[drgajet]

The K10 is much easier to insert and remove due to its size, which is a bonus.

Hey, did you know you have a watch in your ear?

 

[Watagump]

Hey, did you know you have a watch in your ear?

 
I might have to send them back, its not keeping accurate time, its only correct twice a day.

 

[drgajet]

I think you have to listen 24/7 for them to be an accurate time piece.

 

[rmullins08]

The discussion has already been beaten to death.  John and Brannan have said their piece, let's just move on.

 

[moshen]

  Yes, let's keep it civil. At least he's trying to make his point without just calling something garbage (the obvious sock puppet from a few days ago).

I think the guy in the video was very fair. Do we really think an extreme high margin product like that shouldn't have come with a premium case and cables for just slightly lower in margins for the company?
 
As he states: "Savant is an exercise in cost optimization and is proving to be very profitable for Noble. I ain't hatin', it is what it is. "
 
He mentioned the sound was good with two drivers. Customers choose where to put their dollars, and I don't understand why folks in this thread aren't happy to see this stuff. Isn't it a great thing others help provide transparency in the products when companies don't do it themselves?

 

[Watagump]

Oh man, my feelings are hurt, I got called a loser in the youtube comments. Will someone be my friend?

 

[drgajet]

Well, I suppose. Someone must.

 

[Watagump]

Well, I suppose. Someone must.

 
 
So are you stepping up, or telling someone else to? 

 

[FullCircle]

First, please don't assume everything you see/hear on YouTube is fact.
 
 
 
1) Storm Box
 
a)  Yes, the storm box isn't a Pelican case, but as of October (and this has been announced on head fi a few days back) We are transistioning to the use of the Pelican brand storm box. We are excited about this transition.   We didn't use the Pelican brand at first as it is more expensive, and we didn't have the money to be able to purchase the brand at the time we began.
 
 
That being said, the original storm box has served its purpose well as an extremely strong box used to protect the IEMs
 
 
B) the final price for our original storm box is NOT 3$ (and yes it is much higher than that)
 
 
2) Injection mold.
 
A) We didn't use a Chinese Injection Mold Company.  We used a company based in California (were Brannan is) 
 
B) The prices quoted on the VDO were WAYYYYY off for the injection mold work/tooling costs
 
 
3) VDO states that the Savant is a CHINESE IEM. 
 
A) It isn't a Chinese IEM, it isn't made in China, isn't assembled in China, never spends a moment in China.   In fact not a single component comes from China.
 
4) Noble "wrist band"   
 
  A) it isn't a band designed to be worn on the wrist. The bands are supposed to be used to "stack" a DAP + an External portable Amp
 
While I'm not sure about the popularity of using a "stacked" system, we still offer it as a complementary component to the packaging.
 
5) No signature on the warranty cards
 
 A) Yes it is true there is not signature, but keep in mind, these IEMs are sold in MASS quantities to dealers.  We have no way of knowing what their customer names are.  We build them and box them, much like any other mass product, they are then placed on a shelf, waiting to be sold either to a dealer/distributor or direct to the public.
 
B) CIEMs are different, as they are made per individual, we can then fill out the information on the warranty card in that situation.
 
6) Chinese Cable
 
A) the Cable is not from China. To say I never considered China as a source would be wrong.   I tried working with USA, India, China, Taiwan
 
B) It took me 3 years to finalize the cable, and I ended up working with the same company that works with some of the top brands in this industry.   The internal wires are from Japan, the Kevlar as well.  
 
There is nothing cheap about our cable, and as shown before on head fi, the cable has a pull strength of around 150 lbs.
 
C) the final price for the cable far exceeds 2$ and admittedly, when I first got into this industry I thought that it should cost that much.  But Silver Plated Copper tinsel wire isn't cheap
 
7) Plastics 1 (P1)
 
A) While P1 is a great company, the particular cable shown on the VDO is inferior to the cable we use.  The braid in the video is a tripple braid & has a pull strenght of around 90lbs (still a lot and probably more than necessary) But we opted for a Quad braid.
 
The Quad braid offers more pull strength, and doesn't require a "splitter" to be used.  Splitters can be a weak point in a build design, as it is another soldering point that could potentially break.
 
B) The use of a Quad braid is not a "mystery" to this industry as a lot of companies use this design today, and P1 now offers a Quad Braid design, but certainly not at 10$
 
8) The driver without a Spout
 
That particular dirver IS NOT a hearing aid driver. It is a driver specifically develloped for audio bass production.  To further attest for that, it is ported to enhance the bass response.   Why there is no spout on the driver, would be a internal reason with Knowles.    But I suspect the fact that it doesn't have a spout is why this particular bass driver has not been used/seen in the IEM industry as not having a spout is a pain to work around/build with'
 
Honestly, I originally didn't want to use this particular driver due to not having a spout, but after building the Savant and hearing it.....   I concluded that what ever the extra trouble it is to use that particualr bass driver....   it is worth it for the sound.
 
9)  You Tube poster says, "For whats inside, he was stunned by its performance"
 
A) I was impressed as well, hence the name "Savant" 
 
10) Estron Wire
 
 A) I have used Estron, and it is a respectable company.  
 
