[ThinWalls]

Interesting (and odd) that the stock firmware has a 49,000 track limit (this is correct, right?  Have read this many times - though I really don't get why the limit is this rather arbitrary number)
 
By my calculations that would coincide with filling a 500Gb drive if you used 320kb/s as your usual bit-rate, and a 1Tb if you used lossless.  At any lower bit-rate the stock firmware would run into the track count limit long before filling the disk.
 
Which I guess means if you opt for a 1Tb drive you really have to use Rockbox, unless you only use lossless (and of course just to make it more awkward, itunes can't handle FLACs)
 
As I mostly use 192-256kb/s and still have quite a few at 128kps I guess even a 500gb drive might be better rockboxed.

 

[sweex]

Interesting (and odd) that the stock firmware has a 49,000 track limit (this is correct, right?  Have read this many times - though I really don't get why the limit is this rather arbitrary number)

By my calculations that would coincide with filling a 500Gb drive if you used 320kb/s as your usual bit-rate, and a 1Tb if you used lossless.  At any lower bit-rate the stock firmware would run into the track count limit long before filling the disk.

Which I guess means if you opt for a 1Tb drive you really have to use Rockbox, unless you only use lossless (and of course just to make it more awkward, itunes can't handle FLACs)

As I mostly use 192-256kb/s and still have quite a few at 128kps I guess even a 500gb drive might be better rockboxed.

This limit is probably a misquoted bit of information. The 49000 track limit is given by Apple in the sense that you can put up to 49000 128kbps tracks on a (stock) drive. Apparently this information somehow got translated in: you can't put more than 49000 tracks on a iPod, which makes sense until you upgrade your storage.

I know it's annoying that iTunes doesn't handle flack but it isn't that difficult to convert FLAC to ALAC.

 

[ThinWalls]

This limit is probably a misquoted bit of information. The 49000 track limit is given by Apple in the sense that you can put up to 49000 128kbps tracks on a (stock) drive. Apparently this information somehow got translated in: you can't put more than 49000 tracks on a iPod, which makes sense until you upgrade your storage.

I know it's annoying that iTunes doesn't handle flack but it isn't that difficult to convert FLAC to ALAC.

I'm not sure you are correct - its been stated quite a few times that an ipod will crash if you exceed 49,000 tracks.  Including by Tarkan on his website (and he certainly knows his stuff regarding the ipod - there was a bit of a debate about it, including the 32767 limit on playlist length, which some mistakenly think is a total track number limit). 
 
Also, I think the number that will 'fit' on a stock drive was generally given by Apple as 40,000, not 49,000.
 
On the other hand, I wouldn't swear you are wrong either!  Have yet to see a definitive test of this either way*.  But logically, there would be some sort of limit based on how much memory the ipod can use for the directory, no?
 
Can't find the full discussion on Tarkan's site now, but here's a quote from him on another thread:
 

 
During development work I was using a 3Tb Hard drive on the 7g, but the Apple OS has limitations of around 50000 tracks – so to get up to 170K tracks you would need to switch to EmCore / Rockbox which uses files/folders structure to store music, so technically should not have that limitation.

 
* have 35,000 on mine at the moment, so will be a while before I find out.

 

[sweex]

 
I'm not sure you are correct - its been stated quite a few times that an ipod will crash if you exceed 49,000 tracks.  Including by Tarkan on his website (and he certainly knows his stuff regarding the ipod - there was a bit of a debate about it, including the 32767 limit on playlist length, which some mistakenly think is a total track number limit). 
 
Also, I think the number that will 'fit' on a stock drive was generally given by Apple as 40,000, not 49,000.
 
On the other hand, I wouldn't swear you are wrong either!  Have yet to see a definitive test of this either way*.  But logically, there would be some sort of limit based on how much memory the ipod can use for the directory, no?
 
Can't find the full discussion on Tarkan's site now, but here's a quote from him on another thread:
 
 
* have 35,000 on mine at the moment, so will be a while before I find out.

I thought someone confirmed here that he had more than those number of songs on his iPod. I'm not going to search it now. I'm "only" at 8000 songs or so, so to be honest I'm not really concerned by the problem yet.

 

[dr408517]

I thought someone confirmed here that he had more than those number of songs on his iPod. I'm not going to search it now. I'm "only" at 8000 songs or so, so to be honest I'm not really concerned by the problem yet.

The stock iPod firmware will support at least 56K entries, but will shuffle no more than about 30K. The limit on the stock firmware actually varies with media type (I have no idea why, but I conformed this in tests published here hundreds of pages ago) and Logic board RAM size.

The iTunes software updates the .db file during the load. Loads it to RAM at start-up.

If you build an iPod with an mSata and continue to use the iTunes stock firmware, the battery life is also reduced. Of course, I don't database in RB, so it's not truly a fair comparison.

 

[dr408517]

I'm not sure you are correct - its been stated quite a few times that an ipod will crash if you exceed 49,000 tracks.  Including by Tarkan on his website (and he certainly knows his stuff regarding the ipod - there was a bit of a debate about it, including the 32767 limit on playlist length, which some mistakenly think is a total track number limit). 

Also, I think the number that will 'fit' on a stock drive was generally given by Apple as 40,000, not 49,000.

