[cliffjnr]

It has been covered extensively (not in this thread) and not really a DAC as far as I understand

thank you.

ftr, I think it sounds really good and i have a capped one

 

[Psymon69]

What do you mean they can not drive it? Is there no sound when plugging them in? Or do you mean that 120/120 is not loud enough?

No transients or sound staging…. Somewhat flat……I’ve not tried IEMs to which I’m assuming it’s best suited as a native driven output….

 

[gh0sty]

So none of the other phones were fixed? Surely someone would have started a class action suit against them.

It's a very "niche" error. The phones quietly restart overnight every day. The ones who noticed got the phone repaired and the rest just live with it. The issue is difficult to notice for those who don't mind typing their password several times a day (among others things). I knew about cases in Europe. Not sure about the US or Canada

 

[Vamp898]

No transients or sound staging…. Somewhat flat……I’ve not tried IEMs to which I’m assuming it’s best suited as a native driven output….

In that case you don't like the Sound of the A300 Series^^ but that is unrelated if it can drive them well.

You need no power to drive your headphones, they are extremely easy to drive. The A300 has more than enough power to drive them perfectly fine. If they don't sound the way you expect them to sound, you just don't like the way the A300 sounds.

The A300 would sound 100% identical, even if it would have 3000mW

 

[Vamp898]

cheers. so im guessing the S-Master™ HX digital amp has an integrated dac of which we dont know anything about?

It doesn't have an DAC. Its an Full Digital Amp, there is no DAC. You only need an DAC for analog amps because analog amps can only amplify an analog signal.

Full Digital Amps amplify the digital signal, so there is no need for an DAC.

To make this a bit more clear, you don't need an DAC to make digital audio audible.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-width_modulation

All you need is an inductor (speakers are inductors). So you can amplify an digital audio signal and send the digital signal to the speaker and the result will be music.

Because every electronical circuit (there is no exception) produces noise, you normally don't directly send the digital signal to the speaker (that would cause them to heat up or worst case, even break. Depending on the amount of power and noise).

So LCs (which are inductors) are used to filter the digital signal to remove the noise from it. They are inductors that feed capacitors and draw from them and so start to resonate at the frequency of the electrical circuit. And they will let through anything except their own resonance frequency (which is electical noise) and so filter the noise. Because they are inductors, the result that comes out of them is an analog signal.

The grey rectangles with the white dot on top in the red marked area are the LCs.

But LCs are not DACs. You could leave them out and send the digital signal straight to the speaker and have music. The analog signal that comes out of the LCs is the digital signal - noise. There is no conversion from digital to analog.

DACs are ICs that read digital data as an input and create a new analog signal based on the data they read which is something completely different.

You only need DACs if you have an analog amp because they need an analog signal.

 

[abitdeef]

thank you.

ftr, I think it sounds really good and i have a capped one

Basically it takes digital data and then amps it with pulse wave modulation carrier frequencies, then it removes those carrier frequencies with a filter and you're left with the amped audio signal. Simplified of course, the filters have to be very precise otherwise you're left with harmonic distortion if the 'carrier' amplification freq isn't properly removed. Those carrier frequencies are very high amplitude (energy/freq) and amplify the signal. All in the digital domain, then are removed and you are left with the correct audio signal, like gold flakes being filtered through a sluice.

It was a problem in early class D amps, but it'saudit e been improved greatly. It's very efficient and generates hardly any heat. Sony is on the umpteenth generation of their own class D amps. All done in house, they are Jedi masters of small class D amps you could say Plus all their excellent dsp know how really helps. Much different than most daps that use delta sigma chips from AKM, ESS, Cirrus etc.

Sony gets to control much more of the audio tech themselves and that makes their daps unique. Only downside is power output is less than typical systems. So the balanced outs have to add lots to boost the tiny class D amps output. Size just doesn't allow that with the A Series small frame. Although I know the s master amp can output at least 50 mw @16 ohms itself. Probably throttled to 35 mw on the A Series to save battery, less on a capped one.

 

[cliffjnr]

It doesn't have an DAC. Its an Full Digital Amp, there is no DAC. You only need an DAC for analog amps because analog amps can only amplify an analog signal.

Full Digital Amps amplify the digital signal, so there is no need for an DAC.

To make this a bit more clear, you don't need an DAC to make digital audio audible.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-width_modulation

All you need is an inductor (speakers are inductors). So you can amplify an digital audio signal and send the digital signal to the speaker and the result will be music.

