[MaxiTK]

  Couldn't the description "less up close and personal" be another way of saying the ff- upgrade sounds more spacious than the ostensibly more intimate original version?

 
I'd say that FF definitely brings more microdetail out: stuff which was previously hard to hear was more prominent with FF but again stuff which was previously out in front "up close and personal" was not there as strongly as before. As far as "space" goes the FF was more spacious because of the "equalizing" effect of FF: less apparent --> apparent and more apparent --> apparent. This is what my subjective observations were. On the other hand I would not dismiss the issue of the cans themselves and how they bring out the feeling the space generally - when speaking about the effects of FF one should always mention the cans used and and whether crossfeed was used.
 
As said before I think that the FF-issue is ultimately a "what you want from the sound" thing more than it being considered universally desireable.

 

[MaxiTK]

   
FF was more spacious because of the "equalizing" effect of FF: less apparent --> apparent and more apparent --> apparent. This is what my subjective observations were.

 
I wanted to come back to this matter: afterwards I began thinking that there was a lot "more apparent --> apparent" goign on than "less apparent --> apparent". It's the microdetail which comes more apparent, not everything. Again, factor in the effect the cans too.

 

[Argo Duck]

^^ Kind of "the forest becomes less apparent because of all the (extra) trees"?

IOW, larger-scale structures and features become less prominent even as fine detail becomes more apparent, or visible for the first time...would that be a fair formulation?

 

[MaxiTK]

^^ Kind of "the forest becomes less apparent because of all the (extra) trees"?

IOW, larger-scale structures and features become less prominent even as fine detail becomes more apparent, or visible for the first time...would that be a fair formulation?

 
Totally agree here. As the discussion shows the effect of FF isn't something which can be easily described easily, lots of metaphors. Too bad there isn't a simple way to preview the effect since it requires a physical update.

 

[rasmushorn]

   
Totally agree here. As the discussion shows the effect of FF isn't something which can be easily described easily, lots of metaphors. Too bad there isn't a simple way to preview the effect since it requires a physical update.

I think Jan Meier once had a prototype with a flipswitch to change back and forth? He should bring one of those to meets etc. That would make it easier for people to compare the two versions. 
 
I had a chance to sit at his booth at a meet in Germany and compare my normal Classic+Daccord to a ff-moderated Classic+Daccord. But even there it took a while(and a pair of HD800) for me to discover the differences.
 
I have to say I am a very impressed by those of you who can remember what your old Classic+Daccord sounded like before you shipped them to get the upgrade and then be able to explain the difference after the upgrade so accurately! I had a hard time doing so even after the time it took to change the cables! 

 

[Argo Duck]

^ What you don't appreciate rasmushorn is some of us have phenomenal powers of recall and cognition

But seriously, I have the same problem as you. Yet, I'm reasonably confident there is better than zero - though nowhere near 100%! - validity to impressions shared among us. Whilst it is easy to fool the human brain (near perceptual and cognitive boundaries; given the right conditions), there is also a lot it gets right. My (tentative) 'confidence' in this is my only reason for sharing impressions and asking questions of others' impressions. Otherwise, I wouldn't bother as I'm not into groups for the sake of socialization

A major problem reducing the degree of validity achievable for audiophiles connecting over the internet is that we rarely get to be in the same room with the same gear so that we can even begin to calibrate our perceptions and arrive at common 'meanings' (generalizations of perceptual data) of terms. Or when we do get together, it is often at audio shows which are noisy, chaotic, and present novel sense and social experiences that strongly interfere with our usual listening cognition. Given this I think we too often - on head-fi - agree and disagree over little more than empty air!

 

[wolfz]

Bumped

 

[wolfz]

Just want to chime in here but not to discuss the ff version. Quite interesting discussion......
Once there was a time ( long ago) I had an entry level Sennh. with the yellow pads (414? ) and
a cheap amp % source and was immensely enjoying music. Today I have the habit to listen
to sound more often than normal . "Coloured ,clear , crisp, decay, definition, depth,  detailed, euphonic,
grainy, harsh.....

..and there are quite a few more words to describe sound. In a way, and as a hobby it
can be fun. But it too often distracts me from the real thing, enjoying & feeling the music. Some people
probably know what I mean. Hope to find the way back to enjoy music without distraction ( but not with a cheap Senn & cheap amp).    Meier has to stay

.
 
