[Kirosia]

In defense of gaming, I haven't had issues with any title releases in quite a while. (Haven't updated video card drivers in a year either.. though I probably should) I am contemplating on upgrading from WinXP to Win7, but I'd still need a new HDD (clean install) and new/more RAM.
 
Maintaining Windows really isn't much work once you get everything setup. Just got to make sure to update your software and completely remove traces of un-installed apps. 

 

[Anaxilus]

PC's are either for those that want to save money, know how to operate a PC, know how to build a PC, know how to fix a PC, like the extended PC library, don't like Apple's products, strategy, philosophy or image.  Apple's are for people that like eye candy in their software, hardware, like touching or clicking icons, will never open up their device, don't mind paying too much for something, like believing their computer won't ever crash or get viruses.  I have been fortunate enough to have never bought a PC from any manufacturer in my lifetime.  Always built by myself from quality components that would shame any Apple product.  I know this because I know some people that make all these 'quality' Apple products.  You would be surprised to know how little separates any Apple product from some crappy Dell or HP.  Many times made in the same factory!  Usually its just a shiny aluminum box and pretty OS to convince people they are getting 'quality'.  No Macbook is tougher than my Thinkpad.  Anyone have a Macbook certified for space flight by NASA?  Of course not.  Anyway, I always believe if you want something done right, you gotta do it yourself.  If you want to do as little yourself as possible then Apple is perfect.  I'm sure one day when Apple tackles thinking for yourself, there'll be an 'App for that'.  From the looks of it, it's been under development and in Beta for sometime now.  I did buy a Macbook for my mother thinking it would save me time from troubleshooting and explaining technicalities.  Hasn't turned out that simply though.  Kind of like picking a different sound signature.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Anaxilus, I would like to disagree.

For one, in addition to my Apple gear, I run a couple of Linux boxes, as well as some old machines. I built the Linux boxes myself, installed the software, and know how to maintain Linux. I started running Linux back at the end of 2002, so I know my way around the command line. When I want to muck around with computer stuff, I really enjoy Linux. Also, I really enjoy the fact that I can ignore the Linux boxes for months and they stay up.

On the other hand, I like OS X and iOS because of the ease of use and lack of issues.

I'll take a guess that you're young, probably still in school, and have some free time to poke around with a PC. That's great, and I hope you enjoy having a lot of empty hours. But your life won't always be like that.

I'll be 38 in a couple of weeks and have a job that works me something around 60-90 hours a week. When I have free time, I help run a family business. I've got a few other obligations and commitments, as well. That leaves me maybe 10-15 hours a week to screw around.

If you had 10-15 hours a week, would you want to spend three or four of those maintaining Windows? I sure as hell don't. You can make noise about the additional cost, but when you've put in nine years of higher ed and make a fair amount of money, a few hundred extra is nothing. Further, you usually make that up on the other end because Apple gear tends to hold its value. So the additional cost is very little. The benefit of being able to instantly check email, go online, type a document, without having to do heavy maintenance is a blessing when you're pinched for time.

Windows just isn't worth it. Aside form games (which I don't play), there's no good reason not to run OS X or Linux. They're stable, they have years of uptime, and you can count on them to work. When you're older, and have lots of obligations and possibly a family, the last thing you're going to want to do is spend a lot of time keeping a computer running. We're a good 30 years into the computer revolution - there's no excuse for unreliability.

