ONKYO DP-X1 | Dual Sabre Dacs | Balanced | Sabre BTL Amp | MQA | DSD 256 | Android 5 |

[addyg]

if the Android SRC(Sampling Rate Converter) is 44.1 KHz .  I can tell you almost all the big music player app can bypass it. 
 
e.g. UAPP you can select default device sampling rate which show as 48KHz.
 
There are a lot of rumor and misunderstanding of dp-x1 when compare to Fiio x7 .  They are not the same in architech nor software design.

 

[Joe Bloggs]

if the Android SRC(Sampling Rate Converter) is 44.1 KHz .  I can tell you almost all the big music player app can bypass it. 

e.g. UAPP you can select default device sampling rate which show as 48KHz.

There are a lot of rumor and misunderstanding of dp-x1 when compare to Fiio x7 .  They are not the same in architech nor software design.

The Android sample rate differs by device. It is 44.1kHz on the X7 but apparently some multiple of 48kHz on the DP-X1.

Note that CD sourced music (including mp3s and most streamed content) should be 44.1kHz. Hi-res music usually starts at 96kHz. There's little reason the output should be at 48kHz unless you're watching a video or you're resampling.

Again, not that I think resampling, properly done, is a problem.

 

[addyg]

If I understand correctly, the design of dp-x1 is reference to desktop receiver such as Onkyo / Teac .  The CPU board will handle the Android OS and all audio signal will be handle by the separate dac/amp board.  Therefore there is no way the audio signal can bypass the two 9018 dac and reach the amp section for analog output.
 
The Android SRC is a different thing. It is the layer where each music player app interact with the android system. I think the smaller (or non professional ) music app can use android's API to decode the music files so to save a lot of programming. But the larger (or more professional) music player app all rely on their own coding to tune the sound, therefore they will bypass the Android SRC for sure.

 

[ReizeiMako]

 
Reizei, Hi. I'm going to pick up an X7 once the balanced module comes out. I'm trying to decide between the DP-X1 and X7 too. 
 
You said they are about equal in detail, but that the Onkyo is warmer. I would've thought if the vocals were thin and it had sibilance that would mean that the Onkyo is brighter than the X7.
 
Could you verify which one you think is brighter with more treble, and which one is warmer with more mid and mid-bass? 
 
Thanks!

I'm not sure about the definition of terms 'warmer' and 'brighter' in English. Maybe I misunderstood or don't understand these terms completely.
 
To my ears Onkyo has more treble with thin vocal. At the same time its mid-bass is more dominant than X7. Not sure I should call it brighter or warmer lol

 

[edwardsean]

Thanks for breaking it down Rezei!
 
 A bunch of people have said the X7 is warmer than the DPX1 and a bunch have said the exact opposite. 
 
It's helpful to to have more exact information. The fact that the Onkyo has more treble is significant for me and that seems to track with others too. 
 
You mentioned that the Onkyo also has more mid-bass, what about the mid frequencies where the vocals are at? Is it safe to assume that the X7 is thicker and fuller there? 

 

[Joe Bloggs]

If I understand correctly, the design of dp-x1 is reference to desktop receiver such as Onkyo / Teac .  The CPU board will handle the Android OS and all audio signal will be handle by the separate dac/amp board.  Therefore there is no way the audio signal can bypass the two 9018 dac and reach the amp section for analog output.

This doesn't make any sense. The CPU has to send the (digital) audio signals to the DAC for conversion to analog. Both the CPU and DAC are involved in any audio playback. As for Android SRC, it is a digital operation that lies strictly within the responsibility of the CPU (and software).

The Android SRC is a different thing. It is the layer where each music player app interact with the android system. I think the smaller (or non professional ) music app can use android's API to decode the music files so to save a lot of programming. But the larger (or more professional) music player app all rely on their own coding to tune the sound, therefore they will bypass the Android SRC for sure.

Based on my work supporting the FiiO X7 there were very few players that bypassed Android SRC. Poweramp and Neutron didn't. No streaming music app except possibly SoundCloud did. (I just knew that SoundCloud bypassed Android system audio because it had completely broken playback on the X7. I didn't know whether that really meant it would play everything at native res if it worked.) The only app I knew of other than the bundled music player that bypassed SRC and played back properly was HibyMusic.

Neutron may be able to bypass SRC on the DP-X1. The way to tell would be to go to Audio Hardware in settings, uncheck Generic Driver, then see if Frequency at the bottom can be adjusted to some multiple of 44100 (rather than be fixed at 48000 or 192000).

And again with the disclaimer: I don't think there's anything wrong with resampling done correctly.

