[Pappas3278]

@Pappas3278 Just describing the USB I2S process is synchronous with the FPGA clocks. The internal USB board no longer has its own XOs driving I2S outputs. The I2S clocks are now supplied by the 2021 DAC FPGA. The sonic benefit is no PLL or data recovery needed as with async I2S. USB data path is now much less complicated. That is the theory - simpler path.

Also the USB and HDMI I2S adapters each employ galvanic isolators on their I2S outputs. The isolation method is bi-dir allowing I2S output to the FPGA and the new I2S clock input from the FPGA (usb only).

Thanks for explanation DL. With all that said, would someone like myself benefit from the 2021 upgrades if I was feeding my DI-20 with a signal via USB and connected to my R-x via I2S? In theory even?

 

[FredA]

"USB apply the bidirectional isolator that can transmit the IIS signal to the FPGA processor and receive the clock signal from the FPGA processor, the USB interface without on board data clocks, the signal transmit is much exact, the sound quality get the much improve , similar to the last generative R-x combine with DI-20 (But not DI-20HE) level. (New Feature)"

So, what does this really mean in layman's terms? If we already have our R-x DAC paired with the DI-20, can we expect an upgrade?

It means the new usb input will likely sound better than the di20 through i2s. If your have a di20he and if your add the new i2s input (with isolator), this combination will beat the new usb input.

 

[JaMo]

"USB apply the bidirectional isolator that can transmit the IIS signal to the FPGA processor and receive the clock signal from the FPGA processor, the USB interface without on board data clocks, the signal transmit is much exact, the sound quality get the much improve , similar to the last generative R-x combine with DI-20 (But not DI-20HE) level. (New Feature)"

So, what does this really mean in layman's terms? If we already have our R-x DAC paired with the DI-20, can we expect an upgrade?

I have the new configuration R7HE and can asure You it is a stellar dac. The Amanero is far better performing than in earlier implementation. But the answer to Your question lay in point 1 and 3, I think.

1, USB and HDMI apply the separate isolators and isolate pure class A PSUs for avoid the interrupt from computer and HDMI sources. (New Feature)
2, USB apply the bidirectional isolator....
3, HDMI input apply isolator for improve the sound quality . (New Feature)

Kingwa himself sais that the Amanero now sounds better than the R7HE+ DI20 but not better than the R7HE+ DI20HE. I agree on the latter, especially with a good masterclock connected to both the dac and the DI.

The R7HE dacs has been the stellar level for some time now and I think You should see this as another step to higher grounds in the "never ending evolution" from Kingwa.
How much upgrade this iteration is, I don't know but Kingwa never releases if it not performs better than the predecessor. Please have in mind that these gears already are performing on a very high level and steps further are not expected to be huge. It is more of refinements, I think.

Well, for me the hunt is over and I have found "peace" performancevise. The sound I now finally have in my rig is as good as I ever wanted.
/Jan

 

[sajunky]

I'd like to add that it is a significant upgrade for R-1, R-8, R-8HE, R-27, and R-28 models, no matter whether you have DI20 or not (non-HE version).

As this feature was introduced first in DI-20, I suggest to check DI-20 thread, as now it is very important to configure your system for asynchronous transfer. By example Windows WASAPI push output which is default in Roon and other applications do not bring any benefits. Always use WASAPI event driven mode (easy to set in Foobar).

 

[rsbrsvp]

From what is clearly showing at the audio-gd website, the R-7HE cannot have these 2021 upgrades done by ourselves.

 

[sajunky]

From what is clearly showing at the audio-gd website, the R-7HE cannot have these 2021 upgrades done by ourselves.

It is because 2020 version of R7 and R7HE is already upgraded, but Kingwa didn't tell you. (???) Look at these items:

32bit / 384K Asynchronous Transfer Amanero Combo 384 with USB isolator and separate PSU power supply

and

3, Full new configuration clock manage design built in, improved on the clock timing.
4, DSD asynchronous clock technology has apply that improves the sound quality obviously.

