New Beyerdynamic T1 (2nd Generation)
Dec 4, 2015 at 4:55 PM Post #826 of 3,924
If there are any metal parts on the speaker or the baffle plate that are not part of the audio circuit, it is a good idea to ground them to reduce RFI pickup.

I don't want to go on and on about this, but there are two poles on a speaker, let's say + and - . The minus will go to the ground anyway. So, why not short the metal parts that are not on the audio circuit with the - and spare one cable? They will be shorted in the jack anyway. That way the metal parts will be connected to the shield and will be grounded as well just as it is the case in the current setup. Why do we need three instead of two? It doesn't make any sense electrically unless it has a function in the balanced setup.  (Don't get me wrong I'm just trying to understand the difference.)
 
Dec 4, 2015 at 5:55 PM Post #827 of 3,924
I don't want to go on and on about this, but there are two poles on a speaker, let's say + and - . The minus will go to the ground anyway. So, why not short the metal parts that are not on the audio circuit with the - and spare one cable? They will be shorted in the jack anyway. That way the metal parts will be connected to the shield and will be grounded as well just as it is the case in the current setup. Why do we need three instead of two? It doesn't make any sense electrically unless it has a function in the balanced setup.  (Don't get me wrong I'm just trying to understand the difference.)


In a balanced setup the minus signal is not ground.
 
Dec 4, 2015 at 6:05 PM Post #828 of 3,924
If there are any metal parts on the speaker or the baffle plate that are not part of the audio circuit, it is a good idea to ground them to reduce RFI pickup.

I don't want to go on and on about this, but there are two poles on a speaker, let's say + and - . The minus will go to the ground anyway. So, why not short the metal parts that are not on the audio circuit with the - and spare one cable? They will be shorted in the jack anyway. That way the metal parts will be connected to the shield and will be grounded as well just as it is the case in the current setup. Why do we need three instead of two? It doesn't make any sense electrically unless it has a function in the balanced setup.  (Don't get me wrong I'm just trying to understand the difference.)


You don't want to go on but you will anyway :D

In cheap headsets, it is exactly as you describe. One ground (which is also the shield if there is one), one left + and one right +. All metal parts are hopefully grounded.

In better headsets, like the T1, you have ground (the shields, for there are two) , left +, left -, right + and right -.

What, you say, is the benefit of this?

Remember that the same current is flowing in both sides of the circuit. Remember also that all currents have associated electromagnetic fields. These fields do not respect dielectrics to any great degree and therefore
interact with each other.

When both speakers share a common ground wire all the way to the headset, the left and right currents are comingled in the same wire and separation is reduced. Having separate + and - wires for each channel and shielded from each other by a grounded screen increases separation and subjectively improves soundstaging.

The speaker in a headphone converts electrical signals to movement. It also equally well converts movement into electrical signals. The moving parts of a speaker don't start and stop exactly as the signal requires. The better the speaker, the closer the correlation but there is always some back generation as the speaker oscillates to a standstill. This unwanted generation is damped by the output impedance of the amplifier. The lower the output impedance of the amp, the greater the back generated current and the faster the unwanted energy is dissipated from the speaker.

This back generated current can also cross-contaminate between the two channels. Having four wires all the way back to the plug dramatically reduces this contamination.

In a balanced setup, there is no common ground at all in the left and right audio circuits so separation is maximised and interference between channels is minimised.

The other big advantage of a balanced setup is that the two wires carry a mirror image of the signal but 180 degrees out of phase with each other. Any interference which manages to penetrate the cables will be in phase on both + and - wires and will thus present as zero volts across the driver. This is why balanced connections were invented - so that signals could be sent over long distances while being immune to interference.

I hope that's right. If not I blame alcoholic intoxication (well it is Friday night, hic!)

:cool:
 
Dec 4, 2015 at 7:39 PM Post #830 of 3,924
You don't want to go on but you will anyway
biggrin.gif

 

Don't assume 
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  Thanks for the detailed explanation. In a balanced setup such as below, it all makes sense why T1 is designed like that.
If you are not using a balanced setup, it is as good as bi-wiring. (Let's leave is at that. And yeah, Friday night.  
beerchug.gif
 ) 
 

 
Dec 4, 2015 at 9:12 PM Post #831 of 3,924
  Does the T1 2nd Gen has more bass impact compare to the old T1? Also compare to the new DT 1770 Pro?

Yes...but on your second question, I haven't heard the new 1770 Pro yet
 
Plus the bass is of better quality and tactility on the 2nd generation.
 
Dec 5, 2015 at 1:56 AM Post #832 of 3,924
Thanks for the detailed explanation. In a balanced setup such as below, it all makes sense why T1 is designed like that.

If you are not using a balanced setup, it is as good as bi-wiring. (Let's leave is at that. And yeah, Friday night.  :beerchug:  ) 


One more point is that in a two cores plus shield (per channel) setup, the wire in each core can be of much higher quality than the shield for less overall cost than if the shield were of similar quality. Pure monocrystal silver cores are not cheap but they are a lot cheaper than a pure monocrystal shield.
 
Dec 6, 2015 at 12:11 AM Post #834 of 3,924
Thanks for some great replies!

@ Knorris908 please let me know what you think of the new T1 and Ifi dsd micro combo. Feedback regarding if you think it is too "bright" would be very welcome. And also about what the ican brings to the mix would be very interesting.

Thanks again!


