[HOWIE13]

What would you recommend ? Both little dots are $140 . I have Phillips fidelio x2s. I listen to hip hop and alternative. What would recommend for me?

Unfortunately I mainly listen to Classical and Jazz!
I do have the X2. It works well with both amps, though on high gain with the Vali2, with some tubes I hear that hum.
I am uncomfortable giving you a firm recommendation because we don't share the same musical tastes. 
You could try and audition. I think Schiit offer a 14 day return policy.
Maybe someone else could chip in here to help.

 

[Skarecrow77]

Day 5 and about 35 hours of listening now on the Vali 2 / Philips (EI) PCC88 combo.
 
Short version: This is the best my music has ever sounded, by far. Not even close.

Long version: I have a nagging suspicion at the back of my mind that this isn't quite kosher... because it makes even bad recordings sound awesome. The soundstage! The separation! The sheer musicality! I don't know, I feel like it's working some sort of black distortion magic on my flacs..
 
Know what? I don't care. If this is wrong, I don't want to be right.
 
How can this thing only cost $170?!
 
I know my HP50 cans, I know what they "normally" sound like. I know my Modi 2, I know what it sounds like. I know my music, some of it I've been listening to for 3 decades now... and this is just constant "am I dreaming? am I high? am I in heaven?" wonderment... except every time I put my headphones on, it's all STILL THERE.
 
Maybe it's just some really stupid blind luck synergy between the modi 2, vali 2, philips PCC88, and the NAD HP50s. It isn't quite this good when I listen using my PB M4U1s or my wife's Beyer DT880s. It isn't nearly this good with the stock tube. It isn't nearly this good with my old solid state amp. I got to thinking that I may be the only person on earth with this -particular- combo of dac, amp, tube, and cans... and that's kinda sad. I really hope somebody else out there is only missing one or two of these pieces and can replicate this setup to see if they hear what I hear after reading this.

Anyway, in hour 8 of today's listening session and my toes are tapping and head is bobbing like I was a teenager again.

 

[Designer79]

Yeah, there is something special about those Philips PCC88's. They are totally lush in tonality, super mellow, but not overly colouring the sound. Sounds like a contradiction, but it's not, and it's really hard to describe. There's a fierce battle going on here right now between Tesla and Philips for personal no.1 tube in the Vali 2. I do believe I lose minor detailing and a bit of soundstage with the Philips, while instrument seperation is great. The Teslas are a bit more sparkly, and super reveiling down to fine instrumental timbre, with wider sound stage, theoretically a perfect match with the Beyer's. But there is something utterly addictive to the sound of the Philips. If the "higher grade" E88CC's or E188CC's keep that Philips lushness while offering even better detailing and soundstage, now that would be 100% musical bliss ...

 

[a44100Hz]

Are these Ei tubes new or NOS? Could someone PM me a link to vendors so I can check them out? Thanks.

 

[a44100Hz]

  Yeah, there is something special about those Philips PCC88's. They are totally lush in tonality, super mellow, but not overly colouring the sound. Sounds like a contradiction, but it's not, and it's really hard to describe. There's a fierce battle going on here right now between Tesla and Philips for personal no.1 tube in the Vali 2. I do believe I lose minor detailing and a bit of soundstage with the Philips, while instrument seperation is great. The Teslas are a bit more sparkly, and super reveiling down to fine instrumental timbre, with wider sound stage, theoretically a perfect match with the Beyer's. But there is something utterly addictive to the sound of the Philips. If the "higher grade" E88CC's or E188CC's keep that Philips lushness while offering even better detailing and soundstage, now that would be 100% musical bliss ...

Which Tesla do you have? I'm using a new JJ 6922 Gold Pin that may be my favorite current production tube [that I've tried] with the Vali 2. When I want something to sound "tight" I reach for that JJ tube. For more mellow I like the Bugle Boys.

 

[GrouchoMarx1933]

  Maybe it's just some really stupid blind luck synergy between the modi 2, vali 2, philips PCC88, and the NAD HP50s. It isn't quite this good when I listen using my PB M4U1s or my wife's Beyer DT880s. It isn't nearly this good with the stock tube. It isn't nearly this good with my old solid state amp.

 
You hit the nail on the head right there. Synergy is the name of the game. It's about finding the right pieces and putting them all together. That's why, when auditioning new gear, it's important to use as much of your existing gear as you can, so you can know if the synergy is right.
 
Really glad to hear you're enjoying your music so much. That's what good gear should do, regardless of price: Let us enjoy the music.

 

[Skarecrow77]

  Are these Ei tubes new or NOS? Could someone PM me a link to vendors so I can check them out? Thanks.

 
I got mine from upscale audio. price is a bit high ($45 plus shipping for the "platinum" grade, the only grade I'd consider for the vali 2 due to needing tightly matched triodes) compared to the rest of the web, but I'll pay a bit more for knowing exactly what I'm getting and generally not having to deal with ebay.
 
There are, of course a few up on the bay, and there are a few other shops on the web that seem to be sold out of them. 

I believe that for a little bit more, you can pick up the "miniwatt" version made in Heerlen, Netherlands, which I assume sounds at least as good, but can't confirm as I don't have one.

 

[rgmffn]

  Yeah, there is something special about those Philips PCC88's. They are totally lush in tonality, super mellow, but not overly colouring the sound. Sounds like a contradiction, but it's not, and it's really hard to describe. There's a fierce battle going on here right now between Tesla and Philips for personal no.1 tube in the Vali 2. I do believe I lose minor detailing and a bit of soundstage with the Philips, while instrument seperation is great. The Teslas are a bit more sparkly, and super reveiling down to fine instrumental timbre, with wider sound stage, theoretically a perfect match with the Beyer's. But there is something utterly addictive to the sound of the Philips. If the "higher grade" E88CC's or E188CC's keep that Philips lushness while offering even better detailing and soundstage, now that would be 100% musical bliss ...

