[motif2013]

Ha anyone had experience running Dragonfly (Red or Black) from an IPAD with either the CCK cable or the newer Lightning to USB 3 Cable? Any sound Quality Issues?

 

[hornytoad]

  Ha anyone had experience running Dragonfly (Red or Black) from an IPAD with either the CCK cable or the newer Lightning to USB 3 Cable? Any sound Quality Issues?

I had problems with the original CCK . Clicks and pops galore with my Iphone 6 plus s. 
 
I went to the newer CCK with the power port .Not only does it sound better than the original it has been completely  click and pop free and I use it 4-6 hours weekly. 

 

[buzzlulu]

Dragonfly's seem to be out of stock in a few places. Are they reconfiguring them to fix the click and popping issues on the new IPhone 7's??

Have they public ally addressed this issue?

 

[good sound]

Dragonfly's seem to be out of stock in a few places. Are they reconfiguring them to fix the click and popping issues on the new IPhone 7's??

Have they public ally addressed this issue?

Yes, they do seem to be somewhat scarce on the new retail market. I sold mine recently and received a lot of responses to my ad.

As far as an update, who knows. Audioquest had a presence in this thread at the beginning but it's been pretty much radio silence on their part lately.

 

[motif2013]

I thought the Lightning to USB3 adaptor cable resolved the pop and click issue

 

[motif2013]

Just got my DFR last week from World Wide Stereo in the Philly Suburbs

 

[willowbrook]

I currently have chord mojo, planning to sell it off. Is the DragonFly Red a good choice if I'm looking for something smaller and cheaper. I don't want any batteries involved because I don't need them. I won't be carrying them around with my phone, will just use with my laptop at home. Is there any other devices like dragonfly red that are competitively priced? or any better models? Thanks.

 

[motif2013]

I can't compare it to the Mojo but I can tell you the Dragonfly Red is stunningly good. I am listening to my iTunes ALAC Albums with wonder. Everything sounds open, detailed, transparent with excellent instrument separation and a wonderful soundstage. Classical, Jazz, Pop all sound engaging. Some said it was bright. I found it to be very open and clear as if someone turned on the light in dim room. You hear exactly what's on the recording good and bad. It's worth every penny. I'm listening via a Beyer DT880 600 Ohm and the volume is never set higher than 40 on the 64 step control and usually it's at 34. You really need good full size headphones to realize what this DAC can deliver.

 

[willowbrook]

Dp

 

[motif2013]

It's a software volume control. The Dragonfly it's a DAC and amp.

 

[LazerBear]

The guys over at Computer Audiophile wrote quite a comprehensive article about Android and (Dragonfly, but also in general) DACs (http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/735-audiophile-switches-ios-android/) and here's one interesting tidbit:
 
"I contacted AudioQuest, manufacturer of the DragonFly Red DAC. AudioQuest is mostly know as a cable company, but it also has extensive knowledge and contacts when it comes to USB DACs, software, and operating systems. I also contacted the designer of the DragonFly, Wavelength Audio's Gordon Rankin. Gordon is unofficially the godfather of USB audio. In my conversations with AudioQuest and Gordon, I learned quite a bit about how the DragonFly works and how Android works, or as I'll characterize it, doesn't work. Please keep in mind that all opinions about the workings of Android and the Google Pixel phone are mine only. AudioQuest and Gordon simply provided facts about the technologies. 

When a device, such as a USB DAC, is connected to any host, in this case a Google Pixel phone, a process called enumeration takes place between the host (Pixel) and peripheral (USB DAC). According to Google's own documentation, enumeration is, "The process of detecting which peripherals are connected to the bus, and querying their properties..." In layman's terms this is a conversation between the phone and DAC, that enables the phone to determine the capabilities of the DAC. A standard enumeration would identify for the host, what sample rates the DAC supports, its power requirements, and the DAC's default and maximum volume levels (if the DAC has volume control). 

Enumerating the volume level is where many Android phones don't follow the agreed upon standards. Keep in mind that some Android device manufacturers and third party app developers have solved this issue. Google, as the creator of the operating system, has elected to not solve the problem. In this specific case, when the DragonFly Red is connected to the Google Pixel phone, the DragonFly tells the Pixel that its default volume is 41. The DragonFly Red has a 64 step digital volume control that defaults to step 41, so as not to ruin ears or equipment when it's initially connected. In its infinite wisdom, Android reads this default volume setting as the DragonFly's maximum volume. Thus, there's no going over step 41 out of 64 when turning up the volume. 

Digging deeper into this issue, reveals a larger issue. When Android adjusts the volume of the DragonFly or any other USB DAC, it's doing so in software, not the DAC's built-in hardware volume control. You can see that the Pixel adjusts its volume from say 0% to 100%, but this is only working between step 0 and 41 in the DragonFly Red USB DC. First we have Android's inability to distinguish between a default volume and maximum volume upon enumeration, then we have Android's inability to operate a hardware volume control on a USB DAC. Both of these fairly simple and very standard items have been done for many years in OS X / macOS, Windows, Linux, and iOS. Android uses the extremely popular Advanced Linux Sound Architecture (ALSA) that is used by nearly every Linux-based audio device you and I have ever used. But, Google has elected to remove many capabilities in its version called tinyalsa. I can see sliming-down software to work on a phone, but stripping out what many consider essential was a frustrating move by Google."
 
