[dfkt]

I think you should try getting used to the Phonak default silicone tips before trying other tips. They are tuned to provide the best sound out of the PFE, Phonak put almost as much research in the tips as in the phones themselves.

 

[sly_in_the_sky]

I know and it's exacty what I have done but I really don't like foamies tips (sq) and the silicone ones don't go deep enough in my ears and tend to stick out...I't's sad that Audéo don't also give biflanges or triflanges tips just for those who have deep ear canals like me...

 

[mortonjl]

600 bones????
 

 

[sly_in_the_sky]

The proof that more drivers don't mean best sound quality (3 BA EM3 VS JH 16 for example).... to say "600 USD for a 2 BA IEM'" is a shortcut... all I can say is that I am happy with them and that for me, they are mor natural than all the Iems that I owned and also the W4, (that I also own at this moment), with better treble energy and timbre, better precision, with better "sub" bass, better depth and dynamics...
 
 
With the PFE 232, a free pair of PFE 022 is given... sell it 100 USD and the final price of the PFE 232 will be closer to the new W4R's price...for me that I live in Switzerland (also for those living in Europe), no shipping fees, no customs taxes...

 

[chi2]

I've got the PFE232 for a week now. Must say that I'm a clearly underwhelmed. I quite liked the PFE1xx with black filters and silicone sleeves. However, to my ears the PFE232 are usable only with gray filters. The black and even more so the green filters make them sound veiled and harsh at the same time. Bass is overpowering and not very well defined, the mids are set back way too much and get smeared. Both filters are useless IMO.
 
With the gray filters clarity, dynamics and extension on both ends are really good. Still I don't dig the new Phonaks because their treble is just too hot for my gusto. It's even stronger than the one of the PFE1xx with gray filters and almost as prominent als UE TF10P and UE700. The quality of the treble is pretty good but there's a tendency towards sibilance due to a spike in mid treble. This makes them sound overly aggressive IMO. Treble energy is quite a bit higher than JH13, W2 and SM3V2. Even the W3 aren't that hot.
 
Another issue is the bulid quality which is only ok (rubbery, springy cable with some microphonics) and the scanty accessories (same 1.95$ textile bag and minimal set of filters as with the PFE1xx, cheap package). This would be fine for a 150$ IEM but at 600$ that's quite irrational.

 

[KevinWolf]

Quote:

The proof that more drivers don't mean best sound quality (3 BA EM3 VS JH 16 for example).... to say "600 USD for a 2 BA IEM'" is a shortcut... all I can say is that I am happy with them and that for me, they are mor natural than all the Iems that I owned and also the W4, (that I also own at this moment), with better treble energy and timbre, better precision, with better "sub" bass, better depth and dynamics...
 
 
With the PFE 232, a free pair of PFE 022 is given... sell it 100 USD and the final price of the PFE 232 will be closer to the new W4R's price...for me that I live in Switzerland (also for those living in Europe), no shipping fees, no customs taxes...

Which has more resolution? W4 or PFE?

 

[sly_in_the_sky]

To my ears, the treble region and the lower bass has more resolution...but in a natural way, very realistic. No sibillance in the treble region but a lot of energy without being unnatural, harsh....beautiful extensions on both frequencies. That give a more open sound and more depth to the presentation. I listen to a lot of Jazz and acustic music and I think the way the PFE sounds is very very close to reality...
 
For a given volume, I listen to some backward subtile sounds (very low volume) in treble and low bass that I never listened before with my W4. And this resolution even at low volume makes the PFE easy to listen to, no need to turn volume up (PHONAK is an hearing aid company first). The W4, at low volume, loose some resolution... to my ears...

 

[james444]

Quote:

Treble energy is quite a bit higher than JH13, W2 and SM3V2. Even the W3 aren't that hot.  
Another issue is the bulid quality which is only ok (rubbery, springy cable with some microphonics) and the scanty accessories (same 1.95$ textile bag and minimal set of filters as with the PFE1xx, cheap package). This would be fine for a 150$ IEM but at 600$ that's quite irrational.

From memory the JH13 demos I've heard had about the same amount of treble energy as the 232 and were slightly more sibilant.
 
I agree regarding build quality, I've seen better cables (though also worse) in that price range, plus the all plastic housing doesn't inspire class leading confidence.
 
As for the bag, it's the same as the PFE1xx's and actually among the most useful ones I've come across. Granted, the e-Q7's and EX1000's leather cases look/feel more classy, but are actually less practical for mobile use.

 

[james444]

Quote:

To my ears, the treble region and the lower bass has more resolution...but in a natural way, very realistic. No sibillance in the treble region but a lot of energy without being unnatural, harsh....beautiful extensions on both frequencies. That give a more open sound and more depth to the presentation. I listen to a lot of Jazz and acustic music and I think the way the PFE sounds is very very close to reality...
 
For a given volume, I listen to some backward subtile sounds (very low volume) in treble and low bass that I never listened before with my W4. And this resolution even at low volume makes the PFE easy to listen to, no need to turn volume up (PHONAK is an hearing aid company first). The W4, at low volume, loose some resolution... to my ears...

That's odd, while I agree on treble resolution, my experience is quite the opposite regarding bass. The 232's slight mid-bass emphasis tends to overshadow the low bass and I can hear more bass detail on the W4, even at low volume. Our conception of low volume may not be the same though.

 

[sly_in_the_sky]

I'll try to give an example. On a track (flac) that I have (don't remember exactly the name of the song and can't check at this moment), on my Studio V, volume seted on 10 (for example), at the begining of the song, a bass is comming from far slowly and become stronger and punchier... at the first beginning of this "effect", I hear the "sub" bass more earlier than the W4...on the W4, the first "sub" bass is non-existent...while in the PFE 232, you can clearly listen to the upper bass and also the lower coming earlier...that's why I have the impression that the "sub" bass is more precise.

 

[james444]

Don't get me wrong, but it may not be the best idea to use a Hisoundaudio DAP for such comparisons. Not sure about their Studio V, but the AMP3 has performed extremely poor in dfkt's RMAA test, especially regarding bass roll-off. I'd choose a player that has proven to be equally suited for all kinds of IEMs (including multi-BAs), or else you inevitably run the risk that your source's shortcomings might bias your impressions.

 

[sly_in_the_sky]

James, I had the Amp3 Pro2, Cowon D2, J3, Clip+, the s:flo 2 and even the Amp3 pro 3 (that isn't official) and all I can say is that the Studio V is a really good player, very neutral, no bass or treble roll of, lot of dynamics, very good SQ, no hiss with the PFE 232, nothing to do with the Amp 3 pro 2.
 
Here in the audiophile french forums, is one of the most loved player of the moment and is even used as reference when reviewing about IEM's (site: tellement nomades, review avout the EM4, for example)
 
But what I wrote is also something that I can say when using the PFE with my Clip +, the Cowon J3 and the Amp3 Pro 3.

 

[james444]

Well, I said don't get me wrong, since I don't know anything about the Studio V. Though btw, the AMP3 was also "most loved" here at some point, just saying...

 
On a more serious note, could you please post the song name of your example? I haven't used a track with slow bass fade-in for my comparison, just my usual bass test tracks from Brasstronaut, Markus Schulz, Manu Katche and a few others, so I'd really like to try and see whether I'll hear it the same way.

 

[sly_in_the_sky]

No problem James, I'll find this song ASAP and will give you the song's name...

 

[KevinWolf]

Hard to decide, get these or the new CK100 Pro. Or both, LOL.