[redshifter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by EyeAmEye /img/forum/go_quote.gif The former, as I took exception to being called a moron (indirectly) for being a pit bull owner. But I suppose your presumption speaks for itself anyway, so take from it what you will. I could add this, I believed exactly as you did prior to owning the dog. I was the lone voice in my family who objected to having a pit bull. I am much better informed 11 years later, and can easily say anyone who makes broad statements about pitbulls and/or their owners with no experience of the breed other than what they read or see on tv is ignorant.

You should have fought harder. Why did your family HAVE to have a pitbull? As for being uninformed, you are basing your opinion on ONE case (your own pitbull), assume I have no experience personally with them (I do), and ignore the facts:
"Pit bulls were blamed for killing 76 people, or 32 percent, during a study of dog attacks from 1979-1998, the study showed."
"Better informed" to me means you got attached to the dog, and now feel you have to defend it and yourself.

 

[marvin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecclesand /img/forum/go_quote.gif Pretty gruesome. Per the video, they needed to pepper spray the dogs to get them under control. Why not just shoot the damn things? They're going to be put down anyway.

Pepper spray is more reliable.

Something like a pit bull is also small and very fast. Hitting at all it would be difficult. Instant incapacitation via head shot is iffy as they have tough skulls and the usual angles are fairly oblique. There's a high probability that the bullets would just bounce off. Anything not instantly incapacitating isn't that good either. Animals on adrenaline are too dumb to know they're going to die and can fight long after you've inflicted lethal injuries.

 

[colonelkernel8]

Quote:

Originally Posted by marvin /img/forum/go_quote.gif Pepper spray is more reliable. Something like a pit bull is also small and very fast. Hitting at all it would be difficult. Instant incapacitation via head shot is iffy as they have tough skulls and the usual angles are fairly oblique. There's a high probability that the bullets would just bounce off. Anything not instantly incapacitating isn't that good either. Animals on adrenaline are too dumb to know they're going to die and can fight long after you've inflicted lethal injuries.

No way the bullets would bounce off. Even if they are hollow points...

 

[robm321]

Quote:

Originally Posted by marvin /img/forum/go_quote.gif Pepper spray is more reliable. Something like a pit bull is also small and very fast. Hitting at all it would be difficult. Instant incapacitation via head shot is iffy as they have tough skulls and the usual angles are fairly oblique. There's a high probability that the bullets would just bounce off. Anything not instantly incapacitating isn't that good either. Animals on adrenaline are too dumb to know they're going to die and can fight long after you've inflicted lethal injuries.

...Yet will stop cuz their eyes burn

Cops have a shotgun in their car that pretty much take care of all your other arguments about oblique angles and deflecting bullets

 

[EyeAmEye]

Quote:

Originally Posted by redshifter /img/forum/go_quote.gif You should have fought harder. Why did your family HAVE to have a pitbull? As for being uninformed, you are basing your opinion on ONE case (your own pitbull), assume I have no experience personally with them (I do), and ignore the facts: "Pit bulls were blamed for killing 76 people, or 32 percent, during a study of dog attacks from 1979-1998, the study showed." "Better informed" to me means you got attached to the dog, and now feel you have to defend it and yourself.

I shouldn't have fought at all, seeing how it turned out.

In my neighborhood, a pit was a good idea

Even if he is the way he is, the imbeciles and criminals in my neighborhood don't know that, and they do back down from him when he's outside.

Numbers mean nothing. Dog fighter, criminals, and various other morons don't own poodles, they own pits, rottweilers, etc., so the numbers would indicate such, as they most certainly do. Doesn't speak for the bread at all.

 

[redshifter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by EyeAmEye /img/forum/go_quote.gif I shouldn't have fought at all, seeing how it turned out. In my neighborhood, a pit was a good idea Even if he is the way he is, the imbeciles and criminals in my neighborhood don't know that, and they do back down from him when he's outside. Numbers mean nothing. Dog fighter, criminals, and various other morons don't own poodles, they own pits, rottweilers, etc., so the numbers would indicate such, as they most certainly do. Doesn't speak for the bread at all.

So you use the dog to intimidate the "imbeciles and criminals" in your neighborhood? You are just another one of the macho morons who thinks a pitbull makes them tough.

 

[elbrickodaviso]

Quote:

Originally Posted by redshifter /img/forum/go_quote.gif So you use the dog to intimidate the "imbeciles and criminals" in your neighborhood? You are just another one of the macho morons who thinks a pitbull makes them tough.

This isn't my argument, but how is that called for at all? Dogs that look intimidating are great for keeping criminal types away from your house...that's not hard to understand at all...or are you assuming (which, by the way, you seem to have a knack for) that the dog violently barks and threatens the neighborhood children?

And if he originally put up a fight with his family to not own a pit bull in the first place, why would he randomly decide to use it like a macho moron? You're looking for an excuse to be hostile and it's annoying to have to read stuff like this.

 

[FallenAngel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by epaludo /img/forum/go_quote.gif I caught myself thinking sometimes if isn't a good move for the human nation to ban this breed for ever. Prohibit reprodution and exterminate them all. This is not the first time that something like this happen and will not be the last for sure ...

On that train of thought, the same should have been said about humans long ago.

