[ItsAllInMyHead]

Your post inspired me to swap the pins on my recently procured r8he and i went from latest firmware to old R8TDA_Asy.jic. got to say you are right. This fw is more natural and warmer than any of the latest ones those after pin swap and R8asy3. It has much more smooth and has more bass and less edges on tones although soundstage is smaller and more congested. It reminded me of my old dac19 in some way which i used to love. Thanks very much. I was always wondering why my dac sounds unlike any audiogd that i was used to. I was lazy enough to take off the cover and swap the pins and downgrade to pre r8asy3 firmwares but now i feel its worth for anyone who finds latest firmwares bright and edgy.

I am so glad that the effort paid off in a positive way. I often find that my tastes differ from others and/or that I often can't find too many commonalities with others. I'm a firm believer in that we all have our own ears, gear, and brains (and rooms). The only (very slight) difference in our experiences is that I actually get an expanded soundstage with the "older" firmware. That could be (and is likely) due to other effects. BTW - I should have clarified earlier if I already didn't that this is with a loudspeaker system. I find commonality in tone across both loudspeakers and HPs, but with HPs, I find it hard to discern things related to soundstage.

I try to avoid confirmation / expectation bias - but I'll ask a leading question and offer a statement either way. If you can recall - how do you find the overall "naturalness" of human voices and stringed instruments (particularly in complex pieces and/or heavy chords)? To me and my ears the "older" firmware shines in this regard (in my system). When you swapped over, did you find yourself enjoying vocals / choirs / harmonies and complex musical passages with strings a bit more?

Again, thrilled it worked out well for you.

Separate note - as is typical of Kingwa, when I shared my observations via e-mail, he was very quick to respond. Past experiences indicate that he'll be back to me soon enough with information and/or a few things for me to try. He strives for exceptional customer service. I suspect that he wants the pops to go away just as badly as I.

If I learn anything - I'll be sure to share here.

 

[Mix80]

D300REF with an R28 and it worked fine

May I ask?
Have you used the i2S interface?
Have you listened to DSD recordings?
What firmware was on the DAC?
Thanx!

 

[Currawong]

May I ask?
Have you used the i2S interface?
Have you listened to DSD recordings?
What firmware was on the DAC?
Thanx!

It was the original R28 with original firmware and I believe I performed one firmware update. While I don't recall specifically if I listened to DSD, it is probable that I did.

 

[peppyjoe]

I am so glad that the effort paid off in a positive way. I often find that my tastes differ from others and/or that I often can't find too many commonalities with others. I'm a firm believer in that we all have our own ears, gear, and brains (and rooms). The only (very slight) difference in our experiences is that I actually get an expanded soundstage with the "older" firmware. That could be (and is likely) due to other effects. BTW - I should have clarified earlier if I already didn't that this is with a loudspeaker system. I find commonality in tone across both loudspeakers and HPs, but with HPs, I find it hard to discern things related to soundstage.

I try to avoid confirmation / expectation bias - but I'll ask a leading question and offer a statement either way. If you can recall - how do you find the overall "naturalness" of human voices and stringed instruments (particularly in complex pieces and/or heavy chords)? To me and my ears the "older" firmware shines in this regard (in my system). When you swapped over, did you find yourself enjoying vocals / choirs / harmonies and complex musical passages with strings a bit more?

Again, thrilled it worked out well for you.

Separate note - as is typical of Kingwa, when I shared my observations via e-mail, he was very quick to respond. Past experiences indicate that he'll be back to me soon enough with information and/or a few things for me to try. He strives for exceptional customer service. I suspect that he wants the pops to go away just as badly as I.

If I learn anything - I'll be sure to share here.