 

[Anaxilus]

Well, I'm 35 and a Veteran so I have been around.  As a matter of fact, my Thinkpad went to war and still works despite the Pelican case being destroyed.  I'd like to see a Macbook do that.   It still has some moondust from the desert in it too.  I don't spend any excess time 'maintaining' Windows.  Dollar for Dollar I get greater quality and flexibility in an equally reliable and better performing package IME.  My PC is 5 years old w/ relatively minor upgrades (couple sticks of RAM and a faster GPU).  It was better than any Mac when I built it then and arguably just as good or better as anything they make now from factory.  My handpicked components keep humming along.  When I bought my Mother's Macbook w/ Snow Leopard the first thing it did was crash.  My best friends Macbook fried itself, his sister's crashes and has compatibility issues w/ 3rd party stuff.  Sorry, I don't buy the Apple 'convenience'.  Just not for me.  Apparently not so much for you if you are maintaining a couple of Linux boxes?  I digress...I never said one was better anyway.  Just another sound signature.  Different strokes for different folks.  I'll take my Touch Pro 2 over any iPhone anyday also.
 
Edit - Do you know how many times iTunes has ruined my Audio archive?  How many times I have had to rerip my collection??  It's great when an iPod w/ the wrong setting tries to sync w/ your collection and throws your whole archive into a mass grave of a folder called 'Various'.  How about importing Apple lossless ripped from a previous version of iTunes into a newer version?  Yeah, the epitome of wasted time.  Apple can burn in hell.  I should stop, the more I think about apple the angry I get.

 

[mrarroyo]

Time for a beer!

 

[krmathis]

...and the pointless discussion just go on and on and on and on....

 

[Skrying]

A Windows system could easily be just as easy to use from the start if OEMs would not ruin the experience from the start. Honest. Microsoft makes some tremendously good software that is absolutely free but never gets preloaded because Microsoft won't pay the OEMs to do so. Much of the price on a low end computer is offset by those bundled applications. It's sad but a reality when you're looking for a $400 machine.
 
It would be wonderful with a new Windows 7 computer if you got Windows 7 + Microsoft Security Essentials + Windows Live Essentials. That's all the average user needs. For the most part it's all very good software too!
 
Windows 7 is great. It is not garbage by default. OEMs trying to make every last penny make it garbage. It doesn't take a PC expert to make Windows 7 great, it takes OEMs who would be willing to charge $20 more a system to make it great.

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

...and the pointless discussion just go on and on and on and on....

So I guess you just have to post something like this in a 'pointless' thread to get to 33,107.  Maybe you should avoid posting or reading threads that don't interest you.  Did you run out of applications to run on your Macbook?

 

[Uncle Erik]

Anaxilus, I don't doubt your experiences, but I just haven't had the problems you describe. If I did, then yes, I might feel differently.


However, my brother-in-law and I converted the entire family (even extended family) mostly to OS X. That was because we were tired of fielding free "service calls" from family when their Windows boxes went down. I'd say there are a good 20 machines running and neither of us have had to help anyone out so far. We've lended a hand hooking up new gear, but have yet to have a panicky phone call because something doesn't work. We've got a few running Ubuntu because they didn't want to buy new computers. They don't have problems, either.

I should add that I also keep some old machines alive. There a Mac IIfx and SE30 still going with System 6.0.8, an old Apple ][gs and even a NeXT Cube and an old Sun with a SPARC inside. I don't have a lot of time to play with them these days, but these machines have held up the better part of 20 years.

Also, I don't take computers into the field. I do think highly of the ThinkPads - my brother-in-law runs one with Ubuntu and loves it. If I had to go into rough situations, it would be at the top of my list. But around town, air travel, and the usual urban thing, the MacBook hasn't given me any trouble.

Linux doesn't require much maintenance. I still have Fedora 4 running on one machine. I haven't checked the uptime lately, but it's into years at this point. When it goes down, like you, I'll put high quality parts into the case and I'm sure I'll get several good years out of it. Better than a Mac? I don't know, but I don't think Apple is the only good manufacturer out there. There's a lot of good manufacturers.

Windows 7 might be better than Microsoft's previous offerings, but Microsoft has repeatedly torched my faith. Even if they offer a good product, I'm pretty leery of them. I don't do business with United Airlines or Bank of America for the same reason. I don't care if Microsoft has cleaned up its act, I don't trust them. Maybe they will some day, but for now, I don't see any reason to do business with them again.

