[Pahani]

  Thanks, what are you pads like? Are they the shiny velour you see on a lot of the photos?

Yep, the pads on my Gibsons are plush velour. When people talk about different pad thicknesses and/or materials(between the different Makers), I believe the differences are slight and the overall design is fairly consistent.

 

[HardstyleLoco96]

Did you a/b these two or are your impressions based on memory?

On another note I purchased the HD598(SE) that have been mentioned several times in this thread as a competitor to the X2's today so I'll see in a few days how they compare for my preference......

Yes I have a/b them with an original pair from woox that an old friend has and also a/b them with a pair from Amazon which is Gibson. There is a difference which I hear from my pair. Compared to the Woox, mine sound cleaner and clearer but the Woox it feels that the bass extended a little lower but the bass bled into the mids. The Gibson from  Amazon Vs my pair which are Gibson as well. I notice bass is the same, but mids sound more forward and the soundstage sounds a tad more intimate but instrument separation is much better on the pair I have.

 

[boiledelephant]

So basically they're making silent upgrades to these things every time they build a new batch, and not distinguishing between them on the customer end?
 
That's pretty annoying. I'd like to know what I'm buying.

 

[peter123]

So basically they're making silent upgrades to these things every time they build a new batch, and not distinguishing between them on the customer end?

That's pretty annoying. I'd like to know what I'm buying.

This is yet another post from you speculating wildly about things you don't have any clue of (your "analysis" of the reason for the price changes was the first I remember). I can't really help wondering what made you come to this conclusion but I'm unsubscribing this thread again so please don't elaborate any further.....

 

[wordfool]

  So basically they're making silent upgrades to these things every time they build a new batch, and not distinguishing between them on the customer end?
 
That's pretty annoying. I'd like to know what I'm buying.

 
I doubt they're making "upgrades". More likely it's just normal unit-to-unit variation or perhaps slight changes somewhere on the manufacturing line -- new solder supplier, for example, or in the case of Philips a whole new manufacturing line (China vs Mexico). Variation in headphones between different "batches" is hardly new and neither is variation between individual units made around the same time. The more complex the device, the more likely there will be minor differences between units (especially if there's any "hand-made" element to them... just ask Beyerdynamic owners!). I suspect everything from wire and solder quality to diaphragm uniformity and glue distribution could be slightly different in headphone units. It's just with headphones we're more likely to hear those differences than with other electronic products. Sometimes you see the differences -- in the photography world there is often-considerable variation between lenses of the same model, for example.
 
The point with manufacturing these things is not to get every unit absolutely identical, but to get every unit within an acceptable range. So, yes, I expect that whatever the headphone if you were to buy two copies and compare you might well find slight differences in the sound. In the photography world it's not unusual for people to buy 2-3 copies of a lens, test them all, and keep only the sharpest. 

 

[Pahani]

   
I doubt they're making "upgrades". More likely it's just normal unit-to-unit variation or perhaps slight changes somewhere on the manufacturing line -- new solder supplier, for example, or in the case of Philips a whole new manufacturing line (China vs Mexico). Variation in headphones between different "batches" is hardly new and neither is variation between individual units made around the same time. The more complex the device, the more likely there will be minor differences between units (especially if there's any "hand-made" element to them... just ask Beyerdynamic owners!). I suspect everything from wire and solder quality to diaphragm uniformity and glue distribution could be slightly different in headphone units. It's just with headphones we're more likely to hear those differences than with other electronic products. Sometimes you see the differences -- in the photography world there is often-considerable variation between lenses of the same model, for example.
 
The point with manufacturing these things is not to get every unit absolutely identical, but to get every unit within an acceptable range. So, yes, I expect that whatever the headphone if you were to buy two copies and compare you might well find slight differences in the sound. In the photography world it's not unusual for people to buy 2-3 copies of a lens, test them all, and keep only the sharpest. 

Ahh, the same thing exists in computing, specifically with people big into Overclocking. Some of those guys will buy 5-10 CPUs or more (exact same model, mind you), and keep only the one or ones that perform best. This is called cherry-picking. The other CPUs that they then re-sell, they can actually MAKE money on, simply due to the fact they've been pre-tested and can be guaranteed to perform at a certain overclock. This is called "Binning".
 
