[SilverEars]

  JH at Google: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Inno2Lj8H5g&list=UUbmNph6atAoGfqLoCL_duAg

Thanks for the vid.  

  This guy is a genius, impresses me how tech smart and creative he is.  Regarding his beliefs on neutral sound, atleast Roxanne you can tune it yourself so he's not forcing you to listen to something that's not, and people say JH13 is neural and he also offers JH16 for those that need something that's not.  He makes IEMs for musicians, he will make sound tailored for these musicians whether it be neutral, warm, cold, or whatever.

 

[Trogdor]

I find it interesting that he thinks flat frequency response is 'boring,' which I am perplexed over this statement. Why do most people associate neutral with being dull and not vibrant. The way I see it, with a neutral response you get out what you put in. If the recording is bassy or trebley, then this will be replicated through the speakers. I do not understand why it is necessary to alter a frequency response in order to 'liven' up the sound. If the recording is dull, then it should sound dull and vice versa. Anyone care to shed some light on this?

You are assuming your ears are linear with respect to frequency response. There not (even close, see Fletcher-Munson or ISO 226).

A flat curve would not sound great, you need to compensate for how you PERCEIVE sound. All I'm saying is that even if I had the perfect headphone that was razor straight from 20-20, I would probably want to minimally EQ them to adjust for the deficiencies in my ear.

And then their are folks who aren't looking for neutrality at all, and want warmth and so forth...see tubes and 2nd order harmonics...etc.

 

[SilverEars]

You are assuming your ears are linear with respect to frequency response. Their not (even close, see Fletcher-Munson or ISO 226).

A flat curve would not sound great, you need to compensate for how you PERCEIVE sound. All I'm saying is that even if I had the perfect headphone that was razor straight from 20-20, I would probably want to minimally EQ them to adjust for the deficiencies in my ear.

And then their are folks who aren't looking for neutrality at all, and want warmth and so forth...see tubes and 2nd order harmonics...etc.

Yup, I agree with this.  Read this thread on why headphone curve is not flat, and why we cannot rely on headphone graphs to judge the characteristics of the headphones.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/708803/why-does-headphones-fr-graph-not-look-neutral-like-a-straight-line-like-output-of-devices-why-is-the-high-end-have-lots-of-peaks

 

[SilverEars]

I find it interesting that he thinks flat frequency response is 'boring,' which I am perplexed over this statement. Why do most people associate neutral with being dull and not vibrant. The way I see it, with a neutral response you get out what you put in. If the recording is bassy or trebley, then this will be replicated through the speakers. I do not understand why it is necessary to alter a frequency response in order to 'liven' up the sound. If the recording is dull, then it should sound dull and vice versa. Anyone care to shed some light on this?

I just saw the video, and he says his designs are meant for transparency foremost.  What comes in, goes out.  I like that.
 
He says he doesn't tune it flat, but accurate.  So that means he is aware flat tuning is not accurate.

 

[Lukalop]

Trogdor SilverEars

Is this why there is so much conflict on these forums of people disputing over how a speaker sounds with its characteristics (warm, neutral, cold)? Because each individuals ears alter the output so that when input in their ear canal the sound is perceived differently. Similarly to how people are colour blind.

 

[SilverEars]

@Trogdor @SilverEars

Is this why there is so much conflict on these forums of people disputing over how a speaker sounds with its characteristics (warm, neutral, cold)? Because each individuals ears alter the output so that when input in their ear canal the sound is perceived differently. Similarly to how people are colour blind.

Look here, regarding this guy's ear test results.  http://www.head-fi.org/t/714444/how-to-maintain-your-hearing-quality-please-share-your-opinion-here
 

 
I believe there is some degree of difference to how each individual hears, but also the headphones have characteristics it provides.  There are lots of variables such as people's perception at the time, and etc..  It's good to tune to people's ears, which UERM does and JH is looking to doing that more precisely I believe.

 

[Lukalop]

  Look here, regarding this guy's ear test results.  http://www.head-fi.org/t/714444/how-to-maintain-your-hearing-quality-please-share-your-opinion-here
 

 
I believe there is some degree of difference to how each individual hears, but also the headphones have characteristics it provides.  There are lots of variables such as people's perception at the time, and etc..  It's good to tune to people's ears, which UERM does and JH is looking to doing that more precisely I believe.

 
How do they tune to one's ears? They don't know how you hear.

 

[Nuwidol]

Also, not everybody is capable of hearing all frequencies equally. Some people can only hear up to 15-16k & other can hear beyond 19-20k. This obviously plays a huge part too in how people perceive sound.

 

[Trogdor]

Trogdor SilverEars

Is this why there is so much conflict on these forums of people disputing over how a speaker sounds with its characteristics (warm, neutral, cold)? Because each individuals ears alter the output so that when input in their ear canal the sound is perceived differently. Similarly to how people are colour blind.

Unfortunately the answer is much more complicated than that...

Room acoustics come into play. Ear canal shape. Age. Expectation Bias (this is this most prevalent problem on HFi IMO).

Suffice it to say, dissent among audio gear can be attributed to a lot of factors.

 

[SilverEars]

   
How do they tune to one's ears? They don't know how you hear.

What I mean by tune to people's ears is having people tune the iems themselves to their preferences.  Ultimate Ears Personal Reference Monitors uses Reference Tuning Box to tune the iems to your preferences.  Roxanne, you tune yourself, but JH says we are getting closer to letting you tune the headphones to our personal preferences.

 

[DrewK]

I was told mine is tentatively due on late June. Really frustrating!

When did you order yours?

 

[sutjahjo]

So long ago I don't even want to remember. All I can say is I am extremely disappointed. While I won't cancel my order (custom CF), this is most likely my very last JH.

 

[kh600rr]

So long ago I don't even want to remember. All I can say is I am extremely disappointed. While I won't cancel my order (custom CF), this is most likely my very last JH.

Sorry to hear about your delay, you've got to be bummed out. I really did a lot of reading here on the Roxanne thread, several things I got out of it, they sound fantastic, and there are lots of production delays, quality control issues. I think I would have purchased the Roxanne's, if they had there act together more on these aspects. Instead i went with the Noble K-10's. Haven't got the yet, can't wait.

 

[sutjahjo]

When did you order yours?

Sorry to hear about your delay, you've got to be bummed out. I really did a lot of reading here on the Roxanne thread, several things I got out of it, they sound fantastic, and there are lots of production delays, quality control issues. I think I would have purchased the Roxanne's, if they had there act together more on these aspects. Instead i went with the Noble K-10's. Haven't got the yet, can't wait.

I love the Roxanne SQ (based on the universal demo) and that's the reason I won't cancel my order even if I could. I don't even mind waiting if I had been constantly notified as good things are worth the wait. Depending on my eventual listening experience, I might continue to sing praise on the Roxanne, but wouldn't want to relive the agony of this chaotic uncertainty.

 

[HalfBakedPotato]

And so commences another week...