[paulguru]

  I think these are a side-grade to HD650, also to Fidelio X2. That doesn't mean these are not great though. I prefer these to pricier Oppo PM-3, Audeze EL-8 and HD700, Beyer T90 and many many more. They are pricier but HE400S is more musical and fits better to my musical tastes. I value fun, engaging signature, and smooth treble over other traits. As I said, these are a side-grade to HD650 but still retains planar characteristics so they are as different as they are similar, and I prefer HE400S as the bass is better than HD650. It goes much lower whereas HD650 has just mid-bass but almost no sub-bass. Also I think these have better highs, crisper and more extended. Mids, I think it's a tie.In the end I'd choose 400S but I wouldn't be surprised if someone else preferred HD650. They are both great.
 
I think listening to rock with these is a very fun experience. Due to some magic they did, guitar based music sounds amazing and very non-fatiguing, even hard rock and metal. I think, as Matt said, there's some slight upper-mid dip. I'm not a pro on measurements and I may be making things up, but up to now, all headphones I've owned that sounded non-fatiguing and easy to listen with guitar based rock music have had slight dips in upper mids. That said, I'd wait for actual measurements to arrive to a conclusion.
 
I must also say HE400S has an addicting sound! I can't stop listening to music with it, it's a very nice experience.

HE400S have a deeper bass than HD650?
What amp you used ?
 
What have the general smoother presentation between HD650 and HE400S ?

 

[KepinCemit]

@paulguru
 
Found this too waaay back in page 50 btw http://www.head-fi.org/t/766529/new-2015-hifiman-he400s/735#post_11768106
 
EDIT : And this from page 61 : http://www.head-fi.org/t/766529/new-2015-hifiman-he400s/900#post_11797666
 
Hope that helps

 

[KepinCemit]

So my HE400s arrived a couple of days ago
 
Straight out of the box I seriously have buyer's remorse
 
They sounded very average, veiled (like how it would sound if you literally put a piece of cloth over the drivers), low to mid to high sounded very muddy / mixed together. no separation no detail
 
Sounded like a cheap $10 pair of throw away headphones (I got a couple of those, lol)
 
 
Disappointed, I let the 400s plugged in to my computer and just played songs from google play
 
I'm a non believer in burn-in (not trying to debate, just stating my belief ), but thought it couldn't sounded worse than how it was out of the box, so I let it burn
 
 
Anyway,
 
after probably 20++ hours playing, the 400s really opened up
 
It's like the veil has lifted, even from streaming music they sounded good.
 
 
Not sure if it's the burn in (this is my first planar btw, only tried dynamic drivers & balance armature iems previously) or what
 
I still dont believe in burn in (well, 50-50 now, lol), but there are considerable differences in the sound after I let it played music for 20++ hours. Not day-night differences, mind you, but still sounded better after the "burn in", at least to my ears
 
 
 
Still using stockpads, focus-a is still in transit somewhere around the world.
 
Was initially disappointed in bass quantity using stockpads.
Tried the old tissue paper inside the stockpads bowls since last night. Not sure if it's only placebo effect, but bass sounded better, has more quantity to my ears using this tissue paper trick, lol.
 
 
FWIW, I plugged this to Aune T1 dac/amp, playing mostly streaming music so far

 

[relikk356]

They sounded very average, veiled (like how it would sound if you literally put a piece of cloth over the drivers), low to mid to high sounded very muddy / mixed together. no separation no detail

I would never describe these as any thing like that. Thin at times maybe but not muddy. I modded these and put on alpha pads immediately so maybe that's why.Your Aune should be great with these.I used smsl amp, burson lycann, marantz 2238, and moto g3 phone. All sound great.

 

[KepinCemit]

I would never describe these as any thing like that. Thin at times maybe but not muddy. I modded these and put on alpha pads immediately so maybe that's why.Your Aune should be great with these.I used smsl amp, burson lycann, marantz 2238, and moto g3 phone. All sound great.

