Newb question about the sound signature of Grados
Dec 29, 2010 at 1:04 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 20

silentlight

New Head-Fier
Joined
Nov 8, 2010
Posts
24
Likes
0
Thanks to the useful and dangerous (at least for my wallet) information on this site, I have come to buy several headphones, including the M50 and the DBA-02's.  I also now have a V-Jays Jay for when I want to go light but not IEM.  
 
I have burned in the M50's and they do sound great.  But I can't help but feel that I enjoy the open sound of the V-Jays Jays more.  Not sure if I am saying this right but the sound seems more natural, and less "electronic?"  
 
Having said that, how do the Grado's sound in comparison?  
 
Dec 29, 2010 at 1:09 PM Post #2 of 20
I can't comment on any of the cans mentioned above, by my Grado sr80i does sound very airy and open. There isn't much soundstage wise, but its great for forward style music like rock. I am definitely a Grado fan!
 
Dec 29, 2010 at 1:43 PM Post #3 of 20
Yeah...I have not heard any of your listed cans either but if you like open...it doesn't get any more open than Grados. 
 
Dec 29, 2010 at 5:14 PM Post #5 of 20


Quote:
Thanks for the reply.  How is the bass on the Grado's?  



If ran through a nice quality DAC/amp, the bass is nice and tight, present, and fairly deep without being overpowering. I think the bass is perfect for rock music and jazz. Electronic music and rap don't sound super great through them though. There isn't that overly booming bass that rap and dance music require IMO.
 
Dec 29, 2010 at 5:34 PM Post #6 of 20
This. Sometimes...not often, but once in awhile, I wish there was just a little more bass...usually when I listen to electronica or some Rammstein...but for everything else...the bass seems just right. There are some easy mods you can do to Grados that will increase the bass as well if you find them too lacking and then there is also good old EQing too. But really, Grados are not made to be bass heavy headphones. If you try to make them that way you are taking away what makes Grado, Grado. Not suggesting that is what you are after...just giving some IMO.
 
Quote:
Quote:
Thanks for the reply.  How is the bass on the Grado's?  



If ran through a nice quality DAC/amp, the bass is nice and tight, present, and fairly deep without being overpowering. I think the bass is perfect for rock music and jazz. Electronic music and rap don't sound super great through them though. There isn't that overly booming bass that rap and dance music require IMO.

 
Dec 29, 2010 at 7:01 PM Post #7 of 20
Grados have no back.  They are open-air cans.  They also have no filters between the driver and the ear.  What you hear is essentially coming off the driver.  Grados don't have much in the way of low bass but by the time you get to 100 Hz, they're all fairly prominent, with a nice, easy glide to the flattest mids you'll find between 500 Hz and 1.5 kHz.  Where other headphones roll off early, Grados are prominent through 9 or 10 kHz before rolling off to  -7 dB at 15 kHz.  All headphone manufacturers say their headphones go from 20-20 kHz but it's all bluster.  Most of the sonic range - in most headphones - is between the midbass and high-mids - which is where most of us live.  
 
The open-air design of the Grados help them resolve detail well and manage issues of resonance and distortion.  Grados don't have as much bass as a number of closed cans, but they don't sound canny and they certainly don't sound muddy.  They sparkle with edge and detail.  Having explored other designs, I keep coming back to Grados because they engage the listener very, very well.
 
On the flip side, because Grados are open, and bass has a tendency to leak out the back, they aren't for everyone.  Some find them fatiguing.  If you try to crank up the bass by cranking up the volume, you will just succeed in making your ears bleed.  There are ways to get more bass out of Grados, but the volume control is not one of them.  The cheapest Grados produce more bass by using smaller pads to mute the treble.  The SR60s have surprisingly good bass for their place at the bottom of the Grado food chain ($79) but most people go on to other Grados, to get a more open sound.  The best all-arounder is the SR225 ($200) which has punchy bass and more sparkle but not so much sparkle that your ears bleed.  The SR225 is a fairly mellow Grado, even though it is more open than the SR60.
 