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

Anaxilus, I don't doubt your experiences, but I just haven't had the problems you describe. If I did, then yes, I might feel differently.

Also, I don't take computers into the field. I do think highly of the ThinkPads - my brother-in-law runs one with Ubuntu and loves it. If I had to go into rough situations, it would be at the top of my list. But around town, air travel, and the usual urban thing, the MacBook hasn't given me any trouble.

Windows 7 might be better than Microsoft's previous offerings, but Microsoft has repeatedly torched my faith. Even if they offer a good product, I'm pretty leery of them. I don't do business with United Airlines or Bank of America for the same reason. I don't care if Microsoft has cleaned up its act, I don't trust them. Maybe they will some day, but for now, I don't see any reason to do business with them again.

Everything you said is exactly how I feel about Apple.  Sounds like you and I are on two different sides of the same fence, strangely enough for pretty much the same reasons.  
 

 

[ozz]

I started out using a PC as most of my friends and still have to use one at work but since one of my friends convinced me to try a Mac I have not looked back
sold all of my PC 's and on my second MacBook Pro they may not be for everyone but for what I use it for it works well.

 

[mikaronni]

I've basically been using a PC all my life. My most recent one was a HP desktop, but its motherboard kept dying despite 4 replacements. I was tired of lousy customer service, so I felt like the dead computer was a great opportunity to switch over to mac and picked up an iMac on sale over the holidays. 
It's been about 8 months since I've had my iMac and with the small issues I've had, Apple has been more than pleasant to deal with. It was such a refreshing thing to be able to talk with a representative immediately and go to the Genius Bar for immediate fixes. 
Aside from that though, Mac OS X has not been all that "wow" for me. I have a netbook that I use to take to class that runs Windows 7. In terms of usability, I feel Windows 7 is just better. The Dashboard feature on Mac is nice, but Windows' taskbar just simplifies things greatly. Also, I thought I would get used to having one menu bar, but it's still pretty annoying after all these months. Maybe it would be fine on the 13" Macbook, but when moving the mouse across the 21.5" screen, it's just bothersome (sounds petty but when doing that constantly, it just sucks). I also love how Windows gives you so many more options when you right-click an item.  
After these experiences, I'm probably going to switch back to a PC. At the price point of the iMac, I think its quite reasonable when comparing to other competitors' all-in-one computers. However, it was really surprising when I calculated how much $1000 can do when assembling your own computer. The components and power are outstanding. My brothers have always been building their own computers that last for many, many years and have minimal problems and its simple for them to replace components if anything fails. I'm probably going to follow this, since it is nice to just swap out major components without actually having to get a new computer. 
All in all, this is a nice experience to use a mac though. It at least finally gets rid of my urge to buy Apple computers. I will miss the form factor, how great the iMac looks, and the customer service, but all that is just not worth it for the faults I find in OSX. 

 

[elbuzzard]

Quote:

 I will miss the form factor, how great the iMac looks, and the customer service, but all that is just not worth it for the faults I find in OSX. 

you named two faults:  right click options and having one menu bar.   How about mixing in some keyboard shortcuts?  just sayin.

 

[mikaronni]

You bring up a good point elbuzzard. I guess there are other "faults", but they don't seem fair, because I've been raised using Windows so I know my way around that operating system more comprehensively. In the end, it's probably just my preference.

In a way, this "how I was raised" reasoning sort of applies to keyboard shortcuts. I've never had to use them before, so I'm really used to just using the mouse. 
 
In no way am I saying OSX is bad. I was able to learn how to use it in a day easily, but again, I just prefer Windows 7. I guess hearing rave reviews of macs, I expected something that wasn't there. People would tell me that they can't go back to Windows after using OSX, but I find this to be false. (Then again, this was back in the Vista days.) I can go back to Windows 7 and be perfectly fine with it. 

 

[grawk]

You can do quite a bit with right clicks on the mac.  Basically the same things you can do in windows.