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ONKYO DP-X1 | Dual Sabre Dacs | Balanced | Sabre BTL Amp | MQA | DSD 256 | Android 5 |

Discussion in 'Portable Source Gear' started by t.r.a.n.c.e., Sep 11, 2015.
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  1. clarkydaz
    is that the firmware your unit shipped with? i think thats the FW the guys were saying didnt like the sound of?
     
  2. Antihippy
    I really don't see how they are losing money, Other than the audio components they are specced around a mid-range phone, and the audio components aren't that expensive. It's more like the other manufacturers have been charging waaaaay too much.
     
  3. Orky261
    @clarkydaz Don't worry about the firmware, it's just the guy having a placebo moment.
     
  4. Whitigir

    Very true, any mid to higher tier smartphone from China with top tier DAC chip is like sub $500. Check out Vivo X6 plus, sporting the newest ESS pro line DAC.

    This player could only cost Onkyo $100-150 to produce, and give them another $100 into software development, still sub $300, and that is still exaggerated lol.

    On the caliber of Onkyo as a company, they have all the resources and muscle to release another device in the short future and still doesn't hurt a thing...well maybe the audiophile pocket lol
     
  5. Zenifyx

    There's are 3 FWs so far.
    The stock one that it is shipped with, the one dated 21 Dec (in the post you quoted) and another one dated in Jan (which is on the Onkyo website, but somehow does not update for me yet).
     
  6. Sonic Defender Contributor
    You are forgetting other costs like R&D, distribution costs and don't forget the retail price will have around 15-25% mark-up for the reseller. As well, cell phones are meant to sell in large numbers, much larger than you can expect for a luxury audio player so scale of economy is not in their favour. That said, maybe they were able to get a more favourable scale of economy going if they were able to get most of the components from existing suppliers for their other lines, if so then yes the margins would go up.
     
    Keep in mind that for mass-producers of electronics margins are traditionally low as it is a volume based sales model that they compete in. A&K and smaller luxury makers have had a different business environment which is now shifting on them, disruption as they call it TheOneInYellow also likes to call it disruption which is the new term being used in business to describe threats to established organizations and technology that fundamentally change the marketplace. It seems reasonable to suggest that Onkyo and FiiO are trying hard to disrupt the boutique DAP market. But yes, to your point when earlier I suggested they may be close to losing money, that was a tad silly. They won't be making much per unit, but they certainly won't be losing money either.
     
    Edit: Had to edit my margins there as I know sometimes in electronics they dip down to only 15% for the reseller on such items.
     
    davidmolliere likes this.
  7. Whitigir
    ^ very true above. Doesn't seem netting profit is Onkyo goal here lol...seems to me that they are aiming directly toward getting onto the top of the food-chain (portable devices and audio). Both Onkyo and Sony are very serious about this intention. They just approach it differently, if you look at how much the Zx2 has to offer, sound quality, UI, usability, materials, developments and price, Zx2 is in similar manner.

    I have seen comparison from Zx2 to AK240 way back then, and Zx2 came out the winner at half the cost. Then that was the time people didn't pay for TRRS balanced cable or disable the sound adjustment app....they don't even have the newer 3rd party app like right now. At this moment I am listening to Zx2 with power amp alpha, the newest version and it is breathes taking beautiful. I remember ZX2 beating Mojo with the uses of TRRS balanced cables and Onkyo Hf app. Yet power amp alpha has brought Zx2 up into another level.
     
  8. georgelai57
    It always amuses me when people try to work out what is the cost of a product and whether it's worth it or the manufacturer is laughing all the way to the bank. It's very simple really. Say a product is selling at $X and you think it's cost (define it however you like to include whatever you like) is $Y.

    Now ask yourself, based on your guesstimate of how many you think you'd sell; would you give up your current job, and borrow money, and negotiate with suppliers, dealers, advertisers, etc, and pay salaries to your employees, etc etc (you get the idea) and plunge straight into the venture.

    Willing seller, willing buyer.
     
  9. Antihippy
    Of course there are things like market demand and R&D to factor in, and I still think they'll probably recoup what they're putting in, mostly because the market demand is there, because of the price.
     