I'm not defending these dogs in particular, personally I hate dogs with a passion like no other, absolutely loath and can't stand them, but nevertheless, every domesticated animal should have its right to live. The responsibility lies solely on the owner to train the dog properly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wodgy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Pitbulls are a breed prone to violence. I'm a dog lover, I know dogs tend to turn out how you raise them, but the statistics show that pitbulls are way over-represented in violent incidents. In the last 20 years in the US, the Centers for Disease Control found that 32% of fatal injuries from dogs were caused by pit bulls: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...NGRODDH561.DTL When just one breed causes a third of all dog deaths, it's hard not to conclude that there's something particularly dangerous about pit bulls.

Wodgy, that may be true, but there are similar statistics that represent categories of people (lets say by age group, locality, race, etc) and I don't believe that it means all who fall under these categories are "particularly dangerous".


Perhaps there is simply a trend that people see pit bulls as "tough" dogs so they get them and train them in such a way (or ignorantly don't train them properly). A doberman pinscher is an extremely efficient killing machine, it is smart and has a great learning curve, yet statistically, it isn't involved in many random attacks (much more likely to attack and kill on command), perhaps it just isn't as popular. I'm betting on that vs "naturally dangerous", but I still wouldn't want to meet one alone.

 

[redshifter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by elbrickodaviso /img/forum/go_quote.gif This isn't my argument, but how is that called for at all? Dogs that look intimidating are great for keeping criminal types away from your house...that's not hard to understand at all...or are you assuming (which, by the way, you seem to have a knack for) that the dog violently barks and threatens the neighborhood children? And if he originally put up a fight with his family to not own a pit bull in the first place, why would he randomly decide to use it like a macho moron? You're looking for an excuse to be hostile and it's annoying to have to read stuff like this.

Nobody is making you read my posts. Use the ignore function and stop pestering me.

 

[marvin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by robm321 /img/forum/go_quote.gif ...Yet will stop cuz their eyes burn Cops have a shotgun in their car that pretty much take care of all your other arguments about oblique angles and deflecting bullets

Killing power != Stopping power. You want to stop an animal, you have to cause it a lot of pain. Getting shot isn't that painful. Pepper spray is.

Either way, you run what you brung. If the shotgun's back in the cruiser, it's not much use when you need to stop the dog immediately.

Small firearms note:
Buckshot penetrates less than service pistol calibers. If you're having penetration problems with a service pistol, as is fairly likely with charging dogs, they're going to get worse with buckshot in a shotgun. Shotguns are still better choices though due to ease of aiming, hit probability, and pain inflicted. Rifles are better still as you will get the necessary penetration.

Quote:

Originally Posted by colonelkernel8 No way the bullets would bounce off. Even if they are hollow points...

It happens fairly often with dog skulls. Hollow point or not has nothing to do with it.

 

[robm321]

Quote:

Originally Posted by marvin /img/forum/go_quote.gif Getting shot isn't that painful. Pepper spray is. Small firearms note: Buckshot penetrates less than service pistol calibers. If you're having penetration problems with a service pistol, as is fairly likely with charging dogs, they're going to get worse with buckshot in a shotgun. Shotguns are still better choices though due to ease of aiming, hit probability, and pain inflicted. Rifles are better still as you will get the necessary penetration.

I'll take the pain of pepper spray over hot lead sliding through me any day. I'm pretty sure the dogs would be stopped.

The real reason they don't shoot is because they have another method which is non lethal. They always try to use the least lethal method if there is an option for that.

 

[Contrastique]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samgotit /img/forum/go_quote.gif Put the owner in a cage with Michael Vick, let them fight to the death, shoot the the winner.

Best post ever haha lol! I'll throw in 50 bucks haha!

 

[redshifter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Contrastique /img/forum/go_quote.gif Best post ever haha lol! I'll throw in 50 bucks haha!

Did you see the video? Vick would eat that kid for breakfast, and still be hungry.

It is hard for me to read about Vick's friends defending him. Things like "He's a good guy, he is really suffereing now and needs our understanding" Suffering? [size=xx-large]SUFFERING?[/size] The irony in the face of what Vick did is so huge it broke my meter.

If Vick wants our sympathy for his suffering, let's put him in a ring with a couple of pissed-off pit-bulls, and after they are done with him take Vick out and electrocute him. THAT is suffering, the same suffering he and his friends caused these innocent animals.

And yes the subject of pitbulls really pisses me off. It brings together everything I hate about the worst of human/animal interaction: cruelty, ignorance, innocent people getting hurt, gambling, etc.

I have yet to see a good reason to own a pitbull stated in this thread, besides "I have one and like it". Please.

 

[FallenAngel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by redshifter /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have yet to see a good reason to own a pitbull stated in this thread, besides "I have one and like it". Please.

Even though you sound very honest in your opinion, I have still to see a good reason not to (well, not me personally, I don't like dogs). Why is there a reason to have ANY dog, simply, the only reason I can ever think of is "because I like it", people like their dogs and they want to have one. That's like asking why have a certain cat, or fish or any other animal, people want what they want.

 

[GreatDane]

About 3 years ago a pit bull chewed its way through my wooden fence to get to my 13 year old cat that was too old to even climb the fence to get away. The dog drug my cat through the hole and left it 20 feet away to die.

This was my wifes "baby", she was crushed of course. She took the owner to court where he was ordered to install a tall metal fence to restrain the dog, also he was ordered to have the dog neutered.

The dogs owner decided to put the dog down because if he was neutered it would be useless because he was breeding. This guy was a freaking scumbag!

Luckily he has since moved away or been put in jail (I can only hope).

I'm just so glad that the dog did not attack a child in its history.

Since then I've become paranoid about all dogs and make sure to carry a weapon most everywhere.