New Audeze LCD3
Jun 13, 2012 at 5:07 PM Post #5,986 of 11,521
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yeah I know I know, everyone here agrees to disagree, but most people on this thread hold a high regard for the balancing act for lcd3 but what about the super 7? is the super 7 similar in sound signature to the BA?


Depends on what tubes you roll. Considering that the S7 has endless possibilities because you can mix and match relatively cheap tubes, it would probably be possible to get a sound signature to a BA running X and Y tubes. I would probably load them up the S7 with Sylvania chrome domes with the LCD3. Other amps (some are DIY, but you may be able to find used) I've I owned or heard with LCD3 between $750-$2500 which should be considered a good match:
 
  • HeadAmp GSX
  • Apex Peak
  • Schiit Mjolnir
  • Cavalli EHHA
  • Dynahi
 
The LCD3 already has some good bass quantity and a creamy sound, so some amps I would otherwise mention have been left off the list.
 
Jun 13, 2012 at 5:35 PM Post #5,988 of 11,521
The only way to hate the BA, S7, ZD, ZDT is to hate music.  FR is never out of whack, transparency is never compromised, nothing ever hurts or brings pain to the ears.  You can love them or like them but hate is unfathomable unless its something unrelated to the playback of music.
 
I do think the S7 is a steal, err deal compared to the BA which is why I got one.  It also has 3x's the power.  I think a more open phone w/ a wide SS takes best advantage of the BA.  Something like an LCD2 will lose out on most of the BA's advantage over the S7 due to it's more compressed sound.  LCD3 is relative to the person and phones in question.
 
Jun 13, 2012 at 5:45 PM Post #5,989 of 11,521
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Even the BA, like the ZD before it has those that love it, like it, meh it, ugh it and hate it.

 
Quote:
"ugh it and hate it."
 
I've seen the first three reactions, never the last two though, whether in person or on the forums.  I guess it's possible, I've just never experienced it and don't know anyone who has.
 
Some seem to prefer solid state amps such as the B22 and the GS-X to tube amps such as the BA for the LCD's though.

 
 
Quote:
I have no idea, but there actually does seem to be some consensus on the Balancing Act, by all most accounts it's one of the very best.

 
Fixed
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Jun 13, 2012 at 6:06 PM Post #5,990 of 11,521
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The only way to hate the BA, S7, ZD, ZDT is to hate music. 

 
Depends on your preference for house sound.  Those that don't care for Eddie Current amps tend to think they are top tilted and slightly grainy. Same has been said of Apex.  If you prefer a weighty sound like the Woo or AMB offerings... then the BA/ZD is simply meh.  I've always wanted to listen to an EC in house but haven't.  If I did, it would probably be the 2A3 since the BA is mega $$$ and the S7 design just doesn't do it for me.
 
Anyone know if the S7 is a single triode input running 6 triode outputs or single triode to two triodes to four triode outputs?
 
Jun 13, 2012 at 6:30 PM Post #5,991 of 11,521
Meh isn't hate and I'd consider Apex more in line w/ what you describe than EC.  EC is a lot more responsive to tube changes than what I've heard w/ the Apex stuff.  They seem borderline SS devices to me.  Not sure if I'd call Woo stuff weightier or actually softer.  It's possible too that sometimes when people upgrade they often unmask more unpleasant bits of their chain they previously weren't aware of.  A lot of grain can be from the new production tubes he uses stock or for demos on occasion.    You might be describing bite not grain?  Some of the bite you mention is largely part of the Electraprint transformer sig which is one reason I presume Donald uses Edcors in his amps.  The current run of S7's will be completely bite free due to new transformers as of two days ago.  
wink_face.gif

 
1 in/6 out.
 
