New Dragonfly Black and Red Discussion

[sejsel]

  Hi everybody!
 
Today I have the opportunity to make some A/B/C test between Audioquest dragonfly black, red and Mojo
 
For that purpose I have used:
+ European iPhone 6+ with camera connector
+ Last generation Macbook pro.
+ Jh Audio Angie IEMs (17 ohms)
+ TIDAL HI-FI
+ 24/96 FLAC files
 
First of all, please do not compare both drangonfly with Mojo.
It is no fear in both ways becuase Mojo is extremely better in sound quality, and dragonflies in portability.
And in my opinion neither of them are a one-device-for-all.
 
Second, if I have to choose between black and red, I pull the trigger on black without any doubt.
 
Here you have my summary.
+ Black offers a little bit warmer sound than red.
+ Black offers higher output volumen than red. Huge differences at this point.
+ Black offers more space than red.
+ iOS plug and play experience is superb in both cases.
+ Portability is awesome. They offer a true portable rig (no battery, compact and almost invisible)
 
Hope this would be useful for other head-fiers

 
Got the Red, and noticed that output volume is significantly lower than Audioengine D3.
 
Can anyone confirm the point 2 here (in the quoted post) - that Black offer higher output volume than the Red?
The impression I've got previously from all the reviews and posts was the other way round.
 
I have less than a week to determine this, and the funny thing is that the claim is also than the sound quality of the Red is superior, whereas here I read a bit contradictory impressions (to some extent) .

 

[pkcpga]

Got the Red, and noticed that output volume is significantly lower than Audioengine D3.

Can anyone confirm the point 2 here (in the quoted post) - that Black offer higher output volume than the Red?
The impression I've got previously from all the reviews and posts was the other way round.

I have less than a week to determine this, and the funny thing is that the claim is also than the sound quality of the Red is superior, whereas here I read a bit contradictory impressions (to some extent) .

I didn't find overall volume higher in the black or red just better volume control with the red. The black one click up could be a major volume jump instead of a normal step or could be nothing. They have different sound signatures so I think it depends on what you like better, the black offers more bass response and thicker vocals but a little muddier to me than the red but the red sounds a bit thin to me with a slight extension to the highs that in certain songs was unpleasant for me. But the red definitely has more detailed mids a bit thinner than the black but more detail and well as more detail in the highs. So I think it's personal preference if you are a basshead go with the black, you like extended highs with the extra detail go with the red. But I didn't notice a major volume difference more of a volume control difference. I used an iPhone so not sure if there's any fix on volume with androids yet without using an app.

 

[SpiderNhan]

From what I've gleaned reading this thread, the performance of the DFB and DFR is source dependent. Even on my Android powered Galaxy S6 Active running the DFR with native Android USB audio conversion sounds quieter with lower audio fidelity than through USB Audio Player Pro. I can confirm that there is some upconversion happening using native Android protocol because the DFR LED stays at a constant magenta signaling that it is outputting at 96khz regardless of the sample rate of my media. Through USB Audio Player Pro, the colors will change according to the file being played.
 
Plugged into my desktop PC or laptop will yield a similar result where the DFR will default to whichever sample rate I set in Windows. If I set it to 44.1, the DFR remains green exclusively. If I set it to 96 it will stay magenta. It's only when I override Windows' Directsound protocol using WASAPI through JRiver Media Center that the DFR will match the sample rates of my media. I don't have any Apple products so I don't know the variations in performance that can occur with iOS and MacOS, but I'm sure there will be differences there as well.

 

[kmp14]

I just sent audioquest a question about the Android volume level. I realize the topic been discussed to death but I just got my red, and I'm happy with the sound with the app that lets you get the volume up, but I would also like to use the better DAC with Google Play music. So without an update or fix from them I think my red will be going back.

I would assume they're getting this question a lot, and I will get a stock answer. But the unfortunate reality is I do have to return it if that volume level problem can't get fixed. I will report back if I get any kind of different answer than the ones I have seen already.

