[Swolenasty]

I would say the 650 and the T90 for rock. 650 if you're into the dark, slow, laid back presentation with a nice bass kick and T90 if you're into the bright, zingy, full of energy presentation. 650 is more intimate with a smaller soundstage and T90 has a huge soundstage like you're at a rock concert. Both of these headphones are great for pop too but the T90 is better because the extra brightness helps give pop that energetic vibe. I think that hip hop sounds better on the 650 but the T90 is no slouch either but since it is a bright, revealing HP and a lot of hip hop songs are poorly mastered, the T90 will be very revealing of that. For trance, I'd give definite edge to the T90 although what really sounds great for trance is the T1 Gen 1. I really enjoy Infected Mushroom on the T1. I haven't heard the T5p but I expect it to sound similar to the T1 in that respect. Overall the T90 and the T1 Gen 1 are quite similar. The T90 has slightly more bass and is a good bit brighter with a greater sound stage because it is a fully open head phone. The T1 Gen 2 I haven't heard but from what I know it has more bass or similar bass to the T90 and is much less bright. What I heard from others who listen to trance is that the Gen 1 is better than the Gen 2 for trance. As for the other head phones you listed, I would not recommend the T70, HD 700, or the EL-8. The T70 is a treble cannon with almost no bass, pretty much good for just classical music. The HD700 has more bass than the T70 but still suffers from being overly bright, again pretty much just for classical/orchestral music. I haven't heard the El-8 but from what I have read online, the closed version is an abomination and the open is just all right. Don't know much about VB630 so can't comment on that one.

So your options are:
Sound isolation/Portability: T5p
Bright/Analytical: T1, T90
Dark/Melodic: HD 650

Some things to note is that the T5p and to a lesser extent the T90 don't require much if any amping. You can plug the T5p into your cell phone and you're good to go. T90 will require some extra juice but many portable amps will run it just fine. The T1 sounds significantly better with an amp and is a little picky in that respect, though I expect that to be less true for the Gen 2. The 650 is very amp dependent. The sky is the limit with the 650 or should I say your wallet is. The better your amp, the more performance you can squeeze out of the 650. Without an amp don't bother with the 650 as it sounds terrible.

All these headphones are very comfortable. The 650 is probably the most comfortable out of them because it has the least clamping force. Followed by the T90, the T1, and the the T5p. That's not to say the T5p is uncomfortable because it is very comfortable but because of its closed back nature it has more clamping force to provide isolation/prevent leakage. The T90 and the T1 are virtually identical in comfort but the T90 weighs slightly less so I'd give it the edge there. Certainly all of them are more comfortable than my Audeze LCDs and I don't even consider those to be uncomfortable.

I recommend you try them all out or buy them all and then return the ones you don't like if your store allows it. Good luck.

 

[thatonenoob]

  hi guys 
 
i wanted to upgrade my headphone and go for better headphone , i currently own a Denon d2000
i mostly listen to pop , trance , hip hop , and rock ( mostly all the genres except classic and jazz )
 
can anyone say which one is better for me ? i want to use it at home and i have a FiiO E10 Amp/Dac
and COMFORT is really important to me and im not a bass head but i just want them to sound good at every genre including Hip hop 
 
these are the headphones available where i live :
 
T5p 2nd gen , HD650 , T1 , T70 , T90 , VB630 , HD700 , audeze EL8(close and open)
 
what should i do ?
you think T5p 2nd gen is good for the genres i listen to ? and comfortable ?
and i have to say again that comfort is really important for me

 
T5p 2nd gen is a winner, and from what I heard back a while ago at Canjam it was indeed extremely pleasing.  Now this is my personal opinion, but the T1 will make the T90 and T70 fairly irrelevant.  Both the T90 and T70 are somewhat oddly tuned and unless you have a penchant for the Beyer sound being pushed to the limits I would say that you may wish to steer clear unless you can audition it before purchase.  HD700 is different.  Not bad, but the treble is a bit problematic at times.  The EL8 series did not impress me particularly when it was first released.  I don't keep tabs on the Audeze revisions so do take my statement as being possibly outdated.  HD650 is warmer and smoother and very much different from the other options presented.  Perhaps a fostex would be good?  I'm not sure about its availability in you area though.

 

[Swolenasty]

The T1 and the T90 are both good jack of all trades due to their speed. If you are someone who is overly sensitive to treble then go with the new T1. Most people on headfi seem to prefer a warmer sound signature but don't discount the T90 as irrelevant. That's like saying because the DT 880 exists the 990 is irrelevant. They are just two different sound signatures.

 

[thatonenoob]

The T1 and the T90 are both good jack of all trades due to their speed. If you are someone who is overly sensitive to treble then go with the new T1. Most people on headfi seem to prefer a warmer sound signature but don't discount the T90 as irrelevant. That's like saying because the DT 880 exists the 990 is irrelevant. They are just two different sound signatures.

