[deco cat]

If you find that the Red doesn’t draw enough power to your HE-400i, then keep the Red and use it as a DAC in DAC mode for a higher power setup (Schiit Magni 3, O2 or similar budget amp). The Red is a fabulous DAC, one of the best there is at this price range. In DAC mode, it works flawlessly with my Massdrop O2 amp, for example. And if you use more efficient headphones in the future (most headphones are more efficient than your HE-400i, whatever the impedance), then your DragonFly Red will still be the king of the hill as a portable DAC/amp. I use it everyday with most of my headphone gear, see under my signature...

Nice advise! How to set Red in DAC only mode. Is it possible to connect another amp to Red? What you suggest for portability? Or a less power hungry headphone with same quality than HE-400i?

 

[PeteMtl]

Nice advise! How to set Red in DAC only mode. Is it possible to connect another amp to Red? What you suggest for portability? Or a less power hungry headphone with same quality than HE-400i?

1.If you plug the 3.5 mm output of the DFR to any amp using the basic required cable (basic 3.5mm to 3.5mm jacks or 3.5mm to RCA plugs, depending on the amp’s analog inputs available), then the DFR will automatically enter in DAC mode. You may use any amp with the Dragonfly Red, even the aux input of a stereo receiver / integrated amplifier if you wish. It will play just like a cd player plugged to an amp’s input, with its 2.1V output capability, just like a vintage CD player or a DVD/Blu Ray plugged from its stereo analog output. I do not spend a lot of money on amps, and I use the DFR as a DAC/amp or else I use the Massdrop O2 basic headphone amp. I have two of these, one with the integrated SDAC, the other as a standalone O2 amp. Apparently, the Schiit Magni 3 and others from this manufacturer are great little headphone amps that won’t ruin your budget. Many other amps are available out there, including some tube amps. I never tried tube amps, always been with solid state or IC transistor amps. Check on Massdrop, they carry many different amps offered from time to time. Both the O2 from Massdrop or other builders and the Schiit Magni 3 may be purchased as standalone headphone amps for 100$ or so. And they both provide all the power you need (except if you want to go deaf in a hurry). The O2 may be used with rechargeable 9V NIMH batteries and is therefore useable as a truly portable amp, but it is a little bulky. Check out truly portable amps from FIIO, Topping, Creative Labs, iFi, etc.
2. To be frank, most headphones out there are less power hungry than the HE-400i. If you like open headphones, alternative headphones with same quality include Sennheiser HD600 series headphones (HD600, HD650, HD660S, and the HD6XX and HD58X from Massdrop/Sennheiser collaboration). I would also include the Hifiman HE-400S which is supposed to be more efficient than the HE-400i and uses a lower impedance load. Many other headphones out there from Beyerdynamic and AKG in their over average quality headphones. Philips X2 is also well Regarded. I forget many other fair open headphones, check also Grado, Focal and Audio Technica, each of them having their own sound. You may also check out closed headphones which have their own pluses and minuses compared to open headphones. The Dragonfly Red will drive most headphones, including such 150 to 300 ohms headphones from Sennheiser, because of its 2.1V output capability.

 

[georgelai57]

I thought you need the DFR volume to be at max (by maximising your source’s volume) to put it into Line Out mode for connecting to another amp.

 

[PeteMtl]

I thought you need the DFR volume to be at max (by maximising your source’s volume) to put it into Line Out mode for connecting to another amp.

Yes you do if you want to reach 2.1V rms output out of your DFR

 

[georgelai57]

Yes you do if you want to reach 2.1V rms output out of your DFR

Okay thanks for clarifying because in your first mode, you had said that it automatically goes into DAC mode. Probably just semantics. Cheers.

 

[stephanemtl]

I get lots of static artifacts when using the Dragonfly Red as a dac to feed the signal to my new portable amplifier: Vorzuge Duo II.

iPhone (max volume) ==> Red Dragonfly (line out) ==> Portable Amplifier ==> HEADPHONES

Those static artifacts occur only when the amp's TREBLE/BASS BOOST is on... and it occurs only with low frequencies.

Can this problem be related to the 2.1 V output of the Dragonfly Red? which would, somehow, overdrive the input stage of the amplifier?

 

[PeteMtl]

I get lots of static artifacts when using the Dragonfly Red as a dac to feed the signal to my new portable amplifier: Vorzuge Duo II.

iPhone (max volume) ==> Red Dragonfly (line out) ==> Portable Amplifier ==> HEADPHONES

Those static artifacts occur only when the amp's TREBLE/BASS BOOST is on... and it occurs only with low frequencies.