Because every electronical circuit (there is no exception) produces noise, you normally don't directly send the digital signal to the speaker (that would cause them to heat up or worst case, even break. Depending on the amount of power and noise).

So LCs (which are inductors) are used to filter the digital signal to remove the noise from it. They are inductors that feed capacitors and draw from them and so start to resonate at the frequency of the electrical circuit. And they will let through anything except their own resonance frequency (which is electical noise) and so filter the noise. Because they are inductors, the result that comes out of them is an analog signal.

The grey rectangles with the white dot on top in the red marked area are the LCs.

But LCs are not DACs. You could leave them out and send the digital signal straight to the speaker and have music. The analog signal that comes out of the LCs is the digital signal - noise. There is no conversion from digital to analog.

DACs are ICs that read digital data as an input and create a new analog signal based on the data they read which is something completely different.

You only need DACs if you have an analog amp because they need an analog signal.

thanks for that it's very interesting. do any other portable players work like the sony? seems like most companies go with the dacs

 

[cliffjnr]

tha

Basically it takes digital data and then amps it with pulse wave modulation carrier frequencies, then it removes those carrier frequencies with a filter and you're left with the amped audio signal. Simplified of course, the filters have to be very precise otherwise you're left with harmonic distortion if the 'carrier' amplification freq isn't properly removed. Those carrier frequencies are very high amplitude (energy/freq) and amplify the signal. All in the digital domain, then are removed and you are left with the correct audio signal, like gold flakes being filtered through a sluice.

It was a problem in early class D amps, but it'saudit e been improved greatly. It's very efficient and generates hardly any heat. Sony is on the umpteenth generation of their own class D amps. All done in house, they are Jedi masters of small class D amps you could say Plus all their excellent dsp know how really helps. Much different than most daps that use delta sigma chips from AKM, ESS, Cirrus etc.

Sony gets to control much more of the audio tech themselves and that makes their daps unique. Only downside is power output is less than typical systems. So the balanced outs have to add lots to boost the tiny class D amps output. Size just doesn't allow that with the A Series small frame. Although I know the s master amp can output at least 50 mw @16 ohms itself. Probably throttled to 35 mw on the A Series to save battery, less on a capped one.

thank to both it makes sense. I always assumed you needed a dac

 

[abitdeef]

Sonys the only one that uses digital amps. You have few r2r ladder dacs that are built out of matched resistors. Like hiby Darin architecture, usually a very warm organic sound, analog sounding.

 

[psikey]

Sonys the only one that uses digital amps. You have few r2r ladder dacs that are built out of matched resistors. Like hiby Darin architecture, usually a very warm organic sound, analog sounding.

Are Mojo's all digital and they don't have a DAC (or is it FPGA custom code DAC) ?

 

[abitdeef]

Are Mojo's all digital and they don't have a DAC (or is it FPGA custom code DAC) ?

Yes it's FPGA dac, not digital amplification.

 

[Vamp898]

thanks for that it's very interesting. do any other portable players work like the sony? seems like most companies go with the dacs

Other manufacturers don't make their own chips. They buy what's on the market and there is no Digital amp for DAP on the market.

Sony uses digital amps because they make them themselves

 

[Saf10]

My smartphones when they had 3.5mm out would drive more power than capped Sony DAP's 3.5mm, but an uncapped one has more power. If you mean sound quality then it depends if phone even has a 3.5mm and if not, totally down to USB DAC/AMP your using with the phone.

I had an Xperia 1 III not long ago and it was good for a phone, but A306/7 is better. I also had an LG V30 years ago with a good dedicated QUAD DAC and the Sony sounds better than that too (for me anyway from memory).

I have an iPhone13mini with the apple 3.5mm DAC/AMP and the Sony sounds more musical, warm and expansive than that. I've also used my BTR5 wired out of an S21 & the iPhone and I'd still say A300 edges it too (but not for power).

 

[Saf10]

Yes, I still have a LG V20 phone with QUAD DAC and in my opinion the A306 sounds better. More separation and clarity.
I have the uncapped version ordered from Hong Kong.

 

[Psymon69]

Result ! I’ve been able to prove the A306 USB output to outboard DAC AMP via its USBC port using UAPP !
This is a mighty relief as I am planning to use A306 as the streaming source in my home office
Thanks to those whom offered advice and support
im going to pair it up with the new Earmen ST Amp DAC and my Meze 109 Pros. I’ve also splurged on the Meze copper cable upgrade balanced 4.4 to squeeze the Earmen amp to its max