[Beolab]

Some female to female XLR couplers will be here tomorrow so will be able to run headphones direct out of the Select's balanced out's. Hopefully this will work okay, even better if it sounded good as Roy (Romaz) is telling me that DAC direct outputs do sound excellent. 

Will do a more detailed report on the sound of the Select tomorrow with and without an amp if all goes well. Still no sign of mine and this is going to back shortly plus the Nagra has found a new home. 

I can tell you that the Select has altered my understanding of what was possible, the lines between SOTA Analog & Digital have now been crossed. IMHO it sounds better than my previous SOTA Vinyl rig. I have experimented on a couple of people, one an experienced Head-Fier, the other my sharp hearing partner. Her respond was I think the best:

"I had to keep reminding myself that a machine and not a human was producing the sound".

Analog rig:

Rockport Sirius III
Integrated linear tracking arm with on the fly adjustment of VTA
Most preferred Cartridge - Air Tight Supreme

The difficult task is how to best convey it to you guys, for now all I can say is that its very very hard trying to describe the sound as usually you can say its got more bass or its soundstage is is wider etc etc, when my brain is telling me its real the analytical part shuts down as you are intoxicated by the music. Especially through headphones - its wired direct to brain. Usually I sit reading articles, surfing the web etc, this machine and its time travel effect makes it an effort to focus on doing anything else. There is no one aspect that I can comment on, it does;t have more bas than this or a better soundstage than that - its just shockingly real, not bright, not dark, everything is at it should be, there is no veil anymore, I am in the room not looking through the window.

I will ask my friend Matt to jump in here and comment. 

To be continued......

Is it with the Abyss or HE1K you are find this sound nirvana on, or both?

 

[isquirrel]

Is it with the Abyss or HE1K you are find this sound nirvana on, or both?

Neither, LCD-4 & occasionally Abyss

 

[isquirrel]

   
I wonder if MSB Analog has I2S input ? do we have to buy from MSB which is the green ethernet connection I2S ? should have implemented using HDMI.

MSB Analog DAC has I2S input option, its debate which format they should have used, MSB would argue that their solution is technically superior. There is no I2S standard unfortunately.

 

[Fririce0003]

  Thought I'd put in my 2 cents regarding the Select II DAC, I had the opportunity to listen to the system that Simon had assembled for a couple of minutes. Having previously heard it at the local distributors in a speaker system and then having the chance to hear it in a more familiar headphone system really did reinforce how good the DAC and the system as a whole is. I've heard a number of good DAC's, DaVinci, Kalliope, Nagra, to name a few, though I'm yet to hear a proper analogue system. Each of the DAC's above had parts of the sound that stood out and attracted your attention, but the Select is a different beast entirely, which is why it's so difficult to convey the sound it produced.
  The only way I can find to describe the sound is natural, organic and real. All the standard phrases I'd normally use such as dynamics, transients, transparency and extension are no longer applicable. Nothing stands out about the sound the DAC produces, especially in a system of that quality, which is exactly the beauty of the Select. You're no longer listening to a component, system