[dirkpitt45]

I Lol'd at the $3500 for a laptop in the OP. 
 
 
Only thing I have against Macs is the price, my 1.2k pc demolishes the 5k mac pro. The hardware is pleasing to the eye, but not to the brain. I'll take an pc any day for as long as apple keep charging double their hardware prices with shiny white and silver bodies... 
 
Also at the whole "maintaining your pc" thing, other then cleaning out my hardrives I really don't do anything "maintenance" other then day1 set up. I've worked in IT repair for a few years and I learned that almost all pc problems are user created. Hardly ever ran into anything (software wise) that broke itself (other then known bad programming). Which stands to reason Macs are easier to use, and people are lazy. Seems to be a winning combo for apple, can't say I blame them for the huge mark-ups, I just won't buy any though.    

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

I've worked in IT repair for a few years and I learned that almost all pc problems are user created. Hardly ever ran into anything (software wise) that broke itself (other then known bad programming). Which stands to reason Macs are easier to use, and people are lazy. Seems to be a winning combo for apple, can't say I blame them for the huge mark-ups, I just won't buy any though.    

QFT.  
 
When you have a Vulcan deathgrip on available content you reduce the potential for third party and user error, Linux kernel or not.  I still think Windows 7 is a more user friendly GUI than OSX, YMMV.  Sadly if Windows Phone 7 is an indication of the future of MSFT I'll be dumping them just like Apple.  I don't believe in paying someone to restrict my freedom as a tech user.

 

[dirkpitt45]

^ TBH, windows phone 6.5 is complete crap for the most part. Though there was an update for the zune software, and now there's a bunch of windows phone 7 apps and stuff, along with a whole place for movies and t.v. shows, exactly like itunes. And I'm in Canada, so of course still no apps for my zune hd, but apps for win phone 7 which hasn't even had a Canadian carrier announced.... I'm sure WP7 will be miles ahead of 6.5. 
 
Though it's true that windows 7 with a rocket dock or object dock, UAC disabled, and ultramon (if you have more then one monitor) is pretty hard to beat in terms of usability. Plus I find .dmg files to an annoying format for an installer package. From my (limited) experience they seemed to act exactly like an .iso file would on a pc. Which seems like a rather broken file type to use, though it would save on programming time, treat everything as a disc and don't worry about it. 

 

[sphinxvc]

Quote:

When you have a Vulcan deathgrip on available content you reduce the potential for third party and user error, Linux kernel or not. 

 
Controlling their products is what makes Apple so successful, they seem to have concern about what kind of experience reaches their users. It has it's drawbacks of course, people don't like to be controlled.  So it's that and their award winning design both with their operating system and machines.  I own a Macbook Pro and it's physical design is awesome.  No unnecessary blinking lights, for example, and just plain clean cut and functional, after all, that's what design is about, contrary to what most people think.  Looking good is just a by product of keeping things simple, not vanity.  I find the trackpad is of a much higher quality (more responsive) than what you get with most Windows laptops.  Some people find that not having a dedicated right click button is bothersome, but it's a matter of placing two fingers on the trackpad and clicking the button, I think that takes the same amount of calories as moving your thumb to the right click on a windows laptop trackpad.  I think most people that have trouble using Apple OS X are usually those that have to adjust to it after acclimatizing to a Windows environment.  Similar to older people having trouble with learning new languages.  Kids and people willing to learn something new would have zero problem getting comfortable with OS X.  Apple cares about design more than Windows which is great because every new OS from Windows picks up some things from OS X.  Compare Apple's System Preferences menu to Windows Control Panel.  You'll see what I mean about better functional design.  Apple has a higher priority for information organization and user experience.  Windows has other priorities, it of course, is more flexible with hardware and software and thereby more cutting edge.  
 
The biggest problem with Macs as I've come to understand are their prices.  The only way you can get a Mac for as much as a PC is to buy a horribly broken one and repair it yourself, speaking from experience.  And even still, the PC market is so much more cutting edge hardware wise.  There's a 18" Toshiba laptop out there with a 2.53GHZ i5 - 4GB DDR3 - 500GB HD & 1.5GB VRAM for $1200.  A Mac couldn't compete with those specs at that price till 2014, guaranteed.  That Toshiba is looking tempting so it's a good thing Macs have good resale value - 800 for my 2007 MBP!  =P  

 

[Roger Strummer]

Quote:

 
The biggest problem with Macs as I've come to understand are their prices.  The only way you can get a Mac for as much as a PC is to buy a horribly broken one and repair it yourself, speaking from experience.  And even still, the PC market is so much more cutting edge hardware wise.  There's a 18" Toshiba laptop out there with a 2.53GHZ i5 - 4GB DDR3 - 500GB HD & 1.5GB VRAM for $1200.  A Mac couldn't compete with those specs at that price till 2014, guaranteed.  That Toshiba is looking tempting so it's a good thing Macs have good resale value - 800 for my 2007 MBP!  =P  

You are sort of right. IMO if you want exactly the kind of machines apple offers, then they are more expensive but it is not that bad. But if you want something slightly different, then you are screwed. For example, I've been looking at both gaming laptops and ultraportables, and Apple's offerings are not that great for my use now, I can get exactly what I need from a PC without having what I don't need, for example if I want a Core i5 with cool graphics card and 13'' or lower, then my luck is out with Apple, they don't even give me the choice to spend in their computers. And don't get me started with their desktops, I've been so disappointed with their offerings for ages now.
 
So bottom line I think the biggest problem is lack of choice, it gets frustrating very fast.

 

[ls20]

i feel the same.  i started on IBM-compatible PCs 16 years ago in grade school.  many custom builds, workstations, laptops, netbooks later, i got a 13" unibody MBP.  999$ (+tax) out the door at a local store.  OS initialized after about 3 questions, has virtually never needed to shut down/reboot, keeps a long charge, and wakes up in a snap of finger. 
 
for those who wants to clean prepackaged crapware; hunt through %program files, %app data and delete remnants files even after an uninstall; peck through registry for start references sometimes in hklm, sometimes hkcu, sometimes hku; win.ini; startup folder.... brag about how many KB on their L3 cache...  more power to them.
 
 
for day to day usage, the mac hardware and software works, seamlessly, EASILY, and without fail. good enough for me. 
Quote:

That's obviously your choice.  When I was younger, I spent more time tinkering with things for fun as well.  

 

[MadCow]

Thought I'd share my Mac story here...
 
This was last year when I was looking for a laptop for portable photo editing -- so my main criterias were a good screen, lightweight and long battery life.
 
My major obstacle in choosing a computer was the "good screen" criteria. Most notebook review sites were too subjective about the screen and did not give out any information that I found useful. I eventually found notebookcheck.net, which not only measured brightness and contrast ratios but also color gamut as well. However, they did not measure this for all their reviews. I suppose if they didn't measure it, it probably wasn't good enough to be worth the time.
 
So after a bunch of searching, I eventually narrowed down my selection to a MacBook Pro, a Dell Studio XPS 16 with RGBLED upgrade, or a high end Dell Precision M6400 with RGBLED upgrade. Those were the only three practical options that I thought I'd be able to find locally, and all three had very good color representation for a laptop screen.
 
I was turned off by the Precision's price, and wasn't too impressed with the XPS 16's battery life and weight. If I'm already carrying >10kg of camera equipment on my back, I'd want the laptop to be as light as possible. So my final choice was a 13" MBP, and as an added bonus it was the cheapest option among the three.

 

[immtbiker]

 

After using PC's since Windows 1.0 and Macbooks for the last 10 years. I choose the Macbooks any day. My boot-up and shutdown time is less than 10 seconds, I can actually shut my cover for a month without coming back to a blue screen of death, consistently, and my connection to any wireless network, being it home or hotel is also done in a matter of seconds. I can count on one hand, the number of times my last 3 Macbook laptops have actually locked up.
 
As with all things, I'm willing to pay a little more for something that actually works. I have owned home PC's and at least 10 work laptops and they are nothing but constant trouble.
I'm going with the path of least resistance. Apple.
 
Their 3G Touch and 5G Nano are wonderful components also.
​

 

[sphinxvc]

Quote:

You are sort of right. IMO if you want exactly the kind of machines apple offers, then they are more expensive but it is not that bad. But if you want something slightly different, then you are screwed. For example, I've been looking at both gaming laptops and ultraportables, and Apple's offerings are not that great for my use now, I can get exactly what I need from a PC without having what I don't need, for example if I want a Core i5 with cool graphics card and 13'' or lower, then my luck is out with Apple, they don't even give me the choice to spend in their computers. And don't get me started with their desktops, I've been so disappointed with their offerings for ages now.
 
So bottom line I think the biggest problem is lack of choice, it gets frustrating very fast.

I agree.  If you're a power user or budget user, Windows is the way to go.  If you're like what 95% of users in the world are like, Mac's probably the way to go, if you can afford one.
 
 
 
 

 

[DJGeorgeT]

A good mac is a dead mac.

 

[dirkpitt45]

 

I agree.  If you're a power user or budget user, Windows is the way to go.  If you're like what 95% of users in the world are like, Mac's probably the way to go, if you can afford one.
 

 
Um pretty sure apple has a %10.6 share (http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/13/idc-apples-now-third-largest-pc-vendor-in-us-with-10-6-percent/), and if %95 of people used macs we'd be stuck at least a generation or two behind, hardware wise, indefinetly. 
 
Windows is not budget, but it can be, windows is versatile.
 
The issue with Macs is the same as Monster (excluding the turbine series, more pertaining to beats and cables). All you're paying for is the "precision aluminum unibody enclosure", a white LED, some gray paint, and the oh so glorious fact that you own a mac. You're paying for the name and not the hardware. There is no point in defending apple's prices or performance/price ratio, if you have money to burn and want to feel special, by all means buy a mac. 
 
Which is perfectly fine, I have nothing against apple or people who use macs. Personally I'm more a price/performance kind of guy, bought a 32gb zune hd for almost half the price of an 8gb touch. I lose the LOD option, but being able to carry my entire library plus a movie or ten is more then a good trade off. I could've bought a macbook, I was honestly about to pull the trigger last year, until I discovered some pc forums. Then I learned a good deal about pc's (much the same as audio and this forum) and I've never considered a mac again. I now have a pc that is ridiculously fast, almost 2tb of internal storage including a SSD, a 5870, and it cost me a good deal less the 15" macbook pro I was eyeing.

 

[ls20]

pretty funny you say that, because i dropped off my dell m6400 (same as above) to the IT group today so they could reformat it.  problem?  it locks up 50% when computer goes to sleep.  i like that i can shut the cover on the mbp, flip it open, and surf the web and not seemingly have to sit and wait for the wireless connect to re-establish. 
 
if i hook it up to an external monitor (whether a television, projector, or 2nd monitor), i can yank the connection and get back to work.  theres no Fn + F7... no forcing a switch of the display... no restoring of the original resolution.... it just does what you want
Quote:

 

After using PC's since Windows 1.0 and Macbooks for the last 10 years. I choose the Macbooks any day. My boot-up and shutdown time is less than 10 seconds, I can actually shut my cover for a month without coming back to a blue screen of death, consistently, and my connection to any wireless network, being it home or hotel is also done in a matter of seconds. I can count on one hand, the number of times my last 3 Macbook laptops have actually locked up.
 
As with all things, I'm willing to pay a little more for something that actually works. I have owned home PC's and at least 10 work laptops and they are nothing but constant trouble.
I'm going with the path of least resistance. Apple.
 
Their 3G Touch and 5G Nano are wonderful components also.
​

 

[ls20]

the advantage of an apple laptop is 50% hardware and 50% software.  on a desktop i dont care whats sitting at my feet as much as whats being displayed in front of me.  on a laptop, it very very much matters on the build -- is the screen hinge smooth; does the keyboard type nicely; does the case squeak when you touch it;  does the battery last under reasonable use.  these little things are all a matter of functionality and they do matter.....not to mention the more polished OS.