Clock upgrade for the Amanero module is also not available. Why? Because is not used anymore.

The only unclear is whether HDMI is isolated, but for me it is obvious. USB galvanic isolation is placed on the I2S wires, the only difference is that external HDMI/I2S port do not require bidirectional clock. HDMI inputs can be easily switched with a single multipole relay.

 

[rsbrsvp]

HDMI input apply isolator for improve the sound quality . (New Feature)
______________________________________________________________

Doesn't "new feature" mean it is not in the 2020 model?

I want the HDMI improvements as I have a DI-20HE.... and the USB improvement is a non issue for me.

 

[sajunky]

HDMI input apply isolator for improve the sound quality . (New Feature)
______________________________________________________________

Doesn't "new feature" mean it is not in the 2020 model?

I want the HDMI improvements as I have a DI-20HE.... and the USB improvement is a non issue for me.

It also says in description of R7 2021 model that USB isolation is a new feature, which is not true, as I pointed in my previous post. There must be some improvements, but a text seems to be copy-pasted from other designs. Good occasion to ask Kingwa when ordering.

 

[rsbrsvp]

Got it.....

 

[DACLadder]

Looking at the R7 2020 vs. 2021, the 2020 I2S isolation was standard on internal USB and not available on HDMI I2S. So the 2021 adds HDMI I2S isolation plus synchronous USB operation.

The method for USB isolation may be different in 2021(bi-dir) vs. 2020 (?). The 2020 R7 description only states...”32bit / 384K Asynchronous Transfer Amanero Combo 384 with USB isolator and separate PSU power supply”.

 

[rsbrsvp]

Kingwa told me that the usb input in the DI is the same as the 2021 new models.

HDMI must be improved as Kingwa is selling me a new board knowing I have a R-7HE 2020. I understand it needs soldering in two places so I will need to take it to my technician.

 

[sajunky]

Looking at the R7 2020 vs. 2021, the 2020 I2S isolation was standard on internal USB and not available on HDMI I2S. So the 2021 adds HDMI I2S isolation plus synchronous USB operation.

The method for USB isolation may be different in 2021(bi-dir) vs. 2020 (?). The 2020 R7 description only states...”32bit / 384K Asynchronous Transfer Amanero Combo 384 with USB isolator and separate PSU power supply”.

Thanks.

It says "Asynchronous Transfer Amanero", which means that FPGA clock if fed back to the Amanero, so there is no requirement for reclocking in FPGA. Here is more in support of this scenario:

3, Full new configuration clock manage design built in, improved on the clock timing.

 

[sajunky]

Kingwa told me that the usb input in the DI is the same as the 2021 new models.

HDMI must be improved as Kingwa is selling me a new board knowing I have a R-7HE 2020. I understand it needs soldering in two places so I will need to take it to my technician.

I was wrong to the HDMI, but this is great news. All essential upgrades are already present in 2020 R-7 and HE models.

Guys, Lads. Check your USB configuration for USB asynchronous transfer. Very important!!!

 

[rsbrsvp]

One thing doesn't make sense to me:

If the DI has the 2021 usb module then why does the R-7HE 2021 sound better with direct usb conection than using the DI-20?

The only answer I can think of is that the DI-20 non HE model pollutes the sound more than the advantage that I2s via the DI-20 provides and results in a net loss.

 

[DACLadder]

I was just typing the same question... If the DI design already has the same synchronous USB scheme as 2021 R7HE DAC.... then why does DI-20HE over HDMI I2S sound better than the internal synchronous USB? The DI-20HE adds LVDS encoding/ decoding, isolation, plus an additional cable. HDMI I2S runs asynchronously and there are also extra AC power supply/ground and clock domains in the DI.

Just seems 2021 internal USB is the cleaner/ less complicated path by a significant margin.