[Devodonaldson]

I believe you mean the ES9016... the ES9010 is in the Black.

With which headphones does the Red smack the Black around?

Lol. Yes I meant 9016. It's not the headphones. It's clarity and detail. Black is a bit warmer but Red is the more detailed. I've experienced this with every pair of headphones or is I've used.

 

[CactusPete23]

What is the purpose of combining an amp with one of the DF models if they already have an amp built in? I'm just curious.

He did say this... The DFR is a little cold, or bright sounding. Though a warm amp that ends up normalizing to add some bass and reduce some high frequencies. So, portable/"on the go" use just DFR. At home DFR to a warm headphone amp, or a warm main amp may give more balanced sound. DFR is pretty good, very detailed, by itself.

Some folks pair the DFR with warmer sounding iems/headphones for same reason.

IF your iems/headphones are cold/bright sounding, DFR might sound too cold/bright.

Generalizing what folks say in this thread. Some love DFR. Some Prefer the DFB because it's warmer, but a bit less detailed..

 

[alterndog]

What is the purpose of combining an amp with one of the DF models if they already have an amp built in? I'm just curious.

Personally for me the DFB is a cheap portable amp/dac for my S8. While I'm home though I plan as using the DFB as my external dac for my laptop and pair it with a tube Amp (not sure which one yet, little dot I+ or Vali 2). This will power my hd6xx.

I like the versatility of the DFB.

 

[WoodyLuvr]

Lol. Yes I meant 9016. It's not the headphones. It's clarity and detail. Black is a bit warmer but Red is the more detailed. I've experienced this with every pair of headphones or is I've used.

I guess the point I am trying to get across is that with certain low impedance headphones and IEMs that clarity and detail you speak of from the DFR may not be that notable nor will it offer any benefits, possibly opposite in fact... so in a sense it is about the headphones. Headphone/speaker compatibility with amps/DACs is crucial and I don't think there are blanket products (especially amps/DACs) that will sound great with any/all headphones/speakers nor cover everyone's listening preference and volume.

 

[VRacer-111]

What is the purpose of combining an amp with one of the DF models if they already have an amp built in? I'm just curious.

While the DAC section is excellent, the amp section of the DFR/DFB doesn't allow for its full potential. On the go its fine enough, but if used for a desktop system, you could connect the DFR to a suitable external amp in line out mode to get noticeably better sound quality. Doesn't work well with all amps (Meier JAZZ-ff being one that doesn't pair well with it), but with a complimentary amp (the Gustard H10 is such one) you gain more detail, speed, dynamics, bass extension, and impact.

 

[Devodonaldson]

I guess the point I am trying to get across is that with certain low impedance headphones and IEMs that clarity and detail you speak of from the DFR may not be that notable nor will it offer any benefits, possibly opposite in fact... so in a sense it is about the headphones. Headphone/speaker compatibility with amps/DACs is crucial and I don't think there are blanket products (especially amps/DACs) that will sound great with any/all headphones/speakers nor cover everyone's listening preference and volume.

V-Moda XS, Crossfade 2, Sennheiser Momentum, Monoprice m300, KZ ZST, AKG Q701, Audioquest Nightowl, Fostex T50rp. All very noticeable positive changes in detail retrieval, etc.

 

[Cheffy]

I guess the point I am trying to get across is that with certain low impedance headphones and IEMs that clarity and detail you speak of from the DFR may not be that notable nor will it offer any benefits, possibly opposite in fact... so in a sense it is about the headphones. Headphone/speaker compatibility with amps/DACs is crucial and I don't think there are blanket products (especially amps/DACs) that will sound great with any/all headphones/speakers nor cover everyone's listening preference and volume.

It's definitely about the headphones. A transparent amp (ostensibly like the DFR) should sound "great" with any headphone in that it's meant to clean noise and showcase what that headphone does. If the listener doesn't like it, then they probably bought the wrong headphone for their tastes! That said, the brightness of certain phones might not be so apparent until the user hooks them up with a transparent amp, so if they want to tweak the sound a flavoured amp might be useful. Would be easier to tweak the EQ though.

 

[JayNetTech5]

It's definitely about the headphones. A transparent amp (ostensibly like the DFR) should sound "great" with any headphone in that it's meant to clean noise and showcase what that headphone does. If the listener doesn't like it, then they probably bought the wrong headphone for their tastes! That said, the brightness of certain phones might not be so apparent until the user hooks them up with a transparent amp, so if they want to tweak the sound a flavoured amp might be useful. Would be easier to tweak the EQ though.

Maybe I just pay attention to the littlest details, but I notice that pairing the same dac/amp with various headphones gives me a similar sound signature across the board with differences being the frequency response bump in some areas of those specific headphones. That's why I care so much about the quality of the source itself, so I can pair most of my headphones to it with little problems.