The T1 is fairly versatile I do agree.  I think we had a conversation about this on one of the T1 threads not too long ago in fact.  Now my goal is not to be contrary, but I do think it is important to point out that the T70/ T90 are not commonly preferred signatures.  Yes, it is possible to enjoy these cans, and more power to those who do.  There are a good number of people who would agree that these two cans are rather bright, especially for the T70 which has a treble that does get out of hand at times. Based on technical performance, the T1 does handily outdo both of these two cans.  I think for overall sound signature balance, the T1 also does a better job in most scenarios.  
 
Perhaps irrelevant is a harsh word.  I know there are T90 enthusiasts out there, and their preferences cannot be disregarded.  But I do think that for a larger majority of us, the T1 will probably improve on the T90 in a manner that would be regarded as positive.  Just as you pointed out that the EL-8 closed was an "abomination" and that the T70 was only good as at classical since it was a treble "cannon", I believe that it wouldn't be a gross generalization to state that the T1 will in a good number of cases outperform the T70/T90.   
 
Just my 2c. 
 
EDIT: The treble sensitive may not want to head into T1 territory at all.

 

[Swolenasty]

The T1 is the flagship model and costs quite a bit more. I am just trying to give a full perspective since the OP didn't specify his preferences. He might be one of those who enjoys the bright sound signature so it wouldn't be fair to cross the T90 out. Ultimately, I did go with the T1 myself since I found its sound more to my liking. I am not too sensitive too treble so I found the T90 a worthwhile HP for the right person and definitely deserving of a spot in the Beyer line up.

 

[OmidelF]

I would say the 650 and the T90 for rock. 650 if you're into the dark, slow, laid back presentation with a nice bass kick and T90 if you're into the bright, zingy, full of energy presentation. 650 is more intimate with a smaller soundstage and T90 has a huge soundstage like you're at a rock concert. Both of these headphones are great for pop too but the T90 is better because the extra brightness helps give pop that energetic vibe. I think that hip hop sounds better on the 650 but the T90 is no slouch either but since it is a bright, revealing HP and a lot of hip hop songs are poorly mastered, the T90 will be very revealing of that. For trance, I'd give definite edge to the T90 although what really sounds great for trance is the T1 Gen 1. I really enjoy Infected Mushroom on the T1. I haven't heard the T5p but I expect it to sound similar to the T1 in that respect. Overall the T90 and the T1 Gen 1 are quite similar. The T90 has slightly more bass and is a good bit brighter with a greater sound stage because it is a fully open head phone. The T1 Gen 2 I haven't heard but from what I know it has more bass or similar bass to the T90 and is much less bright. What I heard from others who listen to trance is that the Gen 1 is better than the Gen 2 for trance. As for the other head phones you listed, I would not recommend the T70, HD 700, or the EL-8. The T70 is a treble cannon with almost no bass, pretty much good for just classical music. The HD700 has more bass than the T70 but still suffers from being overly bright, again pretty much just for classical/orchestral music. I haven't heard the El-8 but from what I have read online, the closed version is an abomination and the open is just all right. Don't know much about VB630 so can't comment on that one.

So your options are:
Sound isolation/Portability: T5p
Bright/Analytical: T1, T90
Dark/Melodic: HD 650

Some things to note is that the T5p and to a lesser extent the T90 don't require much if any amping. You can plug the T5p into your cell phone and you're good to go. T90 will require some extra juice but many portable amps will run it just fine. The T1 sounds significantly better with an amp and is a little picky in that respect, though I expect that to be less true for the Gen 2. The 650 is very amp dependent. The sky is the limit with the 650 or should I say your wallet is. The better your amp, the more performance you can squeeze out of the 650. Without an amp don't bother with the 650 as it sounds terrible.

All these headphones are very comfortable. The 650 is probably the most comfortable out of them because it has the least clamping force. Followed by the T90, the T1, and the the T5p. That's not to say the T5p is uncomfortable because it is very comfortable but because of its closed back nature it has more clamping force to provide isolation/prevent leakage. The T90 and the T1 are virtually identical in comfort but the T90 weighs slightly less so I'd give it the edge there. Certainly all of them are more comfortable than my Audeze LCDs and I don't even consider those to be uncomfortable.

I recommend you try them all out or buy them all and then return the ones you don't like if your store allows it. Good luck.

thanks guys for taking the time to respond
 
so overall , if say my main genre is hip hop and trap and rap , and i just want the perfect and the most comfortable headphone for these genres , which one of them would you suggest ?
t5p 2nd gen, t1 2nd gen and first gen, t90 , hd650
also i have to say that i dont want that big or boomy bass , so im not looking for some headphone like beats that just gives extra bass , i just want the perfect headphone for the hip hop and trap , i really dont care that it has that big amount of bass , just the right amount 
 
which one should i go for guys ?
 
also i have FiiO E10 amp and i dont have extra cash for another amp , so for example if you say HD650 is the right choice right now , can my amp drive it ?