On the other hand, I wouldn't swear you are wrong either!  Have yet to see a definitive test of this either way*.  But logically, there would be some sort of limit based on how much memory the ipod can use for the directory, no?

Can't find the full discussion on Tarkan's site now, but here's a quote from him on another thread:

 

* have 35,000 on mine at the moment, so will be a while before I find out.

Just a small correction - it doesn't crash above the file limit, it just doesn't show any files on your iPod. Probably has to do with the fact that the .db file is too large to be loaded into the RAM or read by the firmware. And yes, apple reports file limits based on harddrive size, not on firmware limits.

 

[sweex]

Just a small correction - it doesn't crash above the file limit, it just doesn't show any files on your iPod. Probably has to do with the fact that the .db file is too large to be loaded into the RAM or read by the firmware. And yes, apple reports file limits based on harddrive size, not on firmware limits.

Which is more or less logic since these iPods were not meant to be opened or size of the drive changed.

 

[Stereodude]

The stock iPod firmware will support at least 56K entries, but will shuffle no more than about 30K. The limit on the stock firmware actually varies with media type (I have no idea why, but I conformed this in tests published here hundreds of pages ago) and Logic board RAM size.

 
Doesn't this all depend on the generation of your iPod?

 

[nahk]

  Interesting (and odd) that the stock firmware has a 49,000 track limit (this is correct, right?  Have read this many times - though I really don't get why the limit is this rather arbitrary number)
 
By my calculations that would coincide with filling a 500Gb drive if you used 320kb/s as your usual bit-rate, and a 1Tb if you used lossless.  At any lower bit-rate the stock firmware would run into the track count limit long before filling the disk.
 
Which I guess means if you opt for a 1Tb drive you really have to use Rockbox, unless you only use lossless (and of course just to make it more awkward, itunes can't handle FLACs)
 
As I mostly use 192-256kb/s and still have quite a few at 128kps I guess even a 500gb drive might be better rockboxed.

 
Just in case you didn't see it, here is latest Tarkan's comment on number of tracks and stock firmware: http://www.tarkan.info/20080506/blog/iflash-compact-flash-compatibility-help-needed/comment-page-7#comment-2041928 : 
 

The 50000 tracks limit is not an exact number, it can be much lower like you have experienced and much higher.

It all depends on your iTunes Database size, if you have lots of meta data in your tracks and embedded album art, etc, etc this will increase the size of the iTunes DB file.

Sadly no way around it, it is a limitation of the Apple OS firmware.

Out of interest can you tell me the size of your iTunes DB file, can be found on the iPod under iPod_control.

 
Basically boils down to what dr408517 said - it all depends on the database size.

 

[Stereodude]

Basically boils down to what dr408517 said - it all depends on the database size.

 
But what is the maximum database size?

 

[ThinWalls]

I wonder if I'll be able to get away with sticking to iTunes when I upgrade to 500Gb?
 
Have rockbox on another stock ipod - its pretty good, don't mind it (appreciate the customisability, and its nice to be able to see the bitrate of tracks, even feel as if the sound quality is better, but might be entirely imagining that) but I also like the convenience and smart playlist feature of iTunes (despite its numerous bugs).  Would rather stick with iTunes if possible.

 

[flacworrrrab]

Hi all, I did a msata ssd mod 480gb crucial on a 7g ipod classic with the green adapter,following the guide from beyondwind, got it all working but I have a problem I cannot figure out.
Write speed to the ipod via usb on win7 is very slow,seems like it has a initial burst 9-12mb/s then decreases to a stable aprox 200-300kbps,its hardly usable this way.
Read speed from the ipod back to pc is good a stable 9mbps.
I have read about connecting the msata directly to the pc and copying the music that way, but everytime I need to put music on it? take it apart and go through all that?
I already tried formatting the drive in win fat32 with different cluster size, same result.
 
Any ideas or input on this issue is appreciated.

 

[DMinor]

With apple stock firmwares, how do you guys manage 500gb or 1TB music? Just scroll the wheel to find your music (playlist, album etc)?
 
It seems to me much easier to manage music of this size using folders and sub folders with RB.

 

[dr408517]

Doesn't this all depend on the generation of your iPod?

That's an interesting question. I know that the 5th, 5.5 and 7th gen 64k RAM can all hold 56k songs on a 240g Toshiba harddrive using the native iTunes firmware. I haven't tested the 32k RAM boards for limits, but I wouldn't be surprised if they had trouble before that limit. But, one never really knows until you test it. I've never tested the earlier gen iPods either, though I have been tempted just for the retro chic effect.

 

[dr408517]

With apple stock firmwares, how do you guys manage 500gb or 1TB music? Just scroll the wheel to find your music (playlist, album etc)?

It seems to me much easier to manage music of this size using folders and sub folders with RB.

Dminor - besides being wholly impractical, I don't think iTunes software can support too many more entries. Using 128.mp3 files, I have 55430 songs on a 256gb SSD. When I was testing the mSatas with iTunes firmware, I consistently found that the songs would load, but none would appear in the menus when the number was above 59000. All have artwork, comments, etc. For me, 59000 files wasn't above the 250gb size, so i abandoned the iTunes firmware as a viable option for the 480gb and 1T iPods.

:rolleyes: