[woodcans]

I have run mine out of FiiO q5 and mDave. These are a phenomenal phone that scale very, very well. To my ears the midrange is excellent and in no way recessed.

 

[lichie]

Why would Neumann create a headphone specifically for professional studio use, mixing [and mastering?] and tune it with recessed mids ?
I would suggest that people listen to the NDH20's on equipment also designed with the quality and power to ACCURATELY offer what the audio is - no more and no less
Then you can fully appreciate what Neumann has actually managed to create here

@ballard3 - It can be a little frustrating when people offer opinions on headphones solely based on graphs alone or if they have not actually heard the headphone in question or if perhaps they offer very quick opinions using their phone & a streaming service believing their opinions are 'accurate'

Everyone's opinion is valuable and should of course be respected BUT many many people come to these forums to try to find unbiased genuine feedback about headphones and based on what they read could potentially spend a lot of money based on what they read here.

We are a passionate bunch as well

If tuning a headphone was as simple as you imply, there would be a lot more amazing headphones out there. Unfortunately, tuning a headphone is extremely difficult and not a perfected science. A lot of it is just experimenting with different driver types, baffles, damping materials, cup shapes, etc. The material and density of every part of the headphone exposed to the sound from the driver has a role in tuning the headphone. All of this becomes even more difficult when you make it a closed back. Neumann seems to have achieved the response of the NDH20 by including a lot of foam in the enclosure and on the baffle, and with very thick memory foam pads. This makes for a pretty decent monitoring headphone because you get a lot of isolation. But the dynamics are severely impacted by the foam. This gives it a lot less "slam" and resolution, especially in the bass and mid range.

https://www.sonarworks.com/blog/gear-reviews/neumann-ndh20-headphone-review/

Here is a review of the NDH20 by Rudi at Sonarworks. Its short and sweet and pretty much reflects my opinion of the headphone. His graphs look pretty accurate to what I hear as well. He reviews the headphone from the perspective of a mastering engineer, not an audiophile, and he also comments that the mid range is too scooped out for it to truly be used as a pro mastering headphone.

 

[Enn Jott]

This is the Sonarworks verdict and i think it's spot on. Also @lichie is right that it makes a (big) difference coming from an audiophile or mixing/mastering (making music in general) engineer background.

How would we evaluate the Neumann NDH 20 out-of-box?

• Overall: a very decent tonal response for a closed back headphone, no closed headphone coloration, but too much low end and scooped upper mids stop them from reaching absolute greatness
• Pros: a well-engineered headphone driver with class leading THD performance and low-end extension, superb build quality
• Cons: too much bass, upper mid scoop is pleasant, but can misguide your mixing decisions, highs a tad too hot

 

[jon parker]

If tuning a headphone was as simple as you imply, there would be a lot more amazing headphones out there. Unfortunately, tuning a headphone is extremely difficult and not a perfected science. A lot of it is just experimenting with different driver types, baffles, damping materials, cup shapes, etc. The material and density of every part of the headphone exposed to the sound from the driver has a role in tuning the headphone. All of this becomes even more difficult when you make it a closed back. Neumann seems to have achieved the response of the NDH20 by including a lot of foam in the enclosure and on the baffle, and with very thick memory foam pads. This makes for a pretty decent monitoring headphone because you get a lot of isolation. But the dynamics are severely impacted by the foam. This gives it a lot less "slam" and resolution, especially in the bass and mid range.
https://www.sonarworks.com/blog/gear-reviews/neumann-ndh20-headphone-review/
Here is a review of the NDH20 by Rudi at Sonarworks. Its short and sweet and pretty much reflects my opinion of the headphone. His graphs look pretty accurate to what I hear as well. He reviews the headphone from the perspective of a mastering engineer, not an audiophile, and he also comments that the mid range is too scooped out for it to truly be used as a pro mastering headphone.

'As I imply' ?? I implied no such thing. Im very well aware about the difficulties of tuning headphones...having modded a few myself I also appreciate how a very little change can make a big difference!

Anyway, I get what your saying about the sound however i think with the mids, as they have their own clear space within the mix, any lack in resolution is workable.
The low end can be a bit much at times but not by much and usually reflects the recording to a lesser or greater degree
They are not perfect but speaking as an Audiophile and a sound engineer myself I think they can, with some caveats be a very good headphone [or at the very least a very interesting and unique sounding headphone!]
Although - Ive only listened with my Audiophile head-on thus far - I've yet to take them into a studio or to do any work with them

Anyone who uses a headphone for professional audio work will ALWAYS need to have an intimate relationship and understanding of the tuning of said headphone to be able to produce accurate work

I have to say, I love the NDH20's but to balance that out - I have noticed a few characteristics - I agree about the dynamics - they seem to give you everything, almost like the sound has been normalised or compressed in the sense that, well, you hear EVERYTHING - for that reason [and the tuning] they have a superb clarity and detail but sometimes they can be a bit . . . un suble [no offence intended] but like an American - not bad...just loud and somewhat un-subtle at times

I can appreciate what the fella is saying from Sonarworks (although he is talking more about mixing than mastering - except after using their software when suddenly they become great Mastering headphones!!) but hey WITH THEIR SOFTWARE the headphone can suddenly become pretty much perfect !!?! Ok
I would not completely trust a reviewer who is reviewing from and working for a company that tunes headphones!!

