[thrillhaus]

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I find this thread amazing ... amazingly odd.
 
Has it ever crossed your minds that perhaps you have the wrong headphone?
 
Not just that but just moving headphones around your ears you can change sound considerably, more so than by adding stuff to your cans..
 
To go through so much trouble and then STILL have to equalize the phones is not exactly a result. Dont forget, music is not just recorded differently but different genres place different demands on phones so no one headphone will be perfect for everything.
 
You guys need to find a happy compromise and start listen to music again instead of making  'modifications' to headphones which, ultimately, perhaps create more problems than they solve, especially if you dont have the technical equipment to measure your 'progress'.
 
No offense to anyone by the way. It does make for funny reading.
 
regards
 
 

Maybe we would rather spend the time doing mods, having fun along the way, rather than just throwing money at our problems. I got my D2k because I found a great deal on a second hand pair. If I didn't like it, I could easily pass it on to someone else at no loss. I have everything to gain and nothing to lose from tinkering with them to better suit my preferences.
 

 

[drummerman]

 
 


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Maybe we would rather spend the time doing mods, having fun along the way, rather than just throwing money at our problems. I got my D2k because I found a great deal on a second hand pair. If I didn't like it, I could easily pass it on to someone else at no loss. I have everything to gain and nothing to lose from tinkering with them to better suit my preferences.
 

It's only a great deal if you like them.
 
I shouldnt have knocked you lot for attempting to create a 'better' HP.
 
Problem is, the Denons Dxxxx series is already one of the best measuring  dynamic products out there. Anything (drastic) you do will more likely upset an already fine balance.
 
We're all different and HP's are a very personal thing but if it were me, I'd try the Jmoney pads which if anything, make the frequency response even more linear and probably add to the second hand value if for whatever reason you decide to sell them. For anyone else who thinks they are 'nearly there' with the D2000/5000 but still not quite happy, the afromentioned HD650 will probably come very close in most respects whilst taking a bit of the 'edge' ie. the slight 1khz hump. You'll also gain a bit of stage.
 
Perhaps, before jumping into drastic mods, make sure you use a Headphone amplifier with low output impedance so not to affect frequency response of different phones.
 
regards
 

 

[hans030390]

They do measure well, especially from 30Hz to 1KHz. However, there is a noticeable dip starting right after there till about 6KHz (with a small peak at 4KHz), where it then shoots back up. That, and there's that bump at 1KHz. In reality, this gives you a slightly boomy sounding headphone with some parts of the mids and treble being recessed and some being more pronounced. It doesn't sound bad by any means, really, but I found I preferred a sound closer to something like the HD598. The HD598 has a huge soundstage and beautiful mids (very flat from 1KHz to 10KHz compared to D2000). Opening up my D2000s gave me all that and more. 
 
The peak I'm hearing at 4KHz really isn't THAT big of a deal. I was listening to a wide selection of music and found that some albums sound great with it. Very little sibilance or other weird effects from a 4KHz peak. Other albums made it more noticeable. I do think that the headphones are much more sensitive and less forgiving of the source material now. Either way, I'll get it ironed out eventually for smooth listening all around.

 

[TMRaven]

1-4khz is also the frequency we're most sensitive to, so I don't see anything wrong with the D2000 having a dip in that range if you ask me.  I personally think they sound more flat than the HD598-- the 598 sounded like an upside-down U.
 
Look at the raw readings of either headphone and see which one looks more flat.
 
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/DenonAHD2000.pdf
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserHD598.pdf
 
Even something like the DT880-- which is praised for its overall neutrality, has a very U shaped compensated graph. 
 
I can see how an open-canned D2000 would get rid of some of the bass, making it more ideal for some listeners, but the bass isn't as boomy and bloated as some make it out to seem.  It can be, but only when improperly amped.
 

 

[thrillhaus]

Quote:

It's only a great deal if you like them.
 
...
 
