif Killing power != Stopping power. You want to stop an animal, you have to cause it a lot of pain. Getting shot isn't that painful. Pepper spray is. Either way, you run what you brung. If the shotgun's back in the cruiser, it's not much use when you need to stop the dog immediately. Small firearms note: Buckshot penetrates less than service pistol calibers. If you're having penetration problems with a service pistol, as is fairly likely with charging dogs, they're going to get worse with buckshot in a shotgun. Shotguns are still better choices though due to ease of aiming, hit probability, and pain inflicted. Rifles are better still as you will get the necessary penetration. It happens fairly often with dog skulls. Hollow point or not has nothing to do with it.

If this is true i want a pit bull skull for my own head!

But anyway, given the fact that Pitbulls obviously have a greater tendency to attack uncalled for, why not impose stricter licenses to own these animals?

And i lol'ed at the "Purebred mongrel" comment

 

[bhd812]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LawnGnome /img/forum/go_quote.gif Pitbulls aren't normally a violent breed. Pitbulls become violent though because their owner's buy them with the notion they are violent, and then raise them to be violent. You can train any dog to be passive or aggressive.

i disagree.

Pitbulls were bred for stamina/endurance and to fight. its one of the natural habits of a pit. like Huskies like to garden and play Houdini. in respect to all pits most of the time they will never show their ability and skills but my problem is "if" they do. "if" they snap for w/e reason it won't be pretty, worse then most other breeds cause they have a naturally bred habit to be a true killing machine. that's my only problem with them, which is part of the reason why i had this convo with the dude across the alley from me. if the owner does raise the dog rite there still is the chance of "if"..again "if" is not something you want to be around "if" it happens...
again if i ever had an "if" with the dog across the alley from me I know he will really and i mean really screw me up, again its not a chance i am taking personally and i honestly don't understand why others would.
i compare pitbulls to caged and breed lions for show, you can raise them perfect but "if" ever happened you will have one hell of a mess...unlike you common house cat.

 

[EyeAmEye]

Quote:

Originally Posted by redshifter /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes, you are. In your mind your enemies are "backing down" when they see your pitbull. And do not mistake my confidence and logic with arrogance. You never told me the reason your family got a pitbull because there is not good one, and you know it. -edit- Look EyeAmEye, I'm sure your dog is a sweetheart and you love him. I have owned dogs in my life and loved them all, and still love all animals. They are like children to me. Do not take this thread personally and neither will I. As I said before this topic really angers me, as does any topic involving animal cruelty. I did not mean to single you out.

I don't take it personally, just a small shot for a small shot, no worries.

My family picked a pit because they like pit bulls. Between myself, two brothers and father, I don't think there has been more than 1-2 schoolyard fights between us (never threw a punch at anyone myself). There is no macho, chest-thumping going on here. We get along perfectly with our neighbors. There are no enemies in particular, but there are gangs. It isn't a good idea to walk around my neighborhood after dark. The corner a block over is a known drug spot. If the dog at all intimidates these vermin, all the better, but he is, was, and will always be our family member first, not some bodyguard. In fact, if it ever came to it, I think we would all defend him from harm.

If you see macho in that, there isn't any convincing you otherwise.