Just to add about 'having a lot less slam & resolution in the bass' - Sometimes I have found amazingly accurate resolution and slam here and sometimes not. I have yet to experience any 'hot' highs though

The sound reminds me of the first time I heard music through studio monitors - So much more . . .of everything than I had ever heard before - more detail, resolution, grandure - It was that experience that put me on the oath to becoming a sound engineer - It blew me away
The sound coming out of the NDH20 reminds me a lot of that first experience. From one point of view it can [sometimes] be a lot to take in but by the gods it is beautiful and glorious

 

[FullBright1]

https://www.sonarworks.com/blog/gear-reviews/neumann-ndh20-headphone-review/

Here is a review of the NDH20 by Rudi at Sonarworks. Its short and sweet and pretty much reflects my opinion of the headphone. His graphs look pretty accurate to what I hear as well. He reviews the headphone from the perspective of a mastering engineer, not an audiophile, and he also comments that the mid range is too scooped out for it to truly be used as a pro mastering headphone.

I dont think i've ever read a more inaccurate review of a set of headphones then the one you posted, regarding that link.
Every single thing he said about the headphone is absolutely the opposite of the sound of the headphone.
This gear has no treble etch, it does not offer too much bass, and the mids are not scooped.
I would find you a "mastering engineer" review to contradict yours, but instead, as im a Mastering engineer, you can just take my word for it.
The Neumanns offer a dry but balanced sound. Decently analytical.
They are a very decent set of monitoring headphones.
They do not have a "V" shape, they are not bass heavy, and they are certainly not treble etched.
Someone needs to get your reviewer a set of Audiotech MSR7s, as that is what he is describing, and certainly not the Neumanns.

 

[Blinxat]

Why would you believe someone who sells EQ correction software? Ofc he will find flaws with any FREQ response.

 

[Max_Settings]

>Mids aren’t scooped out

 

[lichie]

Why would you believe someone who sells EQ correction software? Ofc he will find flaws with any FREQ response.

I totally understand not fully trusting his review. I actually scoffed at it when I first found it, expecting it to be bad. But I can't deny that his measurements and description of how the headphone sounds matches what I hear.

I dont think i've ever read a more inaccurate review of a set of headphones then the one you posted, regarding that link.
Every single thing he said about the headphone is absolutely the opposite of the sound of the headphone.
This gear has no treble etch, it does not offer too much bass, and the mids are not scooped.
I would find you a "mastering engineer" review to contradict yours, but instead, as im a Mastering engineer, you can just take my word for it.
The Neumanns offer a dry but balanced sound. Decently analytical.
They are a very decent set of monitoring headphones.
They do not have a "V" shape, they are not bass heavy, and they are certainly not treble etched.
Someone needs to get your reviewer a set of Audiotech MSR7s, as that is what he is describing, and certainly not the Neumanns.

I do enjoy the treble of this headphone, and wouldn't fully agree with his statement that its a "tad too hot", but to say that this headphone isn't bass heavy is just denying facts. I will stick to the opinion of the mastering engineer who seems to hear these the same way I do.

 

[FullBright1]

I do enjoy the treble of this headphone, and wouldn't fully agree with his statement that its a "tad too hot", but to say that this headphone isn't bass heavy is just denying facts.

Im not really familiar with this person.
They are a "mastering engineer"?
Of what?

Here are some Mastering Engineers.

FullBright 1
Bob Ludwig
George Marino
Greg Calbi
Stephen Marcussen

People like this are "Mastering Engineers".
Let me explain to you what this means.
It does not mean that we create software to alter the sound of headphones.
What it does mean, is that we take MUSIC that is recorded and we make it better.
So, im not certain if your "mastering engineer" is involved with actual Music in the Music Industry ........but im sure you could enlighten us regarding this information about them.

 

[Max_Settings]

Im not really familiar with this person.
They are a "mastering engineer"?
Of what?

Here are some Mastering Engineers.

FullBright 1
Bob Ludwig
George Marino
Greg Calbi
Stephen Marcussen

People like this are "Mastering Engineers".
Let me explain to you what this means.
It does not mean that we create software to alter the sound of headphones.
What it does mean, is that we take MUSIC that is recorded and we make it better.
So, im not certain if your "mastering engineer" is involved with actual Music in the Music Industry ........but im sure you could enlighten us regarding this information about them.

