[Mud_Pum]

Actually I would say that sound waves, vibrations, the physical mechanisms of the ear are an important part of the process - They are part of the various conditions that along with needed cause - give rise to sound but hearing itself is 'experienced' with the mind. You can for example 'hear' sounds with the sleeping (or subtle) mind . . . but that's a whole 'nother topic

Absolutely they are all an important part of the process. The physical differentiation between the ears of different people will even cause what was a uniformly produced wave to be received differently. I’m not sure I would call it hearing but I do agree that perception is very dependent on a multitude of factors. You could even include the current individuals mood. However, sound is still sound. It is a physical and true phenomena. Just as a Richter scale measures the waves in an earthquake, so too does a microphone for physical sound waves. While graphs will not tell one exactly how they will hear something, if they are properly and consistently compensated and facilitated then they will be an accurate representation of whatever is producing the sound. It’s up to each individual to analyze their own hearing and realize where their own unique quirks and differentiations arise.

 

[jude]

Could you kindly share your graph here or link to were it is posted?
Despite me trust being more in ears rather than graphs I still find them interesting!

 

[jon parker]

Absolutely they are all an important part of the process. The physical differentiation between the ears of different people will even cause what was a uniformly produced wave to be received differently. I’m not sure I would call it hearing but I do agree that perception is very dependent on a multitude of factors. You could even include the current individuals mood. However, sound is still sound. It is a physical and true phenomena. Just as a Richter scale measures the waves in an earthquake, so too does a microphone for physical sound waves. While graphs will not tell one exactly how they will hear something, if they are properly and consistently compensated and facilitated then they will be an accurate representation of whatever is producing the sound. It’s up to each individual to analyse their own hearing and realise where their own unique quirks and differentiations arise.

Great points!
and that's what makes this hobby so wonderful and yet at times frustrating as well - There are so many potential variables that come into play to arrive at the end result of what someone 'hears' and also from one POV why a lot of the debates here are kind of pointless - Maybe the best we can hope for is to to work together to arrive at an over all consensus of the general qualities of any given headphone?

I must admit I have been listening to the NDH 20's with 3 different heads

1. from a purist perspective of an Audiophile
2. from a working perspective in the studio / editing suite
3. from a music lovers perspective

My views are definitely different in regard to each of the above. Subtle but different
I personally maintain though that they are a superb headphone especially in that they are closed back But I can appreciate some of the points people have been making here and whilst I dont think they are as bad as might be construed Im really looking forward to more people hearing them and hearing more impressions. I have a couple of top recording and mastering engineer colleagues that I look forward to seeing soon and getting their [working] impressions of these headphones

 

[FullBright1]

I am however more than happy to listen to others views and measure what they posit against my own views and experiences and as a result
re-evaluate and re-listen to see if what they say rings true for me or not

Of course.
We are all here for the same reason.
To listen, to think about it, to respond.....to stir the pot, have some fun arguing about it all.
I stopped responding to gear threads, for the most part, about 2 months ago, because i get banned here too much, and i got tired of being "reported" by people that get upset if i dont agree with them.
And this gets me banned.....so, got tired of this, as why to run to a mod just because someone does not agree with your point of view?
Some children run to the mods, i get banned, so, = tired of it.

So, mostly now, i just hang out on the music Thread.
But, on occasion, i'll be on one of the gear threads, no doubt, causing some people's stomach's to hurt.

The Neumanns are a nice listen.
They are not for everyone......just like all other headphones ever created or yet to be created will not please all who spent all that money on them.


carry on.....

 

[FullBright1]

I really don't think every mastering engineer would agree with you on these headphones (or any other for that matter). You won't get unanimity.

There are a few things you can count on in life.
One, is that you are born , so this means you are going to die.
Death is the end result of birth, for everyone who is currently breathing.

Two, Not everyone is going to agree with you, and what i do is try to understand why they would not agree with me. Usually its because they are not experienced enough to agree with me, yet.
Maybe they'll catch up. Anything is possible.
For example, most reviews of the Neumann disagree with what is being posted today, which is........ etched treble, too much bass, scooped mids.
But for some reason, One poster is running with this idea and a few have picked it up and are carrying it now.
But if you look at the history of this Thread, and go and read 15 online reviews of the gear, noone else thinks these headphones have missing mids, etched treble, and too much bass.
So, its just one of those things........ One person has this idea, and others are running behind in line for a while.
It'll end soon.


Three, Not everyone is going to like you. Some people just will never like you, and that is just how it will always be.
Where this can be a real thorn in the eye is if you have some of these types on a forum like this one, and all they do is contradict what you say..........not because they care about the topic, but just because they have an issue with you, and so, they are always wanting to argue and dismiss and be sarcastic.
And with these types, you have to be careful, because if you hurt their little feelings, they will run crying to a mod and you'll have some issues then, because the Mod will never take the time to read a few of the posts to find out what is really going on, and you'll be blamed for everything, when in fact you just got tired of dealing with hateful little minds, post after post after post.