What you shared is true for me as well. Mine is also a speaker system, i dont use headphones at all and i use master 1/master3 combination along with di20he. Latest firmwares ( i have tried all from r8asy3 afterwards and now i realise ) are sharp and edgy which leads to inpression that they are more detailed, maybe they could have better separation, also they have expanded soundstage both width and height wise for me, but if you ask tonality wise, these were not natural at all ( the way dac19 used to be or other audiogd pcm1704 dacs). I upgraded from dac 19 (which i used to love tonality wise especially for vocals and mids though it was very warm) to r8he thinking the soundsignature would remain same but for last 4-5 months, i was generally put off by the vocal performance and in midrange department. The decays in cymbals was never convincing and stringed instruments sounded thin and unnaturally cold. Vocals were sharp and more crisper than needed, mids were not lush. There was a certain tenseness in notes which seem to constrict the sound. Though i would say piano and bass was excellent. I always used to think that maybe my other system configuration is not upto mark and never thought of firmware until your post. But now after downgrading the fw, its all natural and more musical though details might have been sacrificed especially in bass region, but in mids and treble region the older firmware shines. Vocals are now smooth and spacious, cymbals shiny, and the warmth and smoothness in mids is now back which reminds me of dac19 though its now miles above in resolution and not that warm. Overall midrange is more dense and juicy now. Sorry i maynot be able to explain in technomusical terms but in short i find the sound to my taste now especially all the dryness and edginess is gone gow for the better. Music that i liked now sounds way better. I understand everyone will hear differently and look for different things in their music and all rooms are different for speaker only systems but for me naturalness in vocals and instruments is more important than bass and resolution, so i am liking what i am hearing now.

Most important difference that i found with old fw is that vocals and instruments are not edgy at all and have smoothness in ample quantity now. With newer firmwares sound is not smooth and also dynamically off the route. When instrument pitch increases or decreases suddenly in a passage, it sounded abrupt with new fws after pin swap but with old fw, its warm and naturally smooth that i like very much.

 

[guzz46]

You guys inspired me to try the older tda firmware again, and I have to admit there is something about tda_syn that just gels on my system, it may not have quite as much detail as the async and newer firmwares but it has an analog type quality that just makes you want to tap your foot to the music, its just much more enjoyable to listen to.

To avoid the static I'll just have to switch to input 5 then back to input 4 again, I only have to do it once everytime I turn it on, not a big deal really.

 

[Mix80]

To avoid the static I'll just have to switch to input 5 then back to input 4 again, I only have to do it once everytime I turn it on, not a big deal really.

As I understand it, you also have a problem with noise when you first turn on?

 

[ItsAllInMyHead]

You guys inspired me to try the older tda firmware again, and I have to admit there is something about tda_syn that just gels on my system, it may not have quite as much detail as the async and newer firmwares but it has an analog type quality that just makes you want to tap your foot to the music, its just much more enjoyable to listen to.

To avoid the static I'll just have to switch to input 5 then back to input 4 again, I only have to do it once everytime I turn it on, not a big deal really.

I never tried swapping the inputs back and forth. Great tip, thanks. I really enjoyed the V3_Syn with (I think) NOS 2. I may try TDA_Syn again to see if your trick works.

-cheers

 

[guzz46]

As I understand it, you also have a problem with noise when you first turn on?

Yes, but it disappears once I swap the inputs back and forth, now I do it after I turn it on before I even start playing anything.

 

[Mix80]

Wow...
This is very interesting!
May I ask?
What signal source do you use, and through what interface do you connect it to your DAC?
I understand correctly that you have an Audio-GD R8 DAC?

There is a possibility that there is a General problem that is not related to a specific device as a signal source or even to the I2S or USB interface, but is related to the logic of the DAC that receives the signal, which does not always correctly determine the necessary frequency of the incoming signal and selects the wrong reference frequency of the internal clock generator.
This is just a guess, I do not insist on this version, just talk and ask those who have encountered similar behavior of Audio-GD devices to share it.

 

[guzz46]

Wow...
This is very interesting!
May I ask?
What signal source do you use, and through what interface do you connect it to your DAC?
I understand correctly that you have an Audio-GD R8 DAC?