 B) that being said, the solder wire I use (Not FROM CHINA) has a nylon core that melts away during soldering.  This core allows the solder wire to be stonger, but yet more flexable at the same time.   Estron is more brittle than the wire I use, so I prefer the wire we use  and the decission has nothing to do with price.
 
 
11) Cost of screws.
 
 a)   The cost of screws in not negligible.
 
First I have to purchase the screws then have them custom plated. I have to spend about 4K USD$ every time I place and order for gold plated screws, as again, manufacturers will not produce small quantities.
 
At the point of purchase, the screws have a small amount of "LocTite" on the screws, and that has to be removed by us, before they can be plated.    The process of aquireing gold plated scews isn't a simple process.
 
12) 10 minute labor time. 
 
   A) more like an hour, one individual building 7 sets a day.
 
13) Chinese Technicians
 
We don't use Chinese Technicians, as the IEMs are not built in China.   As I stated before, they are not assembled in China, and no component is from China.
 
 
In summary, either I know nothing about cost savings measures, and I need to hire the YouTube poster
 
or the YouTube poster isn't accurate in all his claims.

 

[fiascogarcia]

  Oh man, my feelings are hurt, I got called a loser in the youtube comments. Will someone be my friend?

 
And he looks like such a nice guy!!

 

[Watagump]

You just have to love the part in the video about the wrist bands not fitting, its explains quite a bit. Of course he can always claim sarcasm. 

 

[mscott58]

I heard recently that the rumored "Chinese-produced" wine they sell in California is only made from (wait for it - this will shock you) grapes! I can buy a bunch of grapes at my grocery store for a buck or two and these robber-barons have the gall to charge me tens if not hundreds of dollars for wine?!? Clearly these people love nothing more than exploiting the working class. 
 
I also just learned that paintings that sell for thousands of dollars, if not more, are made only of canvas and colored pigment?!? I can go to my local arts and crafts store and buy the same things and have change left over for a twenty dollar bill. The nerve of those artistic profit-seekers to screw over the hard-working men and women who have not choice then to buy their art. . 
 
Okay, sarcasm put aside now. If it was easy to make IEM's like John's then everyone would be doing it. If you want to take the same parts and make your own, then go for it. If you don't want to buy them then don't. Half-truths that support a convenient narrative are the bane of the media these days and the same appears to be true in certain posts at Head-Fi. 
 
That's all I have to say about that..

 

[ScottFree]

   
Every product has R&D costs so it's nothing special and in this case the labor costs are really low because it's only two drivers without custom shells. It doesn't justify such an outrageous difference in cost of components versus retail price which is the issue here. The Savant almost certainly has the highest profit margin of the whole lineup!
 
Hiding the driver number because people will quite rightly question why a 2 driver UIEM is more than expensive than a 3/4 driver UIEM is shady practice.
 
 
You are making Noble product owners look like sheep who will pay and justify anything. That is some amusing irony. It's pretty childish to think the the products bought bear any relation to the characteristics of the person. Doesn't someone here drive a BMW M3?

 
I bought my Noble 3 because the description was "With a ‘V’ shaped frequency response, the Noble 3 in-ear monitor is characterized by a controlled, impactful, low end and far-reaching highs" which sounded great to me coming from a IE8 and Shure SE315 with veiled sound for the Sennheiser and mid-centric sound with the Shure. How many drivers there was did not come into it.

 

[AUserName501]

Spoiler: Quote: FullCircle

Originally Posted by FullCircle /img/forum/go_quote.gif

First, please don't assume everything you see/hear on YouTube is fact.
 
 
 
1) Storm Box
 
a)  Yes, the storm box isn't a Pelican case, but as of October (and this has been announced on head fi a few days back) We are transistioning to the use of the Pelican brand storm box. We are excited about this transition.   We didn't use the Pelican brand at first as it is more expensive, and we didn't have the money to be able to purchase the brand at the time we began.
 
 
That being said, the original storm box has served its purpose well as an extremely strong box used to protect the IEMs
 
 
B) the final price for our original storm box is NOT 3$ (and yes it is much higher than that)
 
 
2) Injection mold.
 
A) We didn't use a Chinese Injection Mold Company.  We used a company based in California (were Brannan is) 
 
B) The prices quoted on the VDO were WAYYYYY off for the injection mold work/tooling costs
 
 
3) VDO states that the Savant is a CHINESE IEM. 
 
A) It isn't a Chinese IEM, it isn't made in China, isn't assembled in China, never spends a moment in China.   In fact not a single component comes from China.
 
4) Noble "wrist band"   
 
  A) it isn't a band designed to be worn on the wrist. The bands are supposed to be used to "stack" a DAP + an External portable Amp
 
While I'm not sure about the popularity of using a "stacked" system, we still offer it as a complementary component to the packaging.
 
5) No signature on the warranty cards
 
 A) Yes it is true there is not signature, but keep in mind, these IEMs are sold in MASS quantities to dealers.  We have no way of knowing what their customer names are.  We build them and box them, much like any other mass product, they are then placed on a shelf, waiting to be sold either to a dealer/distributor or direct to the public.
 