 
I started with the Corda v1 a long time ago and think that it is a magnificent piece of audio gear.
It is actually so good that a conversion to ff is not on my priority list. Maybe one day

.
For me ( I'm not an audioholic

) the Corda Classic with a Beyer T1 is already "audio heaven".
A wonderful combination.  Detail , soundstage , instrument separation etc.... are all top notch in
my opinion. What I especially like is that the amp hardly ads anything to the sound like a lot of
other amps do. And not to forget the crossfeed filter that is something very special.
I compared the Corda with some other amps and it always came out as a winner. Even the Burson Soloist
which is a highly regarded amp was outperformed. Of course everybody hears different and this is just my
opinion. I don't know how the Corda would compare to a $4000 Prima Luna or Cavalli tube amp or Luxman
solid state amp but you pay a lot of money for only small improvements in sound I guess. It wouldn't surprise me
at all to hear that the CC competes with amps costing several times as much.  Tube amps are often
recommended for the T1. I don't 100% agree with this. The Corda Classic goes so good with the T1 you might
 think the amp was designed for it.     I used the CC with the following headphones and  liked
each combo apart from the Beyer DT880 that sounded a bit thin (still good...).  A warmer sounding amp added a bit more "body".
Senns HD800 , HD600/650 , Alessandro MS-PRO , Grado sr325i ( a little aggressive at times....) , Ultrasone Sig Pro and Edition 12 ,  Kept the T1 and HD600. The HD600 and the CC are also a very nice combo. I think the HD 600 is a marvelous
headphone and what it delivers for the low price is very impressive.

 

[Fastnbulbous]

I got the iFi Pro iCAN a couple months ago because I thought it would be fun to try out the tube option while still having solid state. It is fun, and does sound different than the Classic, but isn't necessarily better. I wish I still had my Audeze LCD-2.2, because I felt the Classic really had nice synergy with it. I'll probably miss it, but I'm moving forward and selling my Classic+Daccord combo so I can eventually afford the iFi Pro DSD when it's finally released. 

 

[Richter Di]

Great explanation Jan. Thank you.

 

[mocenigo]

  Hmm.. I am still not quite convinced, as I am a firm "believer" of sound science.
 
 
There is, to my knowledge, still no evidence that 24 bit recordings sound any better than Redbook. If this whole ff circuit is based on that notion, then I do not think it is for me.

Well, it does not matter here what initially prompted Jan to design that circuit – if it sounds better (which I cannot yet prove with my ears). But the idea seems to be to first bump the high frequencies, then amplify the signal, then reduce the highs a bit in the feedback loop. The result then would be also to reduce any harmonic distorsion caused by the amplification circuit from the lower frequencies. This will then be an improvement in neutrality, provided that phase changes are kept under control. If this is implemented well, then the result can be very interesting. I hope to be able to test this.
 
 Roberto

 

[Richter Di]

Well, it does not matter here what initially prompted Jan to design that circuit – if it sounds better (which I cannot yet prove with my ears). But the idea seems to be to first bump the high frequencies, then amplify the signal, then reduce the highs a bit in the feedback loop. The result then would be also to reduce any harmonic distorsion caused by the amplification circuit from the lower frequencies. This will then be an improvement in neutrality, provided that phase changes are kept under control. If this is implemented well, then the result can be very interesting. I hope to be able to test this.

 Roberto

It sounds better, believe me.

 

[Shure or bust]

I am on the fence guys. Go Audio Technica ha-5000 or Meier Corda classic ?

 

[rasmushorn]

It sounds better, believe me.

Not everyone thinks that. I was in doubt while A/B testing ff versions versus the original. The original has a very detail-focused sound to it. The original versions can be more impressive and has a bit more punchy and edgy feeling to the sound. I can fully understand if some people prefer the original sound. Both are good. The ff-version is more friendly and natural. I can appreciate both equally and I do not regret having my Daccord+Classic updated. 

 

[Richter Di]

Not everyone thinks that. I was in doubt while A/B testing ff versions versus the original. The original has a very detail-focused sound to it. The original versions can be more impressive and has a bit more punchy and edgy feeling to the sound. I can fully understand if some people prefer the original sound. Both are good. The ff-version is more friendly and natural. I can appreciate both equally and I do not regret having my Daccord+Classic updated. 

I might have had to add in IMHO.
For me it is clearly more transparent with the ff. There is just more music while nothing is getting worser. So for me the ff makes a huge difference. But clearly only in my opinion.