 

[rbhelle]

Hello. I have not read through 256 pages of posts in this forum, so hopefully I am excused when I post this question:
I just tried a DFR with Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 80 ohm with a Huawei Mate 9 Pro with Android 7 Nougat. All is well but I must say that DFB has a lot more volume level than DFR. I also tested them in an Apple product, and then the result was reversed. The DFR had a lot more volum, than the DFB...Talked with the tech guys at a hifi store in Norway, and they said that this was a known issue with DFR and Android phones? So they recommended that Android users by DFB and Apple iphone/ipad users by the DFR.
Must say that I don`t actually hear any difference between those 2 DACs when connected to ac computer listening to Tidal best quality music....But I have some damage to mye ears as well, so maybe this is the reason.

 

[silmusic]

All is well but I must say that DFB has a lot more volume level than DFR. I also tested them in an Apple product, and then the result was reversed.

Try Android with USB Audio Player PRO, HibyMusic, or Onkyo HF Player. All allow hardware volume control on external DAC.

 

[Cheffy]

Maybe I just pay attention to the littlest details, but I notice that pairing the same dac/amp with various headphones gives me a similar sound signature across the board with differences being the frequency response bump in some areas of those specific headphones. That's why I care so much about the quality of the source itself, so I can pair most of my headphones to it with little problems.

I guess it depends on what you're defining as source here. I take source to mean the actual digital file being played, and possibly the DAC. Since most DACs are largely regarded to have imperceptible differences unless they're old and/or a low quality unit, it's probably safe to say the source is file+DAC. And if that's the case, there shouldn't be any actual influence on the sound itself. After that, it's the amp and headphones that flavour the sound.

Using the same source, the most distinctive aspect of audio sound signature can usually be attributed to the headphones themselves - they're carefully tuned to provide a unique sound on the basis of driver selection, impedance, cup shape/materials, pad shape/materials, the room they're being used in, etc. There are far more factors influencing sound in headphones because there are so many physical components involved that can influence that sound.

Amps themselves are typically less variable. Some amps clean the background noise better than others - this can influence things like detail, imaging, and soundstage. But all good quality amps should have a very low noise floor. Some can certainly flavour sound, potentially adding a little warmth, but to a much lower extent than the headphones themselves. Simply standardising the volume and gain between amps will probably sort out most if not all of that difference. In standardised blind tests, most perceived differences between amps mysteriously disappear...

Take this with a grain of salt of course - experiences can differ, and mixing different equipment with their own slight sound differences might create unique sound signatures. But in general, it seems that once differences in gain/volume are controlled, differences in sound signature are largely attributable to headphones. People really tend to over-estimate their ability to actually hear differences - most of us don't have "golden ears", and without years of dedicated formal training and experience, even golden ears aren't that golden.

 

[Devodonaldson]

Hello. I have not read through 256 pages of posts in this forum, so hopefully I am excused when I post this question:
I just tried a DFR with Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 80 ohm with a Huawei Mate 9 Pro with Android 7 Nougat. All is well but I must say that DFB has a lot more volume level than DFR. I also tested them in an Apple product, and then the result was reversed. The DFR had a lot more volum, than the DFB...Talked with the tech guys at a hifi store in Norway, and they said that this was a known issue with DFR and Android phones? So they recommended that Android users by DFB and Apple iphone/ipad users by the DFR.
Must say that I don`t actually hear any difference between those 2 DACs when connected to ac computer listening to Tidal best quality music....But I have some damage to mye ears as well, so maybe this is the reason.

You say you've read through 256 pages, but unfortunately you missed the numerous posts regarding this. Click on me and find my posts in this section. I've detailed instructions on more than one occasion

 

[Cheffy]

You say you've read through 256 pages, but unfortunately you missed the numerous posts regarding this. Click on me and find my posts in this section. I've detailed instructions on more than one occasion

Actually they said they didn't read 256 pages.

It's not as easy to find as you might think by searching this website, especially when you don't know what the problem is. There should be a stickied thread somewhere with info on the mobile phones and volume issues.

More curiously - I'm not sure exactly what question rbhelle is asking!

 

[rbhelle]

Try Android with USB Audio Player PRO, HibyMusic, or Onkyo HF Player. All allow hardware volume control on external DAC.

Hi.

Thank you, I just bought and installed that USB Audio Player PRO and that completely solved my volume issues. I now have al lot higher volume output through DFB. It also worked with DFR, but since I boyúght the Black version I am going to stick with this. Unfortunately I cannot hear any specific difference in quality between these two when playing Tidal songs (highest quality) from my Mate 9 Pro and Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 80 ohm. Probably my subjective hearing ears that are not normal Anyway, thank you for the helping answer. Mostly grateful

 

[Cheffy]

Hi.

Thank you, I just bought and installed that USB Audio Player PRO and that completely solved my volume issues. I now have al lot higher volume output through DFB. It also worked with DFR, but since I boyúght the Black version I am going to stick with this. Unfortunately I cannot hear any specific difference in quality between these two when playing Tidal songs (highest quality) from my Mate 9 Pro and Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 80 ohm. Probably my subjective hearing ears that are not normal Anyway, thank you for the helping answer. Mostly grateful

The difference is probably pretty subtle for the most part, so I wouldn't worry - if it sounds good, that's all that matters!