The top Grados are the RS1, GS1000 and the PS1000, which employ expensive air chambers made of mahogany or mahogany and aluminum.  They have the best damping and the best wiring, as well as the cushions/pads that fit well within their emphasis on bringing together the best elements Grado can.  Having owned the HD800, the T1 and the PS1000 simultaneously at one point, I can honestly say that the HD800 had the best soundstage, the T1 was the most fun with metal and the PS1000 was the most like being there.  When people speak of Grados as having "no soundstage," what they're saying is that the mids are prominent enough that the vocals and instrumentations feel very, very close - as if you were onstage or in the first row.  The emphasis is on the mids - not "presence" frequencies high and low.  For that reason, most Grados leave you feeling very close to the action.  For symphonic music, this can leave some folks feeling claustrophobic; on the other hand, nobody goes to a rock concert to sit in nosebleed.  If you want a "polite" distance from the music, check out the Sennheiser HD600/650/800.  I loved the HD800's dimensionality (It actually felt 3D).  Grado doesn't do space.  What you hear will sound like it's coming right off the track, or right off the driver, because it is.  On the other hand, I can hear details on my Grado that I don't get with a room full of loudspeakers.  Because your ears are superglued to the drivers, and because the emphasis is on the mids, you hear amazing details with the Grados.
 
You can get amazing details with a lot of headphones, if you spend enough on amps, dacs, interconnects and lossless files, but Grado makes it easy.  Grados are also great knock-around headphones - at least in their plastic models.  These are headphones you can take anywhere.  I wouldn't use them in a noisy environment (where the outside roar invades the mix) or in an ultra-quiet environment (like next to my sleeping wife) but most other environments - including doctors' offices, shopping malls, parks, beaches and even rooms with the TV blaring - have been fine.  
 
Dec 29, 2010 at 7:11 PM Post #8 of 20
I had a pair of SR225i right after I had my M50. Night and day difference. The M50 is tipped toward the warm side of neutral, with a bit of thickness in the lower midrange and strong, deep bass. The midrange on the M50 seemed very laid back to me, which was part of the reason I didn't like it. The Grado sound is anything but neutral, with a pervasive coloration that overlays everything. Bass-wise, they're light, textured, and tight. They have a little bloom, but not much. The bass was laser focused and very quick--the quickest I've yet heard. I really enjoyed the Grado bass, though it could have used a little more weight at times. The midrange is very forward and inviting, and this is where all the coloration happens. Tuneful and involving. Quite lovely, if the coloration isn't bothersome. The treble was decidedly unrefined and, weirdly enough, I got the exact opposite impression of everybody who has ever heard a Grado in that I didn't think it was particularly sparkly. Not entirely smooth, either, but not unpleasant. Cymbals seemed to fall into a weird void. I recognize this is an unusual impression of the treble, so take it with a grain of salt.
 
Dec 29, 2010 at 7:19 PM Post #9 of 20
I'm going to muddy the waters a little by saying that I wish Grado made a genuinely 'dark' headphone. Not 'less bright', but dark and laidback in the style of some of the higher end Senns. Sacrilege, I know, but it would really make it easy to recommend a Grado/Alessandro headphone for those who are frightened off by all this talk of 'overly bright', 'treble spike' and 'icepick in your brain'. I could be wrong, but those just arent good marketing  :)
 
Dec 29, 2010 at 7:42 PM Post #10 of 20
I think that the "Grado sound" IS what makes them appealing to many and that sound is all the marketing they need. If they started making more laid back headphones they would just be jumping in the pool with all the other kids and that would be worse for them I think then what they are currently doing, which is sticking to their roots.
 
Yeah...Grados can be a bit bright, abrasive at times...but the people that are afraid need to look around and see and understand that if Grados weren't such a great sounding headphone they wouldn't be recommended in nearly every what should I get thread that pops up. There also would not be such a huge fan base. There is a reason for that. 
 
Quote:
I'm going to muddy the waters a little by saying that I wish Grado made a genuinely 'dark' headphone. Not 'less bright', but dark and laidback in the style of some of the higher end Senns. Sacrilege, I know, but it would really make it easy to recommend a Grado/Alessandro headphone for those who are frightened off by all this talk of 'overly bright', 'treble spike' and 'icepick in your brain'. I could be wrong, but those just arent good marketing  :)

 
Dec 29, 2010 at 8:07 PM Post #12 of 20
Thanks all the helpful replies.  Since my use will range from classical, jazz, hip hop, to watching films, which model would be a good starter?  Possibly the SR225?  Has anyone here tried out the V-Jays?  I really like the sound from these.  They are open too, but the bass is strong enough when necessary without muddying the sound.  I'm hoping to get a similar sound from a Grado, with of course more of detail.
 