 

[Swolenasty]

thanks guys for taking the time to respond

so overall , if say my main genre is hip hop and trap and rap , and i just want the perfect and the most comfortable headphone for these genres , which one of them would you suggest ?
t5p 2nd gen, t1 2nd gen and first gen, t90 , hd650
also i have to say that i dont want that big or boomy bass , so im not looking for some headphone like beats that just gives extra bass , i just want the perfect headphone for the hip hop and trap , i really dont care that it has that big amount of bass , just the right amount 

which one should i go for guys ?

also i have FiiO E10 amp and i dont have extra cash for another amp , so for example if you say HD650 is the right choice right now , can my amp drive it ?

.

With your amp I would go for the T5p over the T1 Gen 2. I have heard some very good things about the new T5. If you want to save money consider T90 or T1 Gen 1. I wouldn't go for the 650 with your amp selection as you won't be wowd by it.

 

[OmidelF]

.

With your amp I would go for the T5p over the T1 Gen 2. I have heard some very good things about the new T5. If you want to save money consider T90 or T1 Gen 1. I wouldn't go for the 650 with your amp selection as you won't be wowd by it.

 
 and if you heard about denon d2000 , would this be a good upgrade for me ? since i already have d2000
 
 
 
 
 
also people who have t5p it would be very helpful to me if you comment on how these sound on rap and trap music , and how comfortable are they for long usage
and are they even good for home usage ? considering these are made for portable usage and i only want  to listen to them at home , so isnt an open headphone better for home usage ? 

 

[TimeLord]

 and if you heard about denon d2000 , would this be a good upgrade for me ? since i already have d2000





also people who have t5p it would be very helpful to me if you comment on how these sound on rap and trap music , and how comfortable are they for long usage
and are they even good for home usage ? considering these are made for portable usage and i only want  to listen to them at home , so isnt an open headphone better for home usage ? 

For the style of music you're listening to, the only Beyer headphone that I'd recommend is the T1, either generation. The others, including the HD650 simply don't produce bass in your preferred genre. The 650 does well in reproducing bass for instruments like guitars and cello, but it does a poor job for rap and EDM.

The issue I have with the T1 first gen is that the highs can be really harsh and uncontrolled. Additional issue for your circumstance, they require a good amp with enough power to drive the 600 Ohm load.

I would tell you to get the Audeze EL-8 Titanium which comes with the amplifier built into the cable. It will sound great for rap. The downside of the EL-8 is a bit of a recessed mids that causes a somewhat V shaped sound. That shouldn't be an issue for rap. BTW, I'm speaking of the EL-8 closed version.

 

[thatonenoob]

For the style of music you're listening to, the only Beyer headphone that I'd recommend is the T1, either generation. The others, including the HD650 simply don't produce bass in your preferred genre. The 650 does well in reproducing bass for instruments like guitars and cello, but it does a poor job for rap and EDM.

The issue I have with the T1 first gen is that the highs can be really harsh and uncontrolled. Additional issue for your circumstance, they require a good amp with enough power to drive the 600 Ohm load.

I would tell you to get the Audeze EL-8 Titanium which comes with the amplifier built into the cable. It will sound great for rap. The downside of the EL-8 is a bit of a recessed mids that causes a somewhat V shaped sound. That shouldn't be an issue for rap. BTW, I'm speaking of the EL-8 closed version.

 
T1 Gen1  you've got to see the serial number for the "uncontrolled" highs.  Here's a summary from a post long ago.
 
0 to 3000-4000: The original "T1" sound.  Compared to my late run T1, I have to say it sounds thinner, and the highs definitely more pronounced.  Take note that I had the opportunity to audition these various times, but only in a public setting.  I can't quite imagine how it would sound in quiet setting.  May be even more intense than before.  However, it is easy to see why some would favor these.  Also faced with some interesting manufacturing issues -driver matching, etc.
 
The "major" retune happened around here.  
 
10000: Part-Time audiophile reported flabby bass in a unit tested here.  This would correspond with complaints of T1 bass being uncontrolled at times.  There are definitely a couple of those going around.
 
A minor retune happened around here.  
 
20000: Coming close to the final T1.1 sound.  It's a refined headphone at this point, and there is really no "shrillness" to the highs (though slight sibilance does come around at times).  It has the so-called "traditional" hi-fi sound (I use this term lazily) and is very, very listenable.  I would think that had this been the sound at release, the T1 wouldn't quite have gotten its bad press.
 
