[buz]

(this is not an attempt to troll, rather a recount of todays impression) After several months in Singapore now, I finally did make it to the temple of headphones. My mission was simple: figure out what the JH craze is about. Armed with a trusty old Clip+ filled with 256kbps VBR tracks I asked to try both JH5 and JH16 (they do have all models in universal configuration).
 
Out of the Clip, the JH5 universal sounded good, but not 400USD better than my 150USD FX500, not by a long shot. So I relented and tried it out of one of the middle end GoVibe Amps, some improvement, but still not worth it in my view.
 
So along comes the JH16 (universal). Out of the Clip (which is what will drive whatever I might end up buying at least half the time) it sounds better but still not amazing so hooked it up to the biggest GoVibe AMP. A lot better but in the end, I still cannot see paying the asking price for it.
 
I also got to hear Jab's very own Silicone top-ebd ACS custom (interesting concept for sure, I could get a decent fit) which fared surprisingly well straight out of the Clip but is priced nearly on par with JH16, too.
 
What I think disappointed me the most was the soundstage compared to even my D2000. It still felt tiny
 
If I did not travel as much as I do for work (that may change at some point who knows), I would probably give up now and just order an LCD-2 Now there is obviously one variable I cannot really check for and like to ask about: how much difference is there between the JH universals and true customs?

 

[goodvibes]

Armed with a trusty old Clip+ filled with 256kbps VBR tracks. There's also the issue of fit with universal style customs and the fact that not everyone will appreciate the difference. There's absolutely nothing wrong with being a cheap date when you're taking yourself out on the town.

. There' 

 

[Kunlun]

Hi Buz, I had a similar experience with the JH16 demo, disappointed listening with a amp and 320kps tracks (compared directly to another set of customs).
You can see my comparison here.
 
People may exaggerate the differences between demo and universal, but fit is important and there is likely some difference (although I would be wary of anyone claiming a night-and-day difference). However, a counterpoint to that is that demo may actually sound a little better in some ways because any sibilance which has been reported by some professional reviewers is muted by the foam tips.

 

[buz]

In my case they both had mid sized silicone bi flanges on there, but they definitely sealed properly and fit seemed ok. Jamming in the  ACS custom was kinda weird but even that seemed to work out ok... Not quite sure what to do now.
 
I don't really have an issue with dropping the money on a JH16 per se, but seeing how little I felt I get out of it I really doubt I am going to do it. Having said that, I still think I am going to buy another IEM as I need better insulation (which is really key when traveling, especially on planes) than what my FX500 provides (the open back is nice for sound quality, less so for noise insulation). Either I go and get a 1964Q at less than half price of what the Jh16 costs (and ericp raves that it is better than the FX700 which is thought to be quite an upgrade over my beloved FX500 and potentially one of the best IEMs for bass lovers, full stop)  or maybe another good universal with sealed back. If I ever get a job with less travel, that LCD-2 is as good as bought

 

[goodvibes]

Kunlun, I much preferred the 13 to the 16 but I know it's personal. Interseting comment about the twfk treble. I've got similar feelings about it though the effect can be worked around. I found the Q-jays have it in spades.
 
 When I tried the universal versions of the 5, 13 and 16 they were with some replacable rather stiff foamies that I manipulated and jammed in as deep as I could so that nothing was in front of the ports. I think  with customs, standard type tips takes away an important aspect of their design. Of course, we don't have much choice for a listen. I personally hate the tip rolling aspect of universals but also appreciate they benefits of voicing with them. Always surprised at how much they can change a sig. 
 
Buz, try the 13 and see if you don't feel better about JH. Maybe even try swapping tips. That said, $1k plus does seem a bit of overkill for a clip/ vbr.

 

[Kunlun]

The 1964Q does sound like a much better value and people have liked it. Plus, the customer service is better. ACS has a good reputation.
 
Have you thought of getting a small amp, like the ibasso t3? It's really tiny and not so expensive. Worth it if you're looking into customs.

 

[TekeRugburn]

Thats debatable saying that the customer service is better..... unless you have personal experience from both companies one shouldn't make claims like that....just imo. 

 

[goodvibes]

Jokers excellent review of the 1964 ears is in his comparison chart. That or the Q, if you like extra bass, is probably a more appropriate expenditure for your needs. My concern is that if the JHs didn't work for you, there's nothing to indicate that another custom will either. You may just want ti be happy with something you already like.

 

[Kunlun]

Quote:

Thats debatable saying that the customer service is better..... unless you have personal experience from both companies one shouldn't make claims like that....just imo. 