you say you havent owned an apple computer.  but you read that PCs are better.  way to jump on the bandwagon.   (ps. the apple glasspad is KILLER)
 
computer "speed" hasnt been an issue for me for about 8 years.  the days of hardware as a performance bottleneck for most users has passed.  i dont play games.  i dont use my mac in public.  i dont put the mac sticker on my bumper.  i dont write blogs at starbucks.  its not expensive.  but it is easier to live with day to day.  if you feel some resentment towards a computer based on what you heard from "pc forums", its quite an unfortunate myopia.
Quote:

The issue with Macs is the same as Monster (excluding the turbine series, more pertaining to beats and cables). All you're paying for is the "precision aluminum unibody enclosure", a white LED, some gray paint, and the oh so glorious fact that you own a mac. You're paying for the name and not the hardware. There is no point in defending apple's prices or performance/price ratio, if you have money to burn and want to feel special, by all means buy a mac. 
 
I could've bought a macbook, I was honestly about to pull the trigger last year, until I discovered some pc forums. Then I learned a good deal about pc's (much the same as audio and this forum) and I've never considered a mac again. I now have a pc that is ridiculously fast, almost 2tb of internal storage including a SSD, a 5870, and it cost me a good deal less the 15" macbook pro I was eyeing.

 

[Roger Strummer]

Quote:

 
 
Um pretty sure apple has a %10.6 share (http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/13/idc-apples-now-third-largest-pc-vendor-in-us-with-10-6-percent/), and if %95 of people used macs we'd be stuck at least a generation or two behind, hardware wise, indefinetly. 
 
Windows is not budget, but it can be, windows is versatile.
 
The issue with Macs is the same as Monster (excluding the turbine series, more pertaining to beats and cables). All you're paying for is the "precision aluminum unibody enclosure", a white LED, some gray paint, and the oh so glorious fact that you own a mac. You're paying for the name and not the hardware. There is no point in defending apple's prices or performance/price ratio, if you have money to burn and want to feel special, by all means buy a mac. 
 
Which is perfectly fine, I have nothing against apple or people who use macs. Personally I'm more a price/performance kind of guy, bought a 32gb zune hd for almost half the price of an 8gb touch. I lose the LOD option, but being able to carry my entire library plus a movie or ten is more then a good trade off. I could've bought a macbook, I was honestly about to pull the trigger last year, until I discovered some pc forums. Then I learned a good deal about pc's (much the same as audio and this forum) and I've never considered a mac again. I now have a pc that is ridiculously fast, almost 2tb of internal storage including a SSD, a 5870, and it cost me a good deal less the 15" macbook pro I was eyeing.

Actually that 10% figure is only in the US, worldwide Apple is not even a top 5 manufacturer, with a market share that probably hovers around 5%. But yeah, with lack of options there comes the thing that you end up paying for things that doesn't matter to you. If you want them then everything is great and Apple's hardware is just slightly more expensive, but if you don't want them then you can get much better deals for your needs, just as you did.
 
Quote:

 

After using PC's since Windows 1.0 and Macbooks for the last 10 years. I choose the Macbooks any day. My boot-up and shutdown time is less than 10 seconds, I can actually shut my cover for a month without coming back to a blue screen of death, consistently, and my connection to any wireless network, being it home or hotel is also done in a matter of seconds. I can count on one hand, the number of times my last 3 Macbook laptops have actually locked up.
 
As with all things, I'm willing to pay a little more for something that actually works. I have owned home PC's and at least 10 work laptops and they are nothing but constant trouble.
I'm going with the path of least resistance. Apple.
 
Their 3G Touch and 5G Nano are wonderful components also.
​

I agree that macs tend to be more reliable for people that don't want to fiddle with their computers, but the situation with both windows and linux is that they are not far behind if any, win7 was a very good release and linux can be great for some needs. Although personally I think it is not a race of what computer/OS is the best, but which one sucks less, there hasn't been any computer or OS that I've owned that I didn't want to throw out the window pretty frequently.
 
Also Apple's hardware is far from perfect, since times of the ibook G4 they have produced quite a few lemons, its also a matter of luck, I've seen great experiences with PC's and macs, and awful experiences with both.

 

[sphinxvc]

The sad thing about these "whose idea was it" Windows 7 commercials is that it was Apple's idea, when they made OS X.  7 is basically Windows with features of OS X added to it.  Its great, cause Windows is finally intuitive.