21321: w00t
 
23000: Gen 2 baffles started being introduced into the T1.  Drivers supposedly the same.  I find this interesting as it would indicate that there was some hesitation as to whether the T1.2 should've been a new standalone product. Perhaps the T1.2 was a reactionary move to the HD800s but this is pure speculation. 
 
Along the way, physical changes etc. were reported.  Part of why it is also difficult to pin all this down, is the unit-to-unit QC problems that have been reported here and there.  Throw these two into the mix and it's really hard to find a "definitive" T1.

 

[TimeLord]

T1 Gen1  you've got to see the serial number for the "uncontrolled" highs.  Here's a summary from a post long ago.

0 to 3000-4000: The original "T1" sound.  Compared to my late run T1, I have to say it sounds thinner, and the highs definitely more pronounced.  Take note that I had the opportunity to audition these various times, but only in a public setting.  I can't quite imagine how it would sound in quiet setting.  May be even more intense than before.  However, it is easy to see why some would favor these.  Also faced with some interesting manufacturing issues -driver matching, etc.

The "major" retune happened around here.  

10000: Part-Time audiophile reported flabby bass in a unit tested here.  This would correspond with complaints of T1 bass being uncontrolled at times.  There are definitely a couple of those going around.

A minor retune happened around here.  

20000: Coming close to the final T1.1 sound.  It's a refined headphone at this point, and there is really no "shrillness" to the highs (though slight sibilance does come around at times).  It has the so-called "traditional" hi-fi sound (I use this term lazily) and is very, very listenable.  I would think that had this been the sound at release, the T1 wouldn't quite have gotten its bad press.

21321: w00t

23000: Gen 2 baffles started being introduced into the T1.  Drivers supposedly the same.  I find this interesting as it would indicate that there was some hesitation as to whether the T1.2 should've been a new standalone product. Perhaps the T1.2 was a reactionary move to the HD800s but this is pure speculation. 

Along the way, physical changes etc. were reported.  Part of why it is also difficult to pin all this down, is the unit-to-unit QC problems that have been reported here and there.  Throw these two into the mix and it's really hard to find a "definitive" T1.

I'll look up the serial number on mine to see where it falls in your timeline, but I have tried hard to control the sibilance and peaky highs on my T1.

Initially, I placed felt dampeners in front of the drivers. By the time I had placed enough to suppress the sibilance, it had also had a negative impact across the frequency spectrum.

I more or less ignored the T1 for a few months while I was working on understanding the HD800.

After some experimentation with different tubes in the Woo Audio WA7 in an effort to subdue the highs on the HD800, I tried the WA7 on the T1. That did a lot to make the T1 a better headphone. Suffice it to say, that significant effort must be expended in pairing a DAC and amp to the T1, to get good results. Even now, I would not call my setup ideal for the T1.

I prefer my T5p to my T1 in general, but for rap, the lack of bass in the T5p will be very disappointing. If limited to the Beyer line up, for rap, I would use the T1.

 

[TexasBuck]

I prefer my T5p to my T1 in general, but for rap, the lack of bass in the T5p will be very disappointing. If limited to the Beyer line up, for rap, I would use the T1.

Interesting.  I have the T1.1 (serial #9069) and the bass is very dependent on the recording.  Overall, I think they are a touch light on bass.  Agree with you on the highs being harsh on certain recordings.  The T5P.2 have more bass quantity to my ears, particularly mid-bass.  Never harsh on the treble.  I really wouldn't say one is better than the other, but if I could just have one, I'd give the edge to the T5P.2, because it's easier to drive and being closed, gives improved isolation.

 

[OmidelF]

so based on what i read here , t5p has poor quality for rap music and hip hop then right ? 
 
so i should go for t1 ? doesnt t90 have more bass with trance and hip hop music ?
 
what should i do guys , just go for t1 ? not the t5p 2nd gen ? i really thought t5p 2nd gen was very good for hip hop and i remember hearing t1 once but i didnt like the bass of that either 

 

[TimeLord]

so based on what i read here , t5p has poor quality for rap music and hip hop then right ? 

so i should go for t1 ? doesnt t90 have more bass with trance and hip hop music ?

what should i do guys , just go for t1 ? not the t5p 2nd gen ? i really thought t5p 2nd gen was very good for hip hop and i remember hearing t1 once but i didnt like the bass of that either 

My recommendation is to get the EL-8 closed (Titanium version if you have an iPhone or iPod). If you're dead set on getting a Beyer, then I'd go with the T1; just heed the caveats mentioned above.

 

[OmidelF]

do you have EL8 yourself ? if so do you like the comfort ? because i heard they are quite heavy
also how do they sound on hip hop music ? can you compare it to open version ?
 
 
and overall the open back headphones are more comfy for long usage right ? if so why not just get the open version of EL8 ? i mean do they sound that bad in hip hop compared to closed ?