Okay a couple of things: the UPS site lied. Both headphones arrived Thursday. They have been burning in since. This evening my wife was in the rare mood to marathon song samples on each headphone. I blindfolded her with one of my old ties and blind A/B/C'd the HD-650 vs HD-800 vs T1 on the Schiit Audio ASGARD 2 first. Then she surprised me by volunteering to do another round on the iFi iDSD Micro with the iCAN.

2 things I didn't expect: 1 that she would be into it as much as she was. 2 that she would be brought to LITERAL tears when she listened to Lionel Ritchie's "Three Times A Lady" on the HD-800s.

Preliminary results are pretty-much what I'd feared they'd be - HD-800 tops on some songs, T1's were tops with just as many. Pretty much split down the middle.

Adele's "Hello" was a clear win for the T1's, as was Lionel Ritchie's "Endless Love". But Peter Gabriel's "Solsbury Hill" and "Games Without Frontiers" were the best on HD-800s.




More to come, but for now we're just being silly and passing headphones back and forth to each other and singing like idiots..
 
Dec 10, 2015 at 2:41 AM Post #835 of 3,924
Has anyone tried the T1 2nd Gen on Woo Audio WA2s ? I would love to get some feedback from people who have. Also if there are any T1 1st gen owners who have A B tested on the differences of the 1st gen and 2nd gen.
 
Dec 12, 2015 at 4:11 AM Post #836 of 3,924
 
  Quote:
   
So with the new pads on the T1.1 there'd be crappier bass quality, less monitoring (neutral/analytical?) sound, less forward mids AND less brightness?
 

 
More bass actually. With less forward mids came more depth but also slight hollow effect. The rest of changes is correct. 

 
Ok thanks. For the sake of experiment I just ordered a pair 2nd gen pads. I'm not entirely happy with the T1 even from tubes so curious what these will bring.

 
Pretty satisfying changes with the Gen2 pads on T1.1. Indeed a good bit more bass presence and more importantly, less brightness which is an issue to me at higher volume. Hi hats for example are way more natural now and not in your face. A thing that started to annoy me. There's a substantial trade off though because the strong suit transparency looses out. That's what I initially really dug about the T1.1. First impressions makes me think it's not to the point of having turned too warm but a (very) slight woolyness could be described.  
 
All in all, these Gen2 pads undoubtedly makes the T1.1 quite a different headphone in my opinion. Way more fun to listen to at higher volume and for a longer period of time. I must recommend to give them a shot.
 
Dec 12, 2015 at 3:57 PM Post #838 of 3,924
I wonder if it will be possible to replace the drivers on old T1's with the new ones. My right driver broke earlier this summer... which means a full driver set replacement anyway. Maybe I'll hold out for this new generation driver to hit the market before sending it in for repair. 
Well the gen.2 parts are already available for you to buy here yourself: http://www.beyerdynamic.de/shop/hah/spareparts.html?kopfhoerermodell=868

But, considering that the gen.1 parts still exist, if you send your T1 to Beyerdynamic to repair, they will likely use the gen.1 drivers instead: http://www.beyerdynamic.de/shop/hah/spareparts.html?kopfhoerermodell=596
 
Dec 15, 2015 at 12:02 AM Post #839 of 3,924
  Thanks for some great replies!
 
@ Knorris908 please let me know what you think of the new T1 and Ifi dsd micro combo. Feedback regarding if you think it is too "bright" would be very welcome. And also about what the ican brings to the mix would be very interesting.
 
Thanks again!

To answer your question directly:
 
After 100 hours of burn-in, NO.  My iFi iDSD Micro does not sound too bright on the T1 ver2. headphones OR on the HD800.  They don't sound quite as good as with the iCAN, but they are pretty close.  Larger difference between them when listening to the HD-800 though.  It seems that the T1 Takes just about any amp I have and sounds good.  Passable with the FIIO e17, better with the iDSD, slightly better with the iCAN, and just a little more "refined" with the ASGARD 2, but the GOOD quality tracks never get too "bright".  Now if you pull low quality streams, then it shows.  (Again, not as much as it does with the HD-800s, but you can definitely tell.)
 
Truth be told, I'm considering not keeping the HD-800s.  I'm not in the market for a $3-6K amp, and the ones I have don't make it sound appreciably better than the T1 ver2.  Perhaps if I had a Luxman or the like it would make a difference, but I'm REALLY happy with the T1 ver2 and the HD-650 as my "ahh" headphones, and my specialties like my AKG K550/K545 for "fun", and my modded JVC HA-SZ20000 for BASS SLAM pretty-much round-out everything I listen to.
 
OH!  If you get the chance.  Mario Lanza's "Oh Holy Night" is AMAZING on the T1s!!!  It's a fairly poor recording overall, so the HD-800s make you pay for it, but the T1s are absolutely angelic! You get all the power, detail, and even more "energy" than through the HD-800s, (One way the Suuuuuuper-wide soundstage can work against the HD-800s I'm finding.) but none of the harshness.
 
Oh, and Mahler's Finale 1 (DSD256 2 channel OR 5 channel)  Wow...
 
Dec 15, 2015 at 12:08 AM Post #840 of 3,924
 
Truth be told, I'm considering not keeping the HD-800s.  I'm not in the market for a $3-6K amp, and the ones I have don't make it sound appreciably better than the T1 ver2.  Perhaps if I had a Luxman or the like it would make a difference, but I'm REALLY happy with the T1 ver2 and the HD-650 as my "ahh" headphones, and my specialties like my AKG K550/K545 for "fun", and my modded JVC HA-SZ20000 for BASS SLAM pretty-much round-out everything I listen to.

Are your HD800 or HD650 modded? Makes a world of difference!
 

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