The whole article is worth a read, although the writer seems to have missed out on the existence of Alsa Amixer. I sent them a PM with the details and am waiting feedback.

 

[willowbrook]

  The guys over at Computer Audiophile wrote quite a comprehensive article about Android and (Dragonfly, but also in general) DACs (http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/735-audiophile-switches-ios-android/) and here's one interesting tidbit:
 
"I contacted AudioQuest, manufacturer of the DragonFly Red DAC. AudioQuest is mostly know as a cable company, but it also has extensive knowledge and contacts when it comes to USB DACs, software, and operating systems. I also contacted the designer of the DragonFly, Wavelength Audio's Gordon Rankin. Gordon is unofficially the godfather of USB audio. In my conversations with AudioQuest and Gordon, I learned quite a bit about how the DragonFly works and how Android works, or as I'll characterize it, doesn't work. Please keep in mind that all opinions about the workings of Android and the Google Pixel phone are mine only. AudioQuest and Gordon simply provided facts about the technologies. 

When a device, such as a USB DAC, is connected to any host, in this case a Google Pixel phone, a process called enumeration takes place between the host (Pixel) and peripheral (USB DAC). According to Google's own documentation, enumeration is, "The process of detecting which peripherals are connected to the bus, and querying their properties..." In layman's terms this is a conversation between the phone and DAC, that enables the phone to determine the capabilities of the DAC. A standard enumeration would identify for the host, what sample rates the DAC supports, its power requirements, and the DAC's default and maximum volume levels (if the DAC has volume control). 

Enumerating the volume level is where many Android phones don't follow the agreed upon standards. Keep in mind that some Android device manufacturers and third party app developers have solved this issue. Google, as the creator of the operating system, has elected to not solve the problem. In this specific case, when the DragonFly Red is connected to the Google Pixel phone, the DragonFly tells the Pixel that its default volume is 41. The DragonFly Red has a 64 step digital volume control that defaults to step 41, so as not to ruin ears or equipment when it's initially connected. In its infinite wisdom, Android reads this default volume setting as the DragonFly's maximum volume. Thus, there's no going over step 41 out of 64 when turning up the volume. 

Digging deeper into this issue, reveals a larger issue. When Android adjusts the volume of the DragonFly or any other USB DAC, it's doing so in software, not the DAC's built-in hardware volume control. You can see that the Pixel adjusts its volume from say 0% to 100%, but this is only working between step 0 and 41 in the DragonFly Red USB DC. First we have Android's inability to distinguish between a default volume and maximum volume upon enumeration, then we have Android's inability to operate a hardware volume control on a USB DAC. Both of these fairly simple and very standard items have been done for many years in OS X / macOS, Windows, Linux, and iOS. Android uses the extremely popular Advanced Linux Sound Architecture (ALSA) that is used by nearly every Linux-based audio device you and I have ever used. But, Google has elected to remove many capabilities in its version called tinyalsa. I can see sliming-down software to work on a phone, but stripping out what many consider essential was a frustrating move by Google."
 
The whole article is worth a read, although the writer seems to have missed out the existence of Alsa Amixer. I sent them a PM with the details and am waiting feedback.

Thanks for the read.

 

[learpot]

I currently have chord mojo, planning to sell it off. Is the DragonFly Red a good choice if I'm looking for something smaller and cheaper. I don't want any batteries involved because I don't need them. I won't be carrying them around with my phone, will just use with my laptop at home. Is there any other devices like dragonfly red that are competitively priced? or any better models? Thanks.

Keep the mojo, because mojo is much better than dfr in both resolution and amping the sound. Hugo is better. DFR is not able to drive any of my HD600 and AKG701 with good volume when listening classical music. For dragonfly red, the old cck adapter may give pops and clicks, new usb 3.0 is too big in my opinion and it will be awkward to attach it to the back of the iphone.

 

[andiB]

Ha anyone had experience running Dragonfly (Red or Black) from an IPAD with either the CCK cable or the newer Lightning to USB 3 Cable? Any sound Quality Issues?

I'm using the DFR with my iPad mini 2 running iOS 10.1.1 with the old CCK. This combo sounds fantastic to my ears without any sound quality issues.

 

[willowbrook]

Keep the mojo, because mojo is much better than dfr in both resolution and amping the sound. Hugo is better. DFR is not able to drive any of my HD600 and AKG701 with good volume when listening classical music. For dragonfly red, the old cck adapter may give pops and clicks, new usb 3.0 is too big in my opinion and it will be awkward to attach it to the back of the iphone.

Thinking of getting the new geekout v2a. There is no point for me to keep the mojo because I never carry it around, don't need the battery nor portability. Growing tired of the synergy with my flc8s too.