 
I just acquired one of these from Upscale Audio.  This might fit the bill for the.. ""higher grade" E88CC's or E188CC's keep that Philips lushness while offering even better detailing and soundstage, now that would be 100% musical bliss ..."   It has all those things.  I've never heard detail like this before. I swear I heard a violin bow string fray. Haha. Instruments all have air about them. Vocals have never had this much presence, clarity and size. Nice soundstage. ..and did I mention detail! (I'm using HE400i's for these recent comparisons)
 
I haven't written anything about it yet in the tube rolling thread.  It is said to be of the Philips SQ design. But made in India in the 60's, with all the same parts and tooling.  Exact same as those manufactured in the Heerlen plant, and said to sound the same, but at around half the price. Kevin at Upscale has a video on it, but do you think I can find it?  No!
 
Anyway, this tube is like Scarecrow77 says, ..This is the best my music has ever sounded, by far.
 
And it's really only a little bit more than the Philips PCC88 from Upscale.
 
I was wondering if anyone else has tried it.
 

 
And props to Schiit for the Vali 2.  It's incredible what this little thing can reproduce with just a simple tube replacement.

 

[JK-47]

I have had bad tubes and non tightly matched pairs as well as single tube/dual triodes that weren't the grade they claimed from reputable sellers. Even if they are tightly matched, one triode may have noise in it or be microphonic. Unless you have your own tube tester, you are at the mercy of the "reputable sellers". The world of tube sellers is murky at best, and those are the good ones, the bad are straight out scammers/con artist's.

 

[Skarecrow77]

   
I just acquired one of these from Upscale Audio.  This might fit the bill for the.. ""higher grade" E88CC's or E188CC's keep that Philips lushness while offering even better detailing and soundstage, now that would be 100% musical bliss ..."   It has all those things.  I've never heard detail like this before. I swear I heard a violin bow string fray. Haha. Instruments all have air about them. Vocals have never had this much presence, clarity and size. Nice soundstage. ..and did I mention detail! (I'm using HE400i's for these recent comparisons)
 
I haven't written anything about it yet in the tube rolling thread.  It is said to be of the Philips SQ design. But made in India in the 60's, with all the same parts and tooling.  Exact same as those manufactured in the Heerlen plant, and said to sound the same, but at around half the price. Kevin at Upscale has a video on it, but do you think I can find it?  No!
 

 
Very interesting. I had actually been eyeing the Pope PCC88 / 7DJ8 as a possibility in the future, but the BEL E88CC is nearly the same price, and that's some pretty high praise.

 

[rgmffn]

 
 

   
Very interesting. I had actually been eyeing the Pope PCC88 / 7DJ8 as a possibility in the future, but the BEL E88CC is nearly the same price, and that's some pretty high praise.

 
Yes, the BEL E88CC is my end game, for a while anyways.  It sounds that good to me.  I'm sure there's something better out there, but I'd have to throw money all around just to try to top it.  It's not worth it to me right now.
 
I also grabbed one of these for the heck of it.  A Matsu****a / National PCC88 / 7DJ8. Soundstage is really good. Spacious. But in comparison to the BEL E88CC, was thin sounding and a leaned toward the brighter side. Vocals were subdued somewhat in comparison also. 
 

 
 
 
 
 

 

[Designer79]

 
Which Tesla do you have? I'm using a new JJ 6922 Gold Pin that may be my favorite current production tube [that I've tried] with the Vali 2. When I want something to sound "tight" I reach for that JJ tube. For more mellow I like the Bugle Boys.

 
I am using a 1972 yellow label Tesla E88CC goldpin with factory code "32". I also have a 1975 white label Tesla E88CC goldpin, same factory code. They do sound the same ... JJ took over Tesla's tooling and machinery in the 80's and went on producing tubes to this day.
Your experience mirrors mine, the Bugle Boys are also from the big "Philips family" with it's mellow characteristics. The Tesla's are very precise and tighten up bass and drums a lot.

 

[The Lamonster]

Couple questions:
 
-Should I be using lo gain or hi gain with Philips Fidelio X2s?
 
-Should I bother upgrading my original Vali if I don't plan on using the preamp outputs or swapping out the stock tube?  Is there a significant upgrade to sound quality (keeping in mind I'll be using X2s with this)?

 

[HOWIE13]

  Couple questions:
 
-Should I be using lo gain or hi gain with Philips Fidelio X2s?
 
-Should I bother upgrading my original Vali if I don't plan on using the preamp outputs or swapping out the stock tube?  Is there a significant upgrade to sound quality (keeping in mind I'll be using X2s with this)?

Answer to your first question is very simple-whichever setting sounds better to you.
Sorry can't answer the second as I don't have the original Vali.

 

[RickB]

  Couple questions:
 
-Should I be using lo gain or hi gain with Philips Fidelio X2s?
 
-Should I bother upgrading my original Vali if I don't plan on using the preamp outputs or swapping out the stock tube?  Is there a significant upgrade to sound quality (keeping in mind I'll be using X2s with this)?

 
To my ears, the Vali 2 is a worthwhile upgrade. However, it is less "tubey" and warm sounding with the stock tube than the Vali 1.  You can tube roll with the Vali 2 to get the sound you want, though.