 

[oldmate]

Well I visited this thread to get some more insight into these headphones and what do you know.

It has descended into the usual Head.Fi crap.

Well and truly over it.

 

[lichie]

Well I visited this thread to get some more insight into these headphones and what do you know.

It has descended into the usual Head.Fi crap.

Well and truly over it.

What else did you expect? This is Head-fi after all.

 

[oldmate]

What else did you expect? This is Head-fi after all.

Yeah true but fair dinkum, it is frustrating when you want info only to find pages of unrelated diatribe.

Anyways, I've grabbed the NAD Viso HP50's for $115.00 USD. I've had them before so at this stage my search for another closed back is over.

 

[warrenpchi]

Also to be fair Oratory's measurements also show quite the dip in the mids.

Actually, this raw plot looks pretty much exactly like mine, including its comparison to the Harman AE/OE target. (Do you know if he measured it himself, or if he's basing this on existing measurements on the web?)

The vertical scale is different (70 dBSPL spread on mine, 50 dBSPL on his), and his frequency axis is also more compressed, which does make them look different.

Could you kindly share your graph here or link to were it is posted?
Despite me trust being more in ears rather than graphs I still find them interesting!

Being curious, I decided to superimpose Oratory's plot on top of Jude's plot, just to see how similar they are. I matched the scales of both plots, and then left only Oratory's line intact (in red) just below Jude's plot. Here's what that resulted in:



I would guess Oratory is using Jude's measurement for this example.

 

[wazzupi]

I love my pair up until now i thought only eikons could sound like open back hps but this price

Yeah true but fair dinkum, it is frustrating when you want info only to find pages of unrelated diatribe.

Anyways, I've grabbed the NAD Viso HP50's for $115.00 USD. I've had them before so at this stage my search for another closed back is over.

Thanks for stopping by now see yourself out.

 

[FullBright1]

Anyways, I've grabbed the NAD Viso HP50's for $115.00 USD. I've had them before so at this stage my search for another closed back is over.

Talking about Nad Viso's on the Neumann Thread is also unrelated to the Thread.
So, thank you for doing what you can't stand.
Also, if you are looking for another closed that is 4x its value in sound vs it cost, then grab the Monoprice 565 Closed.
Its way way too much headphone for the price.

 

[jon parker]

Now this is interesting o_0

I spent some time today using the NDH 20's with the iBasso DX90 - A highly regarded reference DAP which has ESS Sabre DAC chips - a neutral clean detailed sounding DAP

and the sound was very different to how they sound with the iBasso DX150 - The [always there] warm low end was completely absent with the DX90
In fact there was a very linear balance between the lows, mids and highs. In fact the Headphone was giving an almost flat frequency response - A quite different sound

What does this mean?
The headphone is a lot more responsive and true to the source than I thought - Maybe even TOO true to the source !!

My admiration of the headphone has increased even further - and as always reminds me that you always need to be aware that EVERY element in your signal chain can make a huge difference in what you hear and that you have to very careful in declaring a headphone IS like this or that or has any kind of definitive characteristic

 

[Tsukuyomi]

Is anyone having fitment issues with their headphone? like is the headband uncomfortable after hours of music(sore spots?)
also are the ear pads and ear cups deep enough (large enough) to accommodate larger ears?
do you guys wear glasses while using them? do they still seal with glasses on and feel comfortable(not pushing glasses arms against head too firmly) ?

 

[wazzupi]

Is anyone having fitment issues with their headphone? like is the headband uncomfortable after hours of music(sore spots?)
also are the ear pads and ear cups deep enough (large enough) to accommodate larger ears?
do you guys wear glasses while using them? do they still seal with glasses on and feel comfortable(not pushing glasses arms against head too firmly) ?

After 6 hours of gaming my ears started to get sensitive aka minor discomfort ive got pretty big/tall esrs plus glasses and no seal issues.

 

[Beagle]

Well I visited this thread to get some more insight into these headphones and what do you know.

It has descended into the usual Head.Fi crap.

Well and truly over it.

You mean like what you just posted?

Is anyone having fitment issues with their headphone? like is the headband uncomfortable after hours of music(sore spots?)
also are the ear pads and ear cups deep enough (large enough) to accommodate larger ears?
do you guys wear glasses while using them? do they still seal with glasses on and feel comfortable(not pushing glasses arms against head too firmly) ?

They get more comfortable as you use them. The pass get a bit softer and the clamping force becomes less tight. I didn't find the clamping any more strong than, say, a Ht58X or 600/650.