There is a possibility that there is a General problem that is not related to a specific device as a signal source or even to the I2S or USB interface, but is related to the logic of the DAC that receives the signal, which does not always correctly determine the necessary frequency of the incoming signal and selects the wrong reference frequency of the internal clock generator.
This is just a guess, I do not insist on this version, just talk and ask those who have encountered similar behavior of Audio-GD devices to share it.

I use this https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/netw....html?search_query=audio-gd ra&fast_search=fs
Which is a raspberry pi with a kali reclocker attached, the kali relocker reclocks the i2s signal from the pi and sends it to the R8 via i2s, I never experienced the problem when I was using USB from my PC into the R8, so I think its only related to the i2s input.
Its kind of strange that the problem goes away after switching inputs even before any signal is sent to the R8, but maybe there is some sort of signal being sent over i2s even when nothing is being played, I don't know.

 

[Mix80]

Thank you for your answer.
Unfortunately, in order to understand the cause of problems with the I2S signal source, I need quite expensive equipment that will allow me to take readings on 3 data channels with a high enough accuracy.



Mr. Kingwa refers to the fact that mixing the front of one data channel relative to another can cause a loss of synchronization between devices. And on the latest firmware, it just increased the requirements for the accuracy of incoming data.
While we don't have an output diagram for the i2S interface in our devices, we can only believe his assumptions, but soon I expect to get a diagram from my D300Ref, as well as get a reference diagram from the manufacturer D300Ref for comparison.
I wonder if it is possible to fix such problems at the firmware level of the signal source, or is it purely a hardware incompatibility?

 

[guzz46]

Thank you for your answer.
Unfortunately, in order to understand the cause of problems with the I2S signal source, I need quite expensive equipment that will allow me to take readings on 3 data channels with a high enough accuracy.



Mr. Kingwa refers to the fact that mixing the front of one data channel relative to another can cause a loss of synchronization between devices. And on the latest firmware, it just increased the requirements for the accuracy of incoming data.
While we don't have an output diagram for the i2S interface in our devices, we can only believe his assumptions, but soon I expect to get a diagram from my D300Ref, as well as get a reference diagram from the manufacturer D300Ref for comparison.
I wonder if it is possible to fix such problems at the firmware level of the signal source, or is it purely a hardware incompatibility?

That's strange that the newer firmwares increase the accuracy requirements because I never experienced the problem on the newer firmwares, only on the tda firmwares, at least switching inputs is an easy work around.

 

[DACLadder]

External 10M clocking with R7 2020..? I am having excellent results with external clocking on the DI20HE connected I2S to the prior R7 model. Just wondering if anyone can report about external clocking the R7 2020 and differences experienced with internal XOs.

I have learned a lot about 10M clocking in the past few months. Everything involved with 10M affects sound - clock type, power supplies, cables... Extremely critical. Square wave 10M clock signalling seems much better than sine wave clocks. Kingwa seems to think square waves are better with AGD equipment. Currently using an Ebay GPSDO clock with Trimble OCXO inside. Has one sine wave and two square wave outputs.

Anyway, wondering how the R7 2020 compares internal/ external clocking??

 

[Chopin75]

I have been using the latest FW - parrallel DSDclk. and it appears the pops are coming back when switching albums/tracks for DSD. It was not there with the old TDA, at least when using native DSD. Anyone has this issue ?

 

[DACLadder]

It looks like Kingwa published firmware for the following... @Chopin75 I haven't noticed anything different lately but infrequently listen to DSD files. I have been using standard R7 'DoP' firmware from October 2019.


- R7/ R7HE 2020 (October 2019), R28 (new March 2020 version)
- (before 2017,Non Singularity DACs) Master 7 and HE7, Reference 7, Reference 5, DAC19 at the very bottom of the page. 'V5' was the orginal firmware and 'V7' the 2016 update

http://www.audio-gd.com/Firmwaredownload.htm