We're all different and HP's are a very personal thing but if it were me, I'd try the Jmoney pads which if anything, make the frequency response even more linear and probably add to the second hand value if for whatever reason you decide to sell them. For anyone else who thinks they are 'nearly there' with the D2000/5000 but still not quite happy, the afromentioned HD650 will probably come very close in most respects whilst taking a bit of the 'edge' ie. the slight 1khz hump. You'll also gain a bit of stage.

 
Deals are judged by market value, not sentimental value. Since I could resell for a profit if I wanted to, I'd consider that a great deal. It was an opportunity to try a new pair of headphones are no risk, so why not?
 
As for the JMoney pads, I will probably invest in those for the MarkL mod. However, the open back mod can be done without any cost, so there is no reason not to try it for curiosity's sake
 
Quote:

1-4khz is also the frequency we're most sensitive to, so I don't see anything wrong with the D2000 having a dip in that range if you ask me.  I personally think they sound more flat than the HD598-- the 598 sounded like an upside-down U.
 
Look at the raw readings of either headphone and see which one looks more flat.
 
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/DenonAHD2000.pdf
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserHD598.pdf
 
Even something like the DT880-- which is praised for its overall neutrality, has a very U shaped compensated graph. 
 
I can see how an open-canned D2000 would get rid of some of the bass, making it more ideal for some listeners, but the bass isn't as boomy and bloated as some make it out to seem.  It can be, but only when improperly amped.
 

The Dx000 series is anything but neutral though. That's been pretty well established. Making it open not only reduces the bass, but the soundstage becomes huge. The best amplification in the world can't make as much of a difference as the basic acoustic properties of the hardware.
 
 
 
If we're done justifying ourselves, can we go back to discussing this mod?
 

 

[hans030390]

Quote:

1-4khz is also the frequency we're most sensitive to, so I don't see anything wrong with the D2000 having a dip in that range if you ask me.  I personally think they sound more flat than the HD598-- the 598 sounded like an upside-down U.
 
Look at the raw readings of either headphone and see which one looks more flat.
 
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/DenonAHD2000.pdf
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserHD598.pdf
 
Even something like the DT880-- which is praised for its overall neutrality, has a very U shaped compensated graph. 
 
I can see how an open-canned D2000 would get rid of some of the bass, making it more ideal for some listeners, but the bass isn't as boomy and bloated as some make it out to seem.  It can be, but only when improperly amped.
 

I could be very wrong here, but I believe the graphs are compensated with average human hearing in mind, meaning it would take into account what areas we're more sensitive to. You have the raw measurements below and the averaged/compensated measurements above. In that case, a peak at 4KHz really would mean a peak at 4KHz to our hearing. Again, I could be wrong.
 
Also, I think those graphs make it quite clear that the HD598 is much more flat and neutral between 1.5KHz-10KHz. The Denons are arguably flatter before 1KHz, though that 1KHz bump does skew that somewhat.
 
I too think people exaggerate how boomy and bloated the Denon headphones are. Properly amped, they really sound quite good and mostly balanced. That said, after comparing it to something like the HD598 (which, I do think has a slight upside down U sound signature), it's quite apparent that the D2000s are lacking in the midrange and definitely in overall terms of soundstage, imaging, and a natural sound. Having heard what a fairly accurate pair of bookshelf speakers sound like, I can again confirm that, at least to me, the HD598s had a more natural sound as a whole (but not in all areas). This is especially true in the midrange.
 
What are the HD598s lacking? Well, bass extension and punch. They're also slightly veiled sounding (only noticeable in A/B comparisons), though this provides for a very, very smooth listening experience. The open D2000 extends further with bass than the HD598 and still retains great bass punch. It also sounds clearer as a whole, with better treble extension. It also matches or beats it in terms of soundstaging and imaging. On top of that, there is almost no way you can call the mids recessed on them after modding them. Aside from some slight aggressiveness and sibilance, I'd say they match the HD598 in that area.
 