Edit - I see you haven't heard any these yourself so nvm....
rolleyes.gif

 
Jun 13, 2012 at 7:04 PM Post #5,992 of 11,521
I will reiterate, its based on what I've read here and in reviews.  Its not personal opinion.  I would have liked it if the S7 was a pre/amp not speaker/amp and given the price of 6SN7 tubes... not sure why it was chosen for a "budget" amp.  The lightning bolt S needs to go too.  Nit picking I'd also think it would look nicer if it was wider and shorter but it might be because of the height of the transformers.  Last part might be a photo trick since the dimensions don't click for a squared front v rectangle.
 
Jun 13, 2012 at 9:35 PM Post #5,993 of 11,521
The Pinnacle and B52 work really nice with the LCD3, sometimes awesomely (depends on the CD).
Listened to the Bee Gees last night on the Pinnacle and the Audezes, amazing deep musical non-muddy not-overwhelming bass, maybe the best Gibb vocals I ever heard, very balanced sound,
not pressured, not laid back, no glare, just right. (The Ultimate Bee Gees double CD.)
R.I.P. the Gibb Bros. :frowning2:(
 
Jun 13, 2012 at 10:43 PM Post #5,994 of 11,521
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I would have liked it if the S7 was a pre/amp not speaker/amp and given the price of 6SN7 tubes... not sure why it was chosen for a "budget" amp.  
 
Huh?  Most of my NOS tubes I use are the same price, give or take depending, as new stock crap Tung-sol tubes.  Even some of the cheapest NOS tubes are still better.  In fact, 5 of the 7 tubes I'm using cost me no more than $7-10 a piece.
 
Nit picking I'd also think it would look nicer if it was wider and shorter but it might be because of the height of the transformers.
 
Correct on the height.  Also to keep footrpint and price down on needing a separate power supply chassis.  Not sure what a V rectangle is.  You see a trapezoid somewhere?  It's a shoebox.

 
Jun 14, 2012 at 12:53 AM Post #5,995 of 11,521
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From what I’ve been reading it looks like the FR chart will tell you. the new ones from march onward have a different response. the slope downward starts at around 1.5 kHz instead of around 800 Hz as on the older drivers/ dampening material LCD3s. it’s not a subtle difference to read on the chart. That may put some minds at rest, I suppose (I know it’s what I’ll be looking for when I get mine in next week)

 
http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/ae132/doggiehowser/ab2b0d5c.jpg
 

 
The chart shows it was measured on March 18th this year. 
 
Not sure if I would characterise it as dropping from from 1.5 or 800 though.
 
Jun 14, 2012 at 6:39 AM Post #5,996 of 11,521
That's a post RMA model.  
 
As to the EC commentary... why are you guys getting upset?  Someone asked if the EC amps were considered goto wins by everyone.  I said no, and said what those that didn't think they were their cup of tea cited as the reasons.
 
Can you buy inexpensive 6sn7s?  Well yeah, but the ones I use are $230 a pair.  Which is $800 in tubes.  My 2A3 loadout would be $700.  Which can also be dragged down.
 
Jun 14, 2012 at 11:37 AM Post #5,997 of 11,521
No problem in having your own take on what you've seen over the forums (however accurate it is.)  When you're out in the middle of nowhere Canada, can't audition and don't want to purchase blind, other's opinions can help you decide whether a purchase would be worthwhile in the first place.  
 
But when someone asks about a product, better to let those who have owned or at least auditioned the item give the answers than give your own take on what you've read.  Those who love the product will come out of the woodwork as will those with dissenting opinions.  Then someone will give you a link to a post of theirs comparing it to something else.  Then, hopefully, there will be a somewhat productive discussion among those who have used the products.  At least provide links to threads (or even specific pages/posts) to help the user form their own conclusions about other's opinions.
 
To put it more bluntly to get the point across:  Honestly, I already take people's first-hand opinions with a grain of salt.  Why would I lend credence to an anonymous person giving their second hand approximation of the aggregate of what they sort of remember seeing on the web over the years?  (Or roughly, what Purrin said.)
 
