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ONKYO DP-X1 | Dual Sabre Dacs | Balanced | Sabre BTL Amp | MQA | DSD 256 | Android 5 |

Discussion in 'Portable Source Gear' started by t.r.a.n.c.e., Sep 11, 2015.
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  1. Whitigir
    Sometime hiss, distortions can just come from an IEMS or headphone...it is not always the sources faults :-/
     
  2. masterpfa
    An Android, iOs and Blackberry thing
    Once screen off unless you interact with any device either via Tap to wake or pressing the home button etc. the screen will not wake
    Android, iPhone, Blackberry are all the same with this
     
    Edit I see this has been answered..
     
    It is, but for those who have the money they will still buy the AK's and Astell&Kern know this and I don't think they are too worried
     
     
    Hi do you have a link for these apps, searched for id3 tagger and cover art downloader for Android, there was quite a selection, any suggested or prefered app for these
     
  3. Zenifyx
     
    This issue has been reported at least 3 weeks back and has yet to be resolved, and was also one of the first things I checked upon receiving my unit.
    The distortion is apparent on certain tracks - just because one does not hear it, it does not mean it is absent.
    In fact, the effect is reproducible!
    As I have mentioned at least twice before, there is a test track available that headfonia has graciously provided us with - I have linked to it here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/780642/onkyo-dp-x1-dual-sabre-dacs-balanced-sabre-btl-amp-mqa-dsd-256-android-5/3225#post_12247961
    The distortion on this track is apparent not just through my IEMs, but even my speakers!
     
    If you are in disbelief, do try it out yourself (compare between stock app and any third-party app!)
    After all, hearing is believing, if my words alone are insufficiently convincing.
    Again, I do strongly suggest you try it out yourself before offering your vehement critique.
     
  4. PrinceOfEgypt

    would loves these!!!
     
  5. Whitigir
    Are you sure the track is not distorted itself ? I am very curious...some track were mixed, composed to have let distortions run in, and in some lower tier gears you may not hear it much because it is forgivable and not as detailed...however on good revealing gears it will show.
     
  6. TheOneInYellow

    Woah woah woah!

    There was nothing vehement in my post!

    I too have read every page of this thread but I still stand that those previous posts do not show enough information on what settings, equipment, hardware and specific apps were used!

    My above post was strictly so that I myself can retrace your footsteps, see if I can reproduce the issue, or troubleshoot for you!

    I do have a more upfront way of speaking (it's a British thing) but my intonation was not acidic; I honestly posted as much as I could so a proper, peer-to-peer testing and troubleshooting can occur.

    This forum is about helping one another after all.
     
    masterpfa likes this.
  7. TheOneInYellow

    Forgot to ask which music was played also, though Zenifyx has linked a nice track to test. Will do a bit later, but I want to try and replicate the conditions thats causing the issue as best as I can.

    I have also not read if these issues has been reported to Onkyo directly or not either...if not then that's another step that may be needed too.
     
  8. Zenifyx
     
    If the track itself were distorted, the distortion would appear in the stock player as well.
    However, the stock player app does not display such distortions, whereas it is very much apparent on a third party player.
     
  9. PrinceOfEgypt
    Hang on so are we sure that the onkyo does not support native DSD? All the brochure material states that it does!?
     
  10. ReizeiMako

    Which one?
     
  11. Whitigir
    It only say that it will play DSD format...nowhere does it say native dsd
     
  12. Zenifyx
     
    Vehement - showing strong feeling; forceful, passionate, or intense.
    Your words showed a firm belief that the fault was in the user settings, and not the player itself. - hence my use of the word.
     
    The previous posts have already provided a set of conditions for reproducing the distortion.
    Specific settings, equipment, and hardware were not necessary to reproduce the effect, thus not stated.
    The specific apps were stated in previous posts, with some searching - UAPP, Neutron, JetAudio, GoneMad (4 apps should be a sufficient to determine that it isn't a specific app fault, and most, if not all players use the standard Android API for music playback anw so an exhaustive list would be unecessarily tedious)
     
    Not sure if Onkyo is aware of the issue, but I think someone stated awhile back that the Japanese community was aware of the issue - hopefully they gave feedback to Onkyo.
     
  13. TheOneInYellow
    Native DSD is not possible on the DP-X1 when using it as is (no OTG).
    However DSD is possible when using in OTG mode but must be setup up correctly in the Onkyo DP-X1 music app correctly.