  10. Crazypaladin
    A follow up from my earlier post regarding hisses or cracking sound when using Spotify or TIDAL. Tried a hard reset with FW 1.26 and install nothing but Spotify and TIDAL after start-up and tried streaming again with spotify and TIDAL. Still experiences hisses and cracking. Now in case someone comes in to deny these due to so and so, let me set it out straight what had been tested and not the root cause: 
     
    1. My IEM and headphone plays well with the default Onkyo player as well as other players such as AK240 and QP1-R. It could be my IEM is very sensitive but I have no such problems with AK240 or QP1-R at low, normal or high gain. I tried low gain in DXP-1 and still hisses and cracking when playing with Spotify and TIDAL. 
    2. Spotify and TIDAL streaming tested without micro-SD cards insert. Also tried their normal and HIFI streaming versions (I am paid subscriber to both platform at the moment) and still hisses and cracking sounds. 
    3. Balanced/AGC - tried on and off and in any combination and still hisses and cracking. 
    4. Spotify/TIDAL - tried offline listening and still cracking and hisses. 
    5. Spotify/TIDAL - no issues with ZX-2 (I have this player as well). 
    6. Digital filter - tried sharp, slow, normal and still same hisses and cracking. 
    7. Tried wide, normal, narrow settings and still same issues. 
    8. Listening songs on default Onkyo player - no issues at all. 
     
    I read earlier that someone (not just one) having the same problems as I have. That makes more than 2 users having issues on this and I believed it is not a user setting issue but rather 3rd party apps such as Spotify and TIDAL (at least these are the two I have tested excessively) cannot make use of the DAC/AMP directly. This is something which I believed Onkyo might need to work on the future firmwares.
     
    Peridot and Zenifyx like this.
  11. muso
    I'm no expert but it seems to me if a couple of people are having issues with Tidal but most aren't then it must be an issue with the specific units rather than a general issue.

    On other news while I'm awaiting my dpx1:

    1. I bought myself a set of Akg k7xx's from massdrop and
    2 there are now some mqa (a few) albums on sale on the onkyo site (for when they update the firmware for mqa)
     
  12. Crazypaladin

    On the contrary though... cos it works well with the default player. Unless the issue with the units are the "hardware" that transfer the audio signal to the DAC/AMP...
     
  13. nanaholic
     
    Your explanation is wrong actually because there is no two stages of DAC conversion (sorry but I'm an signal processing EE grad, you can't beat me at my own game here :wink: )
    A DAC converts a digital signal to an analogue signal simple as that, there is no intermediate waveform between digital and analog.  DSP doesn't do any conversion but instead does manipulation of waveform in digital form such as applying frequency filters.  Sony's DSEE chip is said to be the DSP in marketing material, so there must be another DAC chip which sits after the DSEE that takes the DSEE manipulated digital signal and then spits out the analog audio signal, unless due to "marketing speak" the DSEE chip is already the entire package of DSP+DAC. 
     
    Zenifyx and dulty like this.
  14. Whitigir
    Yes, and that DSEE HX chip is in total control of Sony, which they allows all 3rd party apps to easily access it. Itself DSEE HX + CPU only does 1st stage of the digital to analog, and this is what makes the ZX2 unique....then the class D with Pulses width modulation taking care of the rest and made it into a total quality analog musical final products. To say Zx2 has a DAC is the whole circuitry itself. Some people call it "direct digital"

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class-D_amplifier
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-width_modulation

    Basically value of 1 then 0 is going through a raw transformations with implementations of coding and software from the CPU going straight into the transitory and gate mechanism to interpret into square waves. This square wave then being converted to PWM by class D circuitry and make it into analog waves. Without one or another, it would not work....so it is fair to say Sony ZX2 has no DAC. If you say they have a DAC, then what is it ? S-master ? That is Sony unique patented Class D circuitry....again, direct digital. See here ?

    image.jpg

    Some people call it direct digital is because digital is being read directly into square waves and then manipulated and amplified into analog.
     
    Zenifyx likes this.
  15. PoRidge

    i don't think this is the correct attitude. we have NEVER heard of one single report of the boot up time increased abnormally and yet, onkyo made an firmware update for it.
     
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