Can this problem be related to the 2.1 V output of the Dragonfly Red? which would, somehow, overdrive the input stage of the amplifier?

Maybe the voltage gain of your amp is too high for a 2.1V input. Have you tried to lower the DFR’s volume level?

 

[stephanemtl]

Maybe the voltage gain of your amp is too high for a 2.1V input. Have you tried to lower the DFR’s volume level?

You are right. When I turn down the volume on my iPhone... the static is gone! But since the volume of my phone is not at maximum.... the DFR no longer works as a mere DAC, creating double-amplification. No? I thought that to use the DFR strictly as a DAC one had to turn the volume all the way up (according to the manual).

 

[PeteMtl]

You are right. When I turn down the volume on my iPhone... the static is gone! But since the volume of my phone is not at maximum.... the DFR no longer works as a mere DAC, creating double-amplification. No? I thought that to use the DFR strictly as a DAC one had to turn the volume all the way up (according to the manual).

I would say that it is still in DAC mode, only the DAC output is below the 2.1V Max output. No big deal in my opinion...

 

[stephanemtl]

I would say that it is still in DAC mode, only the DAC output is below the 2.1V Max output. No big deal in my opinion...

Does the DFR have a true (unamped) 'line out'? I was under the impression that turning the volume all the way up was actually making a difference by turning the DFR into dac mode, bypassing its internal amplifier.

 

[stephanemtl]

I would say that it is still in DAC mode, only the DAC output is below the 2.1V Max output. No big deal in my opinion...

I just talked to a representative of Audioquest and the DFR does not have a true, unamped, line out. Reducing the volume of the source, therefore, does not alter the quality of its 'line out.'

 

[PeteMtl]

I just talked to a representative of Audioquest and the DFR does not have a true, unamped, line out.

That clarifies the situation...

I don’t think this makes any significative difference. What is a true line out by the way? The DFR behaves like a true line out at 2.1V (or less if you lower the output voltage). A true line out like you say must have some kind of pre-amp output to generate the normally required 2.1V to simulate a CD player typical analog line output. So what is the difference? A normal line out will use some kind of op amps to generate the required voltage output under a resistive load compatible with an external amp’s input.
I use my DFR all the time with my O2 headphone amp and with other amps around such as my Onkyo stereo receiver. It works great even when I lower the DFR’s volume output.

Check out Ken Rockwell’s (google it) Apple product reviews (iPad, IPhones and Mac) and you will see that Apple products may be used as DACs with the normal 3.5mm headphone outputs and according to his benchmark testing, these Apple gears have better DAC output quality than most external DACs on sale, even higher priced DACs. And Apple products have no dedicated line outs...

For example read the part where the benchmark simulates the output into a 200kohms resistive load as if the iPad is used as a line out DAC device into an external amp:
https://kenrockwell.com/apple/ipad-pro-audio-quality.htm

The only downside is that most Apple products cannot reach an output voltage of 2V. Most of them are in the 1V range, with some Mac computers reaching 1.5V. The Wolfson and Cirrus Logic DACs in Apple products are truly superb in my opinion.

 

[stephanemtl]

I don’t think this makes any significative difference. What is a true line out by the way? The DFR behaves like a true line out at 2.1V (or less if you lower the output voltage). A true line out like you say must have some kind of pre-amp output to generate the normally required 2.1V to simulate a CD player typical analog line output. So what is the difference? A normal line out will use some kind of op amps to generate the required voltage output under a resistive load compatible with an external amp’s input.

Interesting point, Pete. Up to now, I was under the impression that there was a significant difference between the "line out" (ready to be amplified) and the "headphone out" (already amplified) signals of a dac&amp.

I will have to think this over and follow the links

 

[NaiveSound]

I'm getting the red dragonfly., I have a note 8 that uses USB C. What cable (on amazon) is ok for me to use to connect my phone to the red?

Also how does one control the volume of the red dragonfly??

 

[megabigeye]

Pretty sure any USB-C "OTG" cable should work. I believe somebody was recommending the Anker cable a page or two back. I don't see why any other with good reviews wouldn't work just as well, though.
I would steer you away from the Belkin one, though, because the DFR doesn't seat all the way in the USB socket. Fortunately, I don't think it's on Amazon.

Control volume on DFR by using the hardware volume keys on your phone. I'm using the S9 and it works very well. If you use USB Audio Player Pro (which I highly recommend for locally stored music), there are all sorts of adjustments for volume control.

EDIT: Oops. The Belkin one is on Amazon and it gets good reviews, but I still wouldn't recommend it. Just make sure whatever you get that the DFR plugs all the way in.