    It's like Chord's DAC's; though native DSD DAC's sound awesome on paper, they may not perform as well as software based interpolation.

    Good example of the later is both the Nagra HD DAC and Classic DAC, designed by the engineers behind DSD. Rather than solely rely on a DSD DAC to do all the DSD conversion, they use sophisticated hardware and software to go far above what a native DSD can do.

    Remember that a native DSD DAC chip is a SOC, and if not implemented well then just relying on the DAC to do the job may not always yield best results.
    Take a look at all the world's best DAC's for why they pour so much time into hardware and software implementation rather than using a native DSD DAC chip to fo it's thang :p

    Here's a link by Chord's Robb Watts on this:
    http://www.head-fi.org/t/702787/chord-hugo/2475#post_10494245

    Of course there are many schools of thought and discipline on this matter, but I shall say that Michael Jackson's Thriller in DSD sounds amazing on the Onkyo DP-X1.

    Another example in favour of a native DSD DAC is iFi Audio Retro Stereo 50, which sounded really good with DSD. However as you cannot use the iFi Audio Retro Stereo 50 as DAC only I cannot say what was the true effect of DSD conversion only.
     
  14. Orky261
     
    I have tried El-8 (150-160) and Oppo PM1 PM2 and PM3 (all around 145-155), an Ultrasone (I forgot which ones) some AKGs, tons of IEMs (higher end fitear, JH, and UM stuff) (I don't even dare to go above 120) with single ended and found no problem.
     
    TheOneInYellow likes this.
  15. TheOneInYellow

    Ok, to put it in another way, you read my post as an attack on the user unable to correctly setup their DP-X1, and that the user is in the wrong.

    If that was the case, I would not have posted my initial experience of my use of the DP-X1, and information on what possible causes could be.

    Just to be clear; I did not attack, nor I did not say or think that you was wrong in having issues.

    I myself and other's needed to know what is going on so that a resolution can be found.
    Furthermore, I just spent a huge amount on my DP-X1 so I certainty need to know of the issues and find a resolution, even if I (previously) have no issues (not using my DP-X1; was busy this morning).

    You said that it is not necessary to state settings but i disagree, I believe they are necessary for troubleshooting purposes.

    Now, I would go to do some testing, but your last post included a line that needs elaboration:


    If you really are referring to those apps, then there is no need for troubleshooting or testing.
    Neither will Onkyo, Android, Google, Sony, Samsung, HTC, Pioneer, etc, fix the issue, as there is nothing to fix.

    Disclosure: I shall use capital letters in my next paragraph as a form of highlighting and reinforcing, but not out of spite, hate, anger, frustration, or any kind of venting.

    The specific apps you are referring to are apps that are deliberately designed to NOT use the DAC, but the CPU, in the first instance of digital audio conversion and manipulation.
    These apps were designed for Android device's with poor DAC's, so use such device's powerful CPU's to do software digital audio manipulation.
    They will never, ever work with any Android device's DAC unless the original developers create new code to detect high-end DAC's, or make a sister app.

    I have explained this before but here is a link to my previous post, please read here.

    I genuinely want to help, but I must repeat this: apps such as UAPP, Neutron, JetAudio, GoneMad and others of similar ilk are not coded to use the DAC in an Android device; they are coded to bypass it and use the Android CPU first.
    If you want to use such apps with the Onkyo DP-X1 or any other high-end Android DAP, you should then understand that you wish not to use the DAC in that DAP correctly.
    Please contact the app developers for more information.


    Moving away from that, if users are having issues with apps that route audio to the Android OS (API) to be used by a DAC (read as the vast majority of apps which have audio), then that is very concerning. I have not had this issue with apps that I use but will do further testing and monitoring, especially with Tidal.

    I sincerely hope Zenifyx that you do not take offence to this post. It is not an attack at you or anyone else.
    More so, it is more that not many users are aware that certain apps are designed to bypass a DAC and use the CPU; great on Android devices with subpar DAC's with great SQ, but unnecessary on high end Android DAP's.


    Edited:
    Corrected grammatical errors borne from my smartphone's autocorrect...

    Edit 2:
    Peridot has posted that UAPP can be used to either bypass a DAC or use it via settings. Thanks dude! <3
     
    masterpfa likes this.
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