Anyway, there's no point in debating on what headphone is more neutral or better sounding than another. As I repeat over and over, you can try this mod out in a 100% reversible way. At that point, it's more of a "why not try it?" than a "why do this?".
 

 

[lee730]

I think I'd like to do something similar to this but how they are currently kinda reminds me of my former EX1000s with the spike in the treble, but much more full sounding and not quite as fatiguing. I actually kinda like it.
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Ok, so I took a few hours and put some acoustic foam/sound dampening material in the cups and on the back of the drivers (as seen in the Markl mod). It's not Dynamat, but something normally sold for computer case.
 
I'll be posting more details and pictures later, but first impressions indicate that it definitely makes them sound even better. Slightly more refined and, most importantly, slightly less sibilant and bright. I'm still EQing them a bit around 4KHz and 7KHz, but I've found that I don't need to attenuate them as much as before to be satisfied. Even without EQ, they're easier to listen to.
 
I haven't done all the dampening I want to do yet, so this is just a marker for my progress.

 

 

[thrillhaus]

So I was puzzled over designing some sort of locking mechanism for changing the cups without opening the chassis when I realized that the screws holding the cups are accessible from the four holes that the pads lock into. So then since one would be changing the pads when switching between the open and closed modes of the mod anyway, they can simply change the cups after taking off the pads. The only caveat is that the screws are made of a softer material that the chassis screws, and might get worn down from repeated use. Therefore, I'll need to source out some stronger screws if I'm going to be changing cups often.
 
Now the only thing left is to modify the tabs on the stock pads to lock in with a raised configuration.

 

[TMRaven]

Yes, the HD598 lack in bass extension, power and treble extension for me compared to the D2000.  The D2000 sounds more akin to a pair of studio monitors to me than the 598s do, while the 598s sound more like a pair of warm hi-fi speakers.  I will definitely take the backs off of the D2000 to see how they sound, and see just how much of their beautiful bass and extension they lose.  I bet their long term comfort rises considerably as well.

 

[smilence]

Really interesting idea

 

[hans030390]

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I think I'd like to do something similar to this but how they are currently kinda reminds me of my former EX1000s with the spike in the treble, but much more full sounding and not quite as fatiguing. I actually kinda like it.

I'll try to post more details on my dampening stuff soon, including pictures, what materials I used, how it affected the sound, etc.
 
Quote:

So I was puzzled over designing some sort of locking mechanism for changing the cups without opening the chassis when I realized that the screws holding the cups are accessible from the four holes that the pads lock into. So then since one would be changing the pads when switching between the open and closed modes of the mod anyway, they can simply change the cups after taking off the pads. The only caveat is that the screws are made of a softer material that the chassis screws, and might get worn down from repeated use. Therefore, I'll need to source out some stronger screws if I'm going to be changing cups often.
 
Now the only thing left is to modify the tabs on the stock pads to lock in with a raised configuration.

Yeah, I've heard the screws they used aren't too great...hopefully this doesn't turn into an issue for me.
 
Quote:

Yes, the HD598 lack in bass extension, power and treble extension for me compared to the D2000.  The D2000 sounds more akin to a pair of studio monitors to me than the 598s do, while the 598s sound more like a pair of warm hi-fi speakers.  I will definitely take the backs off of the D2000 to see how they sound, and see just how much of their beautiful bass and extension they lose.  I bet their long term comfort rises considerably as well.

Honestly, I think the open D2000 takes the strengths of both the stock D2000 and HD598 and combines them together, minus the peaks I've mentioned.
 
If you try it out, make sure you do both the cup removal and placing the earpads on the frame of the headphone (using the plastic locking pegs to lift it up). Without the earpad being raised, I found them to be very bloated, muddy, and slow sounding with the cups off.
 
It might be beneficial to try different earpads entirely on the open D2000. The seal between the earpads and the headphone itself is what causes the bloated, muddy sound with the cups off. I know other earpads are designed to let the air flow through more freely, which generally results in less bass. I'm too short on money right now to be trying that, but that is another potential area to look into. I might try tuning the area between the earpads and the frame of the headphone to see what that gives me. I'd guess that lessening the airflow might help reduce the spikes in the midrange and treble I'm hearing (or just make it muddy sounding again).
 