Jun 14, 2012 at 11:54 AM Post #5,998 of 11,521

Quote:
That's a post RMA model.  
 
As to the EC commentary... why are you guys getting upset?  Someone asked if the EC amps were considered goto wins by everyone.  I said no, and said what those that didn't think they were their cup of tea cited as the reasons.
 
Can you buy inexpensive 6sn7s?  Well yeah, but the ones I use are $230 a pair.  Which is $800 in tubes.  My 2A3 loadout would be $700.  Which can also be dragged down.


 
/nicemode on
 
People are getting upset because you may be misleading other people by talking about stuff that you haven't heard. It's one thing to say not everyone will like a certain amp X, no matter how highly regarded. It's another thing to attribute what "other people" have said about certain amp X to bolster that argument.
 
I've heard that same criticism you cited about the BA before. Blubliss (who is a friend of my in real life) had once told me that he felt the TungSol 6SN7 BGRP with the KR PX4 output tubes were too grainy and trebly for the Sennheiser HD800 (no surprise - and I agree). It was easy for him to rectify the situation. He switched to the EML 300B solid plates and the RCA grey glass VT-231 and later Brimar 6SL7? (I don't know what he's running now). I actually feel the TS BGRP and KR PX4 is a great match for the LCD2r1 and LCD3, but not necessarily for the more treble oriented headphones (I thought I should mention this since this is an LCD3 thread).
 
Without qualifying your statements attributing certain sonic traits to the BA, you are misleading people: "Oh, someone said the BA sounds grainy and tipped up." That statement is balderdash. Heck, I could throw in a grainy and bright DAC in the chain, and the "BA" could "sound" that way too. There are things that the BA does not do well, and I know many people who prefer other amps, but the hearsay you cited is certainly not one of reasons why. The BA can cover an extremely wide range in terms of tone, grain, etch, lushness depending upon the version (PX25, PX4, 300B, AD1, 2A3, 45) or kinds of tubes (NOS, Central European, Chinese) used. You may not have known this because you have never heard or used the BA. Again, it's one thing to say not everyone will like a certain amp X, it's another thing to attribute what "other people" have said about certain amp X to bolster that argument. (It's not even necessary)
 
In terms of the Super 7, Anaxilus and I (who have had access to pre-production versions of the amp) have rolled many combinations of tubes, including some expensive 6SN7s in the output stages. It became obvious that using the most rare expensive rare tubes in six outputs did not necessarily yield the most optimal results. We also found that the most expensive and rare tubes with the most cachet did not necessarily sound the best. However, we did find that the driver tube was the most critical, and that the most transparent tube should be used in that position. For the output tubes, the best results were found by combining different tubes (many inexpensive) with specific characteristics to match the other components in the chain. Even then, the current production Russian Tung Sol 6SN7s in the outputs do yield great results out-of-the-gate.
 
For you to imply the S7's true price is deceptively low (or cheap tubes will yield sub-optimal results) because it would cost you an additional $900 because the 6SN7's that you happen to use are $230 pair shows that you don't yet have a complete understanding of how the amp works in practice. The S7 does not need $900 in tubes to sound good. You have never heard or used the S7, either loaded with cheap tubes, or rare expensive tubes, to qualify price/performance or whether it would be a good match for the LCD3.
 
Your argument is sound, but please stop characterizing stuff that you haven't heard or aren't familiar with.
 
Jun 14, 2012 at 12:57 PM Post #5,999 of 11,521
Reading too much into what I said.  There is no argument.  Head-Fi isn't a debate club.  Its information sharing.
 
So in that interest... what budget 6SN7 tubes have gotten you boutique performance at beer pricing?
 
Jun 14, 2012 at 12:57 PM Post #6,000 of 11,521
Reading too much into what I said.  There is no argument.  Head-Fi isn't a debate club.  Its information sharing.
 
So in that interest... what budget 6SN7 tubes have gotten you boutique performance at beer pricing?
 

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