Dec 29, 2010 at 10:33 PM Post #14 of 20
this is the probably the best description of grado headphones i have ever read. this guy really knows his grados!
 
Quote:
Grados have no back.  They are open-air cans.  They also have no filters between the driver and the ear.  What you hear is essentially coming off the driver.  Grados don't have much in the way of low bass but by the time you get to 100 Hz, they're all fairly prominent, with a nice, easy glide to the flattest mids you'll find between 500 Hz and 1.5 kHz.  Where other headphones roll off early, Grados are prominent through 9 or 10 kHz before rolling off to  -7 dB at 15 kHz.  All headphone manufacturers say their headphones go from 20-20 kHz but it's all bluster.  Most of the sonic range - in most headphones - is between the midbass and high-mids - which is where most of us live.  
 
The open-air design of the Grados help them resolve detail well and manage issues of resonance and distortion.  Grados don't have as much bass as a number of closed cans, but they don't sound canny and they certainly don't sound muddy.  They sparkle with edge and detail.  Having explored other designs, I keep coming back to Grados because they engage the listener very, very well.
 
On the flip side, because Grados are open, and bass has a tendency to leak out the back, they aren't for everyone.  Some find them fatiguing.  If you try to crank up the bass by cranking up the volume, you will just succeed in making your ears bleed.  There are ways to get more bass out of Grados, but the volume control is not one of them.  The cheapest Grados produce more bass by using smaller pads to mute the treble.  The SR60s have surprisingly good bass for their place at the bottom of the Grado food chain ($79) but most people go on to other Grados, to get a more open sound.  The best all-arounder is the SR225 ($200) which has punchy bass and more sparkle but not so much sparkle that your ears bleed.  The SR225 is a fairly mellow Grado, even though it is more open than the SR60.
 
The top Grados are the RS1, GS1000 and the PS1000, which employ expensive air chambers made of mahogany or mahogany and aluminum.  They have the best damping and the best wiring, as well as the cushions/pads that fit well within their emphasis on bringing together the best elements Grado can.  Having owned the HD800, the T1 and the PS1000 simultaneously at one point, I can honestly say that the HD800 had the best soundstage, the T1 was the most fun with metal and the PS1000 was the most like being there.  When people speak of Grados as having "no soundstage," what they're saying is that the mids are prominent enough that the vocals and instrumentations feel very, very close - as if you were onstage or in the first row.  The emphasis is on the mids - not "presence" frequencies high and low.  For that reason, most Grados leave you feeling very close to the action.  For symphonic music, this can leave some folks feeling claustrophobic; on the other hand, nobody goes to a rock concert to sit in nosebleed.  If you want a "polite" distance from the music, check out the Sennheiser HD600/650/800.  I loved the HD800's dimensionality (It actually felt 3D).  Grado doesn't do space.  What you hear will sound like it's coming right off the track, or right off the driver, because it is.  On the other hand, I can hear details on my Grado that I don't get with a room full of loudspeakers.  Because your ears are superglued to the drivers, and because the emphasis is on the mids, you hear amazing details with the Grados.
 
You can get amazing details with a lot of headphones, if you spend enough on amps, dacs, interconnects and lossless files, but Grado makes it easy.  Grados are also great knock-around headphones - at least in their plastic models.  These are headphones you can take anywhere.  I wouldn't use them in a noisy environment (where the outside roar invades the mix) or in an ultra-quiet environment (like next to my sleeping wife) but most other environments - including doctors' offices, shopping malls, parks, beaches and even rooms with the TV blaring - have been fine.  



 
Dec 30, 2010 at 12:26 PM Post #15 of 20


Quote:
Thanks all the helpful replies.  Since my use will range from classical, jazz, hip hop, to watching films, which model would be a good starter?  Possibly the SR225?  Has anyone here tried out the V-Jays?  I really like the sound from these.  They are open too, but the bass is strong enough when necessary without muddying the sound.  I'm hoping to get a similar sound from a Grado, with of course more of detail.



i have the V's and curruntly got the Grado325is on, clearly they are on different levels but like you i really like the V-Jays and d can tell you the 325 is very different.  the V is warm and rich and the 325 is cold, dry and crisp.  the bass is clearly in the background but whats most diff is the treble.  there is shed leads of it and its tiring.
 
i think if your after the same sound as you have with the V's but better grado isnt the way to go, im not saying they arent fun just that i dont think its really what your after
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top