B) CIEMs are different, as they are made per individual, we can then fill out the information on the warranty card in that situation.
 
6) Chinese Cable
 
A) the Cable is not from China. To say I never considered China as a source would be wrong.   I tried working with USA, India, China, Taiwan
 
B) It took me 3 years to finalize the cable, and I ended up working with the same company that works with some of the top brands in this industry.   The internal wires are from Japan, the Kevlar as well.  
 
There is nothing cheap about our cable, and as shown before on head fi, the cable has a pull strength of around 150 lbs.
 
C) the final price for the cable far exceeds 2$ and admittedly, when I first got into this industry I thought that it should cost that much.  But Silver Plated Copper tinsel wire isn't cheap
 
7) Plastics 1 (P1)
 
A) While P1 is a great company, the particular cable shown on the VDO is inferior to the cable we use.  The braid in the video is a tripple braid & has a pull strenght of around 90lbs (still a lot and probably more than necessary) But we opted for a Quad braid.
 
The Quad braid offers more pull strength, and doesn't require a "splitter" to be used.  Splitters can be a weak point in a build design, as it is another soldering point that could potentially break.
 
B) The use of a Quad braid is not a "mystery" to this industry as a lot of companies use this design today, and P1 now offers a Quad Braid design, but certainly not at 10$
 
8) The driver without a Spout
 
That particular dirver IS NOT a hearing aid driver. It is a driver specifically develloped for audio bass production.  To further attest for that, it is ported to enhance the bass response.   Why there is no spout on the driver, would be a internal reason with Knowles.    But I suspect the fact that it doesn't have a spout is why this particular bass driver has not been used/seen in the IEM industry as not having a spout is a pain to work around/build with'
 
Honestly, I originally didn't want to use this particular driver due to not having a spout, but after building the Savant and hearing it.....   I concluded that what ever the extra trouble it is to use that particualr bass driver....   it is worth it for the sound.
 
9)  You Tube poster says, "For whats inside, he was stunned by its performance"
 
A) I was impressed as well, hence the name "Savant" 
 
10) Estron Wire
 
 A) I have used Estron, and it is a respectable company.  
 
 B) that being said, the solder wire I use (Not FROM CHINA) has a nylon core that melts away during soldering.  This core allows the solder wire to be stonger, but yet more flexable at the same time.   Estron is more brittle than the wire I use, so I prefer the wire we use  and the decission has nothing to do with price.
 
 
11) Cost of screws.
 
 a)   The cost of screws in not negligible.
 
First I have to purchase the screws then have them custom plated. I have to spend about 4K USD$ every time I place and order for gold plated screws, as again, manufacturers will not produce small quantities.
 
At the point of purchase, the screws have a small amount of "LocTite" on the screws, and that has to be removed by us, before they can be plated.    The process of aquireing gold plated scews isn't a simple process.
 
12) 10 minute labor time. 
 
   A) more like an hour, one individual building 7 sets a day.
 
13) Chinese Technicians
 
We don't use Chinese Technicians, as the IEMs are not built in China.   As I stated before, they are not assembled in China, and no component is from China.
 
 
In summary, either I know nothing about cost savings measures, and I need to hire the YouTube poster
 
or the YouTube poster isn't accurate in all his claims.

 

 We build them and box them, much like any other mass product, they are then placed on a shelf, waiting to be sold either to a dealer/distributor or direct to the public.

 
Put the SN on the card then. The card is useless and proves nothing. At least then it would prove something. You also don't offer warranty if it's been sold to someone else which is pretty unfair if it is still in the warranty period.
 

 We didn't use a Chinese Injection Mold Company.

 
It's still not a good injection mold on a very expensive product. Many others have complained that the Wizard logo looks scratched on and they are right.
 

 The cost of screws in not negligible

 
Why are you buying gold plated screws if it is so expensive then. What possible benefit does it serve.
 

 more like an hour, one individual building 7 sets a day.

 
That's still low considering the cost. Perhaps you'd like to talk about the build time for other cheaper Noble products.
 
You also dodged the most important part which is the COST OF THE DRIVERS and THERE ARE ONLY TWO OF THEM on a $600 product which you deliberately hid because you knew that you'd get backlash and rightly so.

 

[ScottFree]

   
 
 
Put the SN on the card then. The card is useless and proves nothing. At least then it would prove something.
 
 
It's still not a good injection mold on a very expensive product. Many others have complained that the Wizard logo looks scratched on and they are right.
 
 
Why are you buying gold plated screws if it is so expensive then. What possible benefit does it serve.
 
 
That's still low considering the cost. Perhaps you'd like to talk about the build time for other cheaper Noble products.
 
You also dodged the most important part which is the COST OF THE DRIVERS and THERE ARE ONLY TWO OF THEM on a $600 product.

 
Cost of the drivers I would imagine would be variable I assume depending on how many they need. Aurisonics ASG-2.5 has two BA drivers in the IEM + one dynamic driver for bass for $699.