I have experience with 1964 Ears and Jerry Harvey was caught lying to a head-fi'er (by yours truly) recently--that's not a "claim" by the way, it's a straight-up fact that anyone can see and confirm for themselves (all the proof is posted publically in the locked JH3A thread, go and look for yourself, if and only if you can't find it after actually looking, then you can pm me). So, yes, I can definitely say that 1964 Ears has better customer service than JHA.
 

 

[goodvibes]

 
Quote:

Thats debatable saying that the customer service is better..... unless you have personal experience from both companies one shouldn't make claims like that....just imo. 

This will take the thread off track but for some reason (perhaps valid), Kunlun holds a grudge agsinst JH and it was long before the 3A thread.
 

 

[Kunlun]

 
Quote:

 


This will take the thread off track but for some reason (perhaps valid), Kunlun holds a grudge agsinst JH and it was long before the 3A thread.
 

Well, I wouldn't say a grudge, I reject the notion that one must be either a fanboy or a hater. I did give the JH16 demo as fair a chance as I could--in fact, I even had high expectations! Maybe I shouldn't have had high expectations, as they can lead to disappointment.
 
But, I have had concerns about JHA's customer service and the issue with the 3A certainly didn't dispell them. However, I do appreciate that many have had good experiences with them and enjoy their products, even as a few others have had bad results. As rawrster once said, Jerry basically was the first to start marketing custom iems to audiophiles and not just music professionals. As an adult, I can give him credit for that while still calling out poor customer service when I see it.
 
To avoid taking the thread off-track, people can pm me if they want to continue. My original point was that customer service is an important part of choosing a custom, moreso than with a universal.

 

[average_joe]

Hey buz, I am not surprised!  I had a horrid experience with the JH16 demo unit and it sounded worse than my IE8, which I had at the time and much much worse than the UE11 demo I also heard around that time.  I would not read too much into the universal demo experience, although I do know they are there for a reason.
 
Here are my thoughts about your situation:
- Universal demos don't necessarily portray all the qualities of the custom and I have read about quite a few people saying a JH demo unit was far inferior to the real thing.
- I have heard many universals and several customs; all of the customs I have are better by a good amount to my ears.
- The soundstage portrayed by my smallest sounding custom (the EM3 Pro) is larger than the largest sounding universal I have heard (SM3), yet when compared with headphones is usually a little smaller.  I don't have the D2000 for comparison, but lower cost cans, SA5000 in my case, was about on par with the EM3 Pro while the EP-10 Plus is close to the LCD-2 (and I think the Infinity X3 isn't all that far off, but I am still evaluating).  So, I would say your experience isn't all that meaningful in determining how the real thing sounds.
- Sound signature preferences should play a part in any custom decision.  The ones I have heard are all different yet all have similar levels of performance, except the EP-10 Plus which lags because it has too much mid-bass, but make a decision based on what you like to hear, not what is popular here.  I have a JH16 reshell on the way.  While it might be fantastic technically, I am not sure it will be my favorite from a sound signature perspective.  While I haven't heard the 16 officially yet (I did shove the customs in my ears, which were much smaller than my canals), I would say the JH16 isn't as warm as many other options out there including the EM3 Pro, which is thick and musical vs. purely accurate, the Infinity X3, which is fun and somewhat similar to a SE530 (although I am still evaluating), or the Fabs which are very flat across the spectrum.  I have this thread here where all the manufacturers (that I know of) are listed and I will be putting my summary reviews for quick comparison of customs.
- All of my customs outperform the FX500 & FX700 to my ears, but there are differences between the presentation of BAs and dynamics.  The higher you go in price the smaller the differences are, at least between the universal dynamics and BAs.  Simply, BAs usually do reverb differently than dynamics.  One person can hear them dynamics as sounding natural while another can hear the same thing as bloated and slow (even the FX700 ).  It depends on your experience/perspective/preferences.

 

[TekeRugburn]

delete post
 
 

 

[raelamb]

256k files????
 
I know I'm going to get flamed for this but how can someone considering the purchase of $ 1150 ear pieces listen to music that is that "lossy"??
 
Just get a pair of ATH-M50's and call it a day dude.....
 
"This don't make no kinda sense." 

 

[average_joe]

@ raelamn, good point.  The Clip isn't the best source, and 256K isn't lossless.  What I lose out on from a better player and and when using lossy vs. lossless is the space, instrument placement, and subtle nuances in the music, which results in a smaller, more congested and less defined soundstage.  And that TWag cable sure makes a difference, at least with my EM3 Pro!
 
@ buz: I take it you are using a much better source path for your D2000, correct?  Does that source path improve the sound of your other IEMs?  You are really crippling the JH's with the source, the files, and the universal part IMO.