 
I'm not so well versed in audio terminology, so that's just how i can describe them, lol.
 
I am really happy of how they sound right now though
 
No more buyer's remorse

 

[bixby]

I would never describe these as any thing like that. Thin at times maybe but not muddy. I modded these and put on alpha pads immediately so maybe that's why.Your Aune should be great with these.I used smsl amp, burson lycann, marantz 2238, and moto g3 phone. All sound great.

Ditto, I think what he is hearing is the 50 cent dac and headphone amp chip in the computer trying to deal with a low impedance load.  Now he is hearing how great that headphone out port is.

 

[KepinCemit]

  Ditto, I think what he is hearing is the 50 cent dac and headphone amp chip in the computer trying to deal with a low impedance load.  Now he is hearing how great that headphone out port is.

 
Lol, might just be that
 
Anyway, still waiting for my focus A pads to arrive, must be around the world somewhere by now, hopefully it will arrive in another week or so
 
So tempted to do the grill mod, just afraid of breaking the ring, i'm clumsy like that

 

[betula]

   
Lol, might just be that
 
Anyway, still waiting for my focus A pads to arrive, must be around the world somewhere by now, hopefully it will arrive in another week or so
 
So tempted to do the grill mod, just afraid of breaking the ring, i'm clumsy like that

It is easier than removing the battery cover of your smartphone.

 

[betula]

I honestly don't understand Tyll from InnerFidelity and Z (from youtube ) raving about 400s.
In my opinion they are not that great at all. At least not for the masses. (For neutral fans maybe.)
With stock pads they sound rather disappointing. (Running from Mojo)
The sound is thin and lifeless with no bass.
HM5 pads improve sound a lot. And really a lot!
They become actually a listenable pair of headphones, which one can live with if they haven't ever heard better.
 There are some positives I can give them, like naturalness and black background. But even with HM5 pads they roll off in the low end. Yes, they do sound quite realistic with live acoustic music, but any other genres they sound anaemic and lifeless. Even though the clarity, linearity and neutrality is there.
 It is so much neutral, there is hardly anything left to enjoy in the sound. No fun factor at all.
If one is after neutral presentation and has a mathematical approach to sound and music might be able to find some joy in them.
If one wants to listen to music and enjoy every note and have fun, then avoid 400s.
400s is the little planar sister of the dynamic HD600s. I prefer X2s over both of them. But I would still choose HD600 over 400s, if I wanted to have a neutral pair of headphones for acoustic live music with vocals. For anything else X2s are 300% more fun for me.
Unsubscribing from the thread now. I didn't want to hurt anyone with my opinion, but I had to be honest with my last post in this thread.
My miles vary I guess.

 

[Mr Rick]

  I honestly don't understand Tyll from InnerFidelity and Z (from youtube ) raving about 400s.
In my opinion they are not that great at all. At least not for the masses. (For neutral fans maybe.)
With stock pads they sound rather disappointing. (Running from Mojo)
The sound is thin and lifeless with no bass.
HM5 pads improve sound a lot. And really a lot!
They become actually a listenable pair of headphones, which one can live with if they haven't ever heard better.
 There are some positives I can give them, like naturalness and black background. But even with HM5 pads they roll off in the low end. Yes, they do sound quite realistic with live acoustic music, but any other genres they sound anaemic and lifeless. Even though the clarity, linearity and neutrality is there.
 It is so much neutral, there is hardly anything left to enjoy in the sound. No fun factor at all.
If one is after neutral presentation and has a mathematical approach to sound and music might be able to find some joy in them.
If one wants to listen to music and enjoy every note and have fun, then avoid 400s.
400s is the little planar sister of the dynamic HD600s. I prefer X2s over both of them. But I would still choose HD600 over 400s, if I wanted to have a neutral pair of headphones for acoustic live music with vocals. For anything else X2s are 300% more fun for me.
Unsubscribing from the thread now. I didn't want to hurt anyone with my opinion, but I had to be honest with my last post in this thread.
My miles vary I guess.

You like tuna, I like salmon. That's fine with me.

 

[betula]

  You like tuna, I like salmon. That's fine with me.

And fine with me, dear Sir.
We still share the joy of music through quality headphones.

 

[Capt369]

  I honestly don't understand Tyll from InnerFidelity and Z (from youtube ) raving about 400s.
In my opinion they are not that great at all. At least not for the masses. (For neutral fans maybe.)
With stock pads they sound rather disappointing. (Running from Mojo)
The sound is thin and lifeless with no bass.
HM5 pads improve sound a lot. And really a lot!
They become actually a listenable pair of headphones, which one can live with if they haven't ever heard better.
 There are some positives I can give them, like naturalness and black background. But even with HM5 pads they roll off in the low end. Yes, they do sound quite realistic with live acoustic music, but any other genres they sound anaemic and lifeless. Even though the clarity, linearity and neutrality is there.
 It is so much neutral, there is hardly anything left to enjoy in the sound. No fun factor at all.
If one is after neutral presentation and has a mathematical approach to sound and music might be able to find some joy in them.
If one wants to listen to music and enjoy every note and have fun, then avoid 400s.
400s is the little planar sister of the dynamic HD600s. I prefer X2s over both of them. But I would still choose HD600 over 400s, if I wanted to have a neutral pair of headphones for acoustic live music with vocals. For anything else X2s are 300% more fun for me.
Unsubscribing from the thread now. I didn't want to hurt anyone with my opinion, but I had to be honest with my last post in this thread.
My miles vary I guess.

The X2's sound fuzzy to me. I much prefer the TH-XOO. TBH, I loved the X2 till I got the XOO.
 
I am not affiliated with Foster or Massdrop...jmho.

 

[betula]

 
The X2's sound fuzzy to me. I much prefer the TH-XOO. TBH, I loved the X2 till I got the XOO.
 
I am not affiliated with Foster or Massdrop...jmho.

That's why I went for the TH-X00. Just waiting for delivery to arrive.
Edit: (However after buying Mojo I do not hear X2s fuzzy at all. But I get what you mean with that. With lower end amps and DACs they can sound fuzzy. But we are going off the rail here.)

 

[serman005]

  I honestly don't understand Tyll from InnerFidelity and Z (from youtube ) raving about 400s.
In my opinion they are not that great at all. At least not for the masses. (For neutral fans maybe.)
With stock pads they sound rather disappointing. (Running from Mojo)
The sound is thin and lifeless with no bass.
HM5 pads improve sound a lot. And really a lot!
They become actually a listenable pair of headphones, which one can live with if they haven't ever heard better.
 There are some positives I can give them, like naturalness and black background. But even with HM5 pads they roll off in the low end. Yes, they do sound quite realistic with live acoustic music, but any other genres they sound anaemic and lifeless. Even though the clarity, linearity and neutrality is there.
 It is so much neutral, there is hardly anything left to enjoy in the sound. No fun factor at all.
If one is after neutral presentation and has a mathematical approach to sound and music might be able to find some joy in them.
If one wants to listen to music and enjoy every note and have fun, then avoid 400s.
400s is the little planar sister of the dynamic HD600s. I prefer X2s over both of them. But I would still choose HD600 over 400s, if I wanted to have a neutral pair of headphones for acoustic live music with vocals. For anything else X2s are 300% more fun for me.
Unsubscribing from the thread now. I didn't want to hurt anyone with my opinion, but I had to be honest with my last post in this thread.
My miles vary I guess.

To each her own, I guess. MMV considerably from yours. But everyone is entitled to their experience, that's part of makes the hobby so fun....

 

[betula]

 
To each her own, I guess. MMV considerably from yours. But everyone is entitled to their experience, that's part of makes the hobby so fun....

Sure. If everyone liked tomato soup, we would live in a very boring world.
But we still share the joy of good food.