 

[sejsel]

I didn't find overall volume higher in the black or red just better volume control with the red. The black one click up could be a major volume jump instead of a normal step or could be nothing. They have different sound signatures so I think it depends on what you like better, the black offers more bass response and thicker vocals but a little muddier to me than the red but the red sounds a bit thin to me with a slight extension to the highs that in certain songs was unpleasant for me. But the red definitely has more detailed mids a bit thinner than the black but more detail and well as more detail in the highs. So I think it's personal preference if you are a basshead go with the black, you like extended highs with the extra detail go with the red. But I didn't notice a major volume difference more of a volume control difference. I used an iPhone so not sure if there's any fix on volume with androids yet without using an app.

Thank You, much appreciated. It is always good to hear for oneself, which I intend to do tomorrow in the local shop, where It was bought.
 
The thing is that - what You point out regarding "basshead vs. otherwise" that I am definitely not a basshead, so it will be interesting comparison hopefully tomorrow.
I would be honestly disappointed if Black gave higher volume output than the Red, since it should be the other way around according to the specs. (if I got them, and interpreted them correctly).
 
I am reading the thread from the beginning and am somewhere at the page 6 or 7 reading through the posts. A lot of contradictory claims and confusion that far.
 
Might be important to mention in this contex - I use MacBook Pro Retina, and Iphone SE. Used Android some time ago, and occasionaly on one old tablet and smaller Sony xperia model, hardly ever now, since I got the Iphone.

 

[pkcpga]

Thank You, much appreciated. It is always good to hear for oneself, which I intend to do tomorrow in the local shop, where It was bought.

The thing is that - what You point out regarding "basshead vs. otherwise" that I am definitely not a basshead, so it will be interesting comparison hopefully tomorrow.
I would be honestly disappointed if Black gave higher volume output than the Red, since it should be the other way around according to the specs. (if I got them, and interpreted them correctly).

I am reading the thread from the beginning and am somewhere at the page 6 or 7 reading through the posts. A lot of contradictory claims and confusion that far.

Might be important to mention in this contex - I use MacBook Pro Retina, and Iphone SE. Used Android some time ago, and occasionaly on one old tablet and smaller Sony xperia model, hardly ever now, since I got the Iphone.

Good luck, volume goes up quickier on the black but than stops changing after about 50%, is what I noticed while the red takes more clicks to get to that volume but has even volume steps. But I didn't notice a different end volume between them. More of a sound signature difference. Neither powered full sized headphones like LCD 3's or grado well for me, fine with IEM's or headphones that don't require power to sound full. So depends on what your looking to power, Apple only allows a certain amount of power to be drawn before it turns off the external power supply to the device.

 

[sejsel]

Good luck, volume goes up quickier on the black but than stops changing after about 50%, is what I noticed while the red takes more clicks to get to that volume but has even volume steps. But I didn't notice a different end volume between them. More of a sound signature difference. Neither powered full sized headphones like LCD 3's or grado well for me, fine with IEM's or headphones that don't require power to sound full. So depends on what your looking to power, Apple only allows a certain amount of power to be drawn before it turns off the external power supply to the device.

Taken all your point into account, forgot to mention some of them earlier when replying - but you have repeated them now (thankfully, I have to say !    ) .
 
Never intended to power full sized headphones with the Dragonfly, only done a brief test with Senn HD600 and AKG K701.
 
Returned Denon AH-MM400 today, to much bass presence to my ears (in some EDM tracks, at times perfect, at times too much, so I decided it was not worth it).
Ran the days before today with Denon headphones.
 
I will be getting the Audio Technica ATH MSR7 probably tomorrow or on tuesday, other than that I am about to purchase XTZ Earphone 12 as an in-ear option when going out.
Denon and ATH MSR7 are rated as 35ohm impedance cans.
 
The question remains whether there is really any benefit from using the DFs with XTZ earpohones.

 

[SpiderNhan]

Some interesting news if it proves to be true.



Quote: "If you're thinking, "Well the DragonFlys are limited to 24/96," you like me, would be wrong."