If you're a normal consumer who buys one chip, and gets either a good or bad overclocker, this is called Winning (or losing) the Silicon Lottery.

 

[HardstyleLoco96]

Ahh, the same thing exists in computing, specifically with people big into Overclocking. Some of those guys will buy 5-10 CPUs or more (exact same model, mind you), and keep only the one or ones that perform best. This is called cherry-picking. The other CPUs that they then re-sell, they can actually MAKE money on, simply due to the fact they've been pre-tested and can be guaranteed to perform at a certain overclock. This is called "Binning".

If you're a normal consumer who buys one chip, and gets either a good or bad overclocker, this is called Winning (or losing) the Silicon Lottery.

Just to make clear of things, no they aren't huge differences but they are noticeable. Mids are definitely more foward and bass is of better quality. But the other slight changes are not that big only can be noticed if listening carefully. But I do feel that the new batch actually benefits more with a good amp more than the older X2. Thats what I hear and feel but everyones ears are different.

 

[ThomasHK]

   
I doubt they're making "upgrades". More likely it's just normal unit-to-unit variation or perhaps slight changes somewhere on the manufacturing line -- new solder supplier, for example, or in the case of Philips a whole new manufacturing line (China vs Mexico). Variation in headphones between different "batches" is hardly new and neither is variation between individual units made around the same time. The more complex the device, the more likely there will be minor differences between units (especially if there's any "hand-made" element to them... just ask Beyerdynamic owners!). I suspect everything from wire and solder quality to diaphragm uniformity and glue distribution could be slightly different in headphone units. It's just with headphones we're more likely to hear those differences than with other electronic products. Sometimes you see the differences -- in the photography world there is often-considerable variation between lenses of the same model, for example.
 
The point with manufacturing these things is not to get every unit absolutely identical, but to get every unit within an acceptable range. So, yes, I expect that whatever the headphone if you were to buy two copies and compare you might well find slight differences in the sound. In the photography world it's not unusual for people to buy 2-3 copies of a lens, test them all, and keep only the sharpest. 

I don't know where this ludicrous rumour started, but the X2 is NOT made in Mexico now... It's still in China. Just moved to another plant of the same contract manufacturer.

 

[boiledelephant]

   
I doubt they're making "upgrades". More likely it's just normal unit-to-unit variation or perhaps slight changes somewhere on the manufacturing line -- new solder supplier, for example, or in the case of Philips a whole new manufacturing line (China vs Mexico). Variation in headphones between different "batches" is hardly new and neither is variation between individual units made around the same time. The more complex the device, the more likely there will be minor differences between units (especially if there's any "hand-made" element to them... just ask Beyerdynamic owners!). I suspect everything from wire and solder quality to diaphragm uniformity and glue distribution could be slightly different in headphone units. It's just with headphones we're more likely to hear those differences than with other electronic products. Sometimes you see the differences -- in the photography world there is often-considerable variation between lenses of the same model, for example.
 
The point with manufacturing these things is not to get every unit absolutely identical, but to get every unit within an acceptable range. So, yes, I expect that whatever the headphone if you were to buy two copies and compare you might well find slight differences in the sound. In the photography world it's not unusual for people to buy 2-3 copies of a lens, test them all, and keep only the sharpest. 

+1 thank you for this info, it certainly correlates with the way my older audiophile friends approach headphones and monitors, i.e. buying several on ebay over time, gambling each time on getting one that performs slightly closer to their ideal sound. One chap I know owns about 5 pairs of the same model of - yes, I think they might be Beyerdynamics, actually!
 
I sell laptops and find myself performing the same supply process of averaging - I'll sell several at the same price point that, really, are quite different in small ways - screen brightness, keyboard rigidity, palmrest wear, wireless antenna performance - just because they're "close enough" to be worth the same amount, overall. But a customer emphasizing one particular feature does occasionally bring one back, and I just swap it for another on which that particular feature is in better order.