 

[hans030390]

Again, I plan on posting more details later, but I think I've solved my problem. While experimenting, I found that if I put my finger up against the middle hole on the back of the driver (it's covered by a type of paper), the sound dramatically changes for the worse. The bass disappears, the soundstage goes away, and all you're left with is lifeless midrange and treble. Really, it sounds awful. One thing that interested me was that when doing this, I noticed the 4KHz range dramatically increased. There was an audible "ssssss" noise to everything. I verified it as the 4KHz range by boosting up that band in my EQ. Same "sssss" noise. 
 
I put two and two together...the more objects I put in front of the hole on the back of the driver, even if an inch away, the more certain frequencies got boosted. So, I was wondering what it would sound like if there was nothing blocking that hole. I took a big risk and removed the paper covering it.
 
I'm glad I did it. It made a remarkable difference. The sound is much, much smoother now. That nasty 4KHz peak is much better now, and the headphones in general are much easier on the ears now. The downside? The bass is less tight now. It's a bit muddier now. The sound in general seems less agile than before. Some of the midrange also backed off a tiny, tiny bit, but it's still more pronounced than stock. Don't get me wrong, though. It's all very slight. The detail is still there. The amazing soundstage is still there. Imaging is still great. Was it worth it? Definitely. I traded those nasty peaks for a bit of loosening in the bass. I imagine this could easily be ironed out by fooling around with different dampening materials and the like.
 
I know this is the kind of thing that will really divide people, given this is a permanent change and risky. But, for me, it fixed the issues I was having. I also don't mind a bit of extra bass than completely neutral, so long as it's still relatively in line and not bloated.

 

[drummerman]

I wont knock you anymore for your quest for the perfect D2000 but urge you to try the 650, perhaps the 600 if you want medium fast/fast.
 
'Sound stage' is not huge (often a bi-word for diffuse rather than genuine large and focused aka open Audio Technicas) but they seem what you are aiming for.
 
Of course, if you arrive at your audio destination by modding the Denon, good for you.
 
regards

 

[hans030390]

So many headphones I want to try. So little money to spend on trying headphones.
 
Though these do have a very wide soundstage, they seem to do a great job at the depth of the sound as well. Things aren't wide for the sake of being wide. If the music calls for someone whispering in your ear softly, it will sound like they're right next to you whispering. At the same time, if someone is yelling at you from a distance, they sound far away. Similarly, if something is right next to you but also causing echoes off the walls in the room, you'll hear both the thing next to you intimately and the echoes as if they were the proper distance away.
 
I would love to compare their soundstage to some of the open Audio Technica headphones, the HD600 and HD650, and the AKG K701/702. The open Denons are at least comparable to the HD598, which people tend to say has an excellent soundstage.

 

[thrillhaus]

Quote:

So many headphones I want to try. So little money to spend on trying headphones.
 
Though these do have a very wide soundstage, they seem to do a great job at the depth of the sound as well. Things aren't wide for the sake of being wide. If the music calls for someone whispering in your ear softly, it will sound like they're right next to you whispering. At the same time, if someone is yelling at you from a distance, they sound far away. Similarly, if something is right next to you but also causing echoes off the walls in the room, you'll hear both the thing next to you intimately and the echoes as if they were the proper distance away.
 
I would love to compare their soundstage to some of the open Audio Technica headphones, the HD600 and HD650, and the AKG K701/702. The open Denons are at least comparable to the HD598, which people tend to say has an excellent soundstage.

I have a friend with the AKG K702. I didn't have much to compare to last time I demo'd them, and the setup was far from ideal, but I plan to take another listen and see how the soundstage matches up to the open D2k. The great thing about the open D2k is that the soundstage is opened up in all directions, including forward depth, such that the use of a crossfeed plugin is not necessary.