 

[edwardsean]

New color of Dignis Luno is coming

 
Now that I've lived with the Dignis for a while, I want to say, I'm only more impressed. Using the DPX1 is now a glove-soft pleasure instead of something I used to just tolerate. Now that the weather's getting nice I want to take the DPX1 out on bike rides. Before, I would've been nervous about handling that jagged, slippery casing over pavement. It feels secure in the hand now. Also, because the power button is an "innie" and the rest are "outie," they are surprising easy to find by feel under the Dignis case. 

 

[addyg]

This doesn't make any sense. The CPU has to send the (digital) audio signals to the DAC for conversion to analog. Both the CPU and DAC are involved in any audio playback. As for Android SRC, it is a digital operation that lies strictly within the responsibility of the CPU (and software).
Based on my work supporting the FiiO X7 there were very few players that bypassed Android SRC. Poweramp and Neutron didn't. No streaming music app except possibly SoundCloud did. (I just knew that SoundCloud bypassed Android system audio because it had completely broken playback on the X7. I didn't know whether that really meant it would play everything at native res if it worked.) The only app I knew of other than the bundled music player that bypassed SRC and played back properly was HibyMusic.

Neutron may be able to bypass SRC on the DP-X1. The way to tell would be to go to Audio Hardware in settings, uncheck Generic Driver, then see if Frequency at the bottom can be adjusted to some multiple of 44100 (rather than be fixed at 48000 or 192000).

And again with the disclaimer: I don't think there's anything wrong with resampling done correctly.

 
I think you are commenting the two most successful music player in Android world.  You better talk to Neutron and Poweramp as they both have huge fans and forum of their own.

 

[addyg]

Actually if Fiio team comment on the big music player house such as Neutron and Poweramp.  I think they better prepare some real fact about Android SRC interact with those two successful music player app.
 
As I think Fiio is a hardware company where Neutron and Poweramp is full house of software programmers that they earn their living by selling software / coding.

 

[Joe Bloggs]

My statements are based on solid experience hearing and measuring resampling artifacts out of Poweramp when the X7 was configured to produce artifacts in Android system SRC, and in the case of Neutron, simply looking at the list of sample rates on offer (read: 44100 and no other) was enough to show that it was sample-rate bound.

And for the record, I don't work for or represent FiiO anymore as of April this year. I wouldn't be commenting in this thread otherwise.

 

[Johnny Woody]

This doesn't make any sense. The CPU has to send the (digital) audio signals to the DAC for conversion to analog. Both the CPU and DAC are involved in any audio playback. As for Android SRC, it is a digital operation that lies strictly within the responsibility of the CPU (and software).
Based on my work supporting the FiiO X7 there were very few players that bypassed Android SRC. Poweramp and Neutron didn't. No streaming music app except possibly SoundCloud did. (I just knew that SoundCloud bypassed Android system audio because it had completely broken playback on the X7. I didn't know whether that really meant it would play everything at native res if it worked.) The only app I knew of other than the bundled music player that bypassed SRC and played back properly was HibyMusic.

Neutron may be able to bypass SRC on the DP-X1. The way to tell would be to go to Audio Hardware in settings, uncheck Generic Driver, then see if Frequency at the bottom can be adjusted to some multiple of 44100 (rather than be fixed at 48000 or 192000).

And again with the disclaimer: I don't think there's anything wrong with resampling done correctly.

Just tried to disable the generic Driver option in Neutron, it worked!
Now the frequency is shown as multiple of 44100!

 

[Joe Bloggs]

That's nice--exactly what rates are you able to choose between now in Neutron?

 

[addyg]

A picture is worth of thousand words. This is what foobar2000 can do on Android system. And it is no compare to the already hugely successful Neutron and Poweramp app.

 

[Joe Bloggs]

A picture is worth of thousand words. This is what foobar2000 can do on Android system. And it is no compare to the already hugely successful Neutron and Poweramp app.

That's the internal resampling foobar can do, which has no bearing on what the Android system will then actually output.

If your Android can output 64000Hz sample rate to its DAC, I'll eat my hat, shoes and underwear. :rolleyes:

 

[guymrob]

The Android sample rate differs by device. It is 44.1kHz on the X7 but apparently some multiple of 48kHz on the DP-X1.

Note that CD sourced music (including mp3s and most streamed content) should be 44.1kHz. Hi-res music usually starts at 96kHz. There's little reason the output should be at 48kHz unless you're watching a video or you're resampling.

Again, not that I think resampling, properly done, is a problem.

Re-sample from 44.1kHz to 48kHz is not bit to bit perfect and there's no way to make a decimated number to a whole number, so there will be errors during the conversion. Whether this have a impact on sound quality I'm not sure but as far as this is concerned, it should easily avoid by bypass SRC in android option. In Windows environment, this can be bypassed by using ASIO and WASPI drivers.