 


Full article below.

http://www.audiostream.com/content/mqa-blue-new-black#LLfOIagLAyS2tJFG.99

 

[all999]

Is MQA udate already out, or do we have to wait for it?

 

[Mojo777]

Yeah I just signed back up on Tidal to try out MQA "Masters" and am curious of the update is coming soon or should I pick up a Meridian Explorer 2 to try out this format

 

[pkcpga]

Yeah I just signed back up on Tidal to try out MQA "Masters" and am curious of the update is coming soon or should I pick up a Meridian Explorer 2 to try out this format

I tried emailing audioquest and the only response I got was "stay tuned it's in the works". So there is no official release date as of yet. If you have a bluesound it plays mqa through tidal already, as long as you did your bluesound update.

 

[Citsur86]

AudioQuest is saying by the end of this month. But what's weird is I tried master tracks in Tidal with the Dragonfly plugged in and everytime I tried a master track (having first changed the setting in Tidal to give it exclusive use of the Dragonfly Red) the DAC went magenta to indicate it was receiving a 96KHz source. But since it does not currently support MQA, what is it actually delivering to my headphones? If I don't use the Dragonfly Red, and play the Master MQA track through my Mac directly to my headphones, is MQA getting properly decoded?

 

[Slaphead]

AudioQuest is saying by the end of this month. But what's weird is I tried master tracks in Tidal with the Dragonfly plugged in and everytime I tried a master track (having first changed the setting in Tidal to give it exclusive use of the Dragonfly Red) the DAC went magenta to indicate it was receiving a 96KHz source. But since it does not currently support MQA, what is it actually delivering to my headphones? If I don't use the Dragonfly Red, and play the Master MQA track through my Mac directly to my headphones, is MQA getting properly decoded?

An MQA signal will work with any DAC. If the DAC you're using doesn't support MQA decoding then, from what I understand, the least significant 3 bits, which are used to encode MQA, effectively become noise resulting in a 18dB dynamic range reduction. With a 24 bit signal you won't even begin to notice it. If, however somebody knows a bit mre than I do about MQA encoding then please correct me.

My opinion of MQA is this - if it had come out 10 years ago then it would be a massive thing, if it had come out 5 years ago it would have been a big thing. Two and a half years ago, when it did make an appearance it was a thing, but these days it not necessary due to the increases of internet bandwidth. In the last 10 years I've seen my internet bandwith climb from 10Mbps to 20Mbps to 50Mbps to 100Mbps to 500Mbps and now I'm sitting on a 1Gbps connection with no increase in cost - MQA is not as needed today as it would have been 5 or 10 years ago.

Nice idea, but a bit late to the party.

 

[pkcpga]

An MQA signal will work with any DAC. If the DAC you're using doesn't support MQA decoding then, from what I understand, the least significant 3 bits, which are used to encode MQA, effectively become noise resulting in a 18dB dynamic range reduction. With a 24 bit signal you won't even begin to notice it. If, however somebody knows a bit mre than I do about MQA encoding then please correct me.

My opinion of MQA is this - if it had come out 10 years ago then it would be a massive thing, if it had come out 5 years ago it would have been a big thing. Two and a half years ago, when it did make an appearance it was a thing, but these days it not necessary due to the increases of internet bandwidth. In the last 10 years I've seen my internet bandwith climb from 10Mbps to 20Mbps to 50Mbps to 100Mbps to 500Mbps and now I'm sitting on a 1Gbps connection with no increase in cost - MQA is not as needed today as it would have been 5 or 10 years ago.

Nice idea, but a bit late to the party.

I'd disagree since shortly you'll be able to play better sound quality music on the go without having to predownload it. And I already have some downloaded in mqa since the file sizes are drastically smaller than dsd. Plus you can already stream wirelessly from Tidal in mqa quality if you have a bluesound node 2. So I find plenty of advantages and I find the mqa files to be noticeably better than cd files or regular tidal hifi.

 

[sejsel]

Now, this is what I'm talking about... Nice to see you boys going at it... Keep on keepin' on