Cool.I'm Hans Zimmer. Mids are dipped. Jesus imagine thinking that claiming online you are a mastering engineer gives you the right to deny objective measurements. Literally anyone could claim that.

 

[Max_Settings]

Also to be fair you know how many terrible mixes there are out there. Being a mastering engineer doesn't mean you know sound.

 

[FullBright1]

Cool.I'm Hans Zimmer. Mids are dipped. Jesus imagine thinking that claiming online you are a mastering engineer gives you the right to deny objective measurements. Literally anyone could claim that.

Well, if you are Hans Zimmer you need to lose some weight, and also....you are not a Mastering Engineer, you are a musician, Mr Zimmer..... so, unlike me, you can't really qualify yourself to address what the reviewer unfortunately posted on a blog, about the Neumanns.
Also, most who argue about the sound quality of a headphone on this site, have no legitimate reason to do it, other then they own the gear.
So, as this poster we are discussing now..... was trying to qualify themselves based on one single person they are convinced has created the perfect review of the Neumanns, and all of this based on "mastering engineer" as the proof......then,
it stands to reason that as this is what i am actually qualified to do and do professionally, ... my view will be the one that can address and correct what this review has surmised.
Im still waiting to find out if this reviewer actually works in the music industry as a legit " Mastering Engineer".
I would be surprised if the posters reviewer is an actual mastering engineer with a music studio......but, i'll guess we'll find out., or not.
But even if they are, their review of the Neumann is misinformed.
Also, the mids are not dipped, the bass is not overcooked, and the trebles are not etched, regarding the Neumanns.

 

[FullBright1]

Cool.I'm Hans Zimmer. Mids are dipped. Jesus imagine thinking that claiming online you are a mastering engineer gives you the right to deny objective measurements. Literally anyone could claim that.

And once again Mr Zimmer.

Here is a Neumann NDH 20 review, and fortunately, the reviewer seems to have quite good hearing skills.

Here are some of his credentials....
Enjoy the review, and dont be afraid to get back with me once you find out what actual Music Mastering the reviewer at Sonarworks, has been doing........ would be interesting to find out.

Carsten Kaiser

Carsten Kaiser, born in 1974, is a sociologist (MA) and a cultural scientist (BA). He graduated jazz singing from the Glen Bushman Jazz Academy in Dortmund and attended the Conservatory of Hogeschool Enschede (NL). Today Kaiser works mainly as a producer and author of books and researches as a sociologist in the field of Art and Science of Record Production.

-
-
https://www.headphonecheck.com/test/neumann-ndh-20/

Dont want to read it?
Then here is the summary...

""""These Neumann NDH 20 closed-back over-ear headphones are an ideal aid for analytical sound applications such as recording, editing and mixing in studio environments. They do a good job at the deepest depths of the bass range, while also performing brilliantly when it comes to midrange differentiation. Additionally, a more discreet performance in the highs results in a less pronounced stereo image, a lower transient definition and a more extensive depth graduation. Those looking into this particular piece of hardware from Neumann will likely be satisfied with these specs, although they still take a little while to get used to. Quality of materials, manufacturing, detail and design are all exemplary. Here, these Neumann headphones inspire all round. Thanks to interchangeable cables and high sensitivity, these headphones are not only suitable for studio and professional applications, but can also be used as a hi-fi listening aid and for use on the go. With all that in mind, the NDH 20 has a price/performance ration that’s perfectly in order. """"

 

[jude]

I really don't think all mastering engineers would unanimously agree on a given headphone. Despite common goals, I'm sure their preferences (as well as their own physical response with given headphones) differs from mastering engineer to mastering engineer.

 

[FullBright1]

I really don't think all mastering engineers would unanimously agree on a given headphone. Despite common goals, I'm sure their preferences (as well as their own physical response with given headphones) differs from mastering engineer to mastering engineer.

Mastering engineers agree on one thing.
This is, that the magic of music happens within the midrange.
Music LIVES in the mids.
So, a ME is going to take note of speakers and headphones that have a good mid, vs one that is a "V" shape, as this is the death of music, as it castrates it.
The Neumanns like the recent Quads, are good with mids.
Not the best, but they do a good job with the mids.
The HEXV2 are good with mids.
The Audeze LCD-X are better then average, regarding mids.
Critical listening skills, are not about noticing the treble and bass response.
Think of it like this..... You have a Cake, and you have Icing on the Cake. The cake is the Midrange, the rest is the icing.
If you read 50 reviews of a certain gear, and all the reviews shout about the treble and bass, but say little about the mids, then you are not dealing with truly experienced listeners, and you are not dealing with an audiophile product. You are dealing with "consumer or prosumer" sound.
Quality of musical sound is always regarding midrange, because this is where music and musical reproduction accuracy live.