 

[wordfool]

Ahh, the same thing exists in computing, specifically with people big into Overclocking. Some of those guys will buy 5-10 CPUs or more (exact same model, mind you), and keep only the one or ones that perform best. This is called cherry-picking. The other CPUs that they then re-sell, they can actually MAKE money on, simply due to the fact they've been pre-tested and can be guaranteed to perform at a certain overclock. This is called "Binning".

If you're a normal consumer who buys one chip, and gets either a good or bad overclocker, this is called Winning (or losing) the Silicon Lottery.

Ahh, the same thing exists in computing, specifically with people big into Overclocking. Some of those guys will buy 5-10 CPUs or more (exact same model, mind you), and keep only the one or ones that perform best. This is called cherry-picking. The other CPUs that they then re-sell, they can actually MAKE money on, simply due to the fact they've been pre-tested and can be guaranteed to perform at a certain overclock. This is called "Binning".

If you're a normal consumer who buys one chip, and gets either a good or bad overclocker, this is called Winning (or losing) the Silicon Lottery.

Interesting insight. The only drawback to trying to beat the headphone lottery is the fact that many people think headphones need "burn in" time (I'm not judging) so you'd have to buy multiple copies and run pink noise through them all before selecting a pair. Makes things a bit less convenient compared to CPUs, lenses, LEDs ec. Then again, maybe one could probably determine which is likely to sound the best right off the bat.

I'm curious if anyone has done this with headphones? And indeed if anyone has actually measured differences between copies of the same headphone.

I don't know where this ludicrous rumour started, but the X2 is NOT made in Mexico now... It's still in China. Just moved to another plant of the same contract manufacturer.

Argh... Sorry to perpetuate a myth! I stand corrected!

 

[kiwikozo]

I know this might be a bit of a daft comparison, but how would the X2's compare to the Oppo PM-2? Are the PM-2's worth 5x the price? 

 

[wolfjeanne]

  I know this might be a bit of a daft comparison, but how would the X2's compare to the Oppo PM-2? Are the PM-2's worth 5x the price? 

You can compare all you want of course
The Oppo's are planar magnetic so they should sound quite different - and most would say better, especially in the bass regions. EDIT: Not to mention that they have a more neutral tuning.
 
I don't think they are 5x the price; unless the x2 became a whole lot cheaper/the PM-2 more expensive recently. Whether they are worth it is really a question of how good your ears are, how much money you have, how much you want to use them, and how good your other equipment is.

 

[TheBigJim]

  They've appeared on an Amazon UK Warehouse deal for £108, but I'm really really wary - I've heard very mixed things about Warehouse Deals, and the Warehouse 'seller' account on Amazon Marketplace has like 86% positive feedback -_-

The Warehouse Deal is fine. You can click into each item and it says what sort of issues there are with them. Mine stated "Small imperfection to top of item" and true enough there is a scrape / drag in the leather on the top, still had that new smell out the box, fantastic for £106. 
 
I am really enjoying mine at the moment, even better through my new D14 Bushmaster that adds more detail to them. They have such a natural way of presenting all the instruments, it makes the detail shoot out but not overpowering. Very smooth all round and I am certainly hearing new stuff in my favorite tracks (compared to Amperiors, Modded SR-80i's, Flare Audio R2's, Hifiman RE-400's and some others not worth mentioning). 
 
Im extremely happy and for the money, what else can be bought for £106 that sounds this good? I tell you what, nowt! 
 
Jim

 

[kiwikozo]

I purchased them for a low price with the Amazon deals too - around £130. It was my only option as they were sold out everywhere else on Amazon. They should be arriving tomorrow or Thursday. Hopefully I have a good pair.

 

[Congo1234]

Does anyone know if this screw is from the Fidelio X2?  It either came from the headset or the Projector above me.
 
Edit: It's not letting me post pictures.  The screw is a flat head with hex shape head as below but is much shorter in length:
 
http://sg.misumi-ec.com/material/mech/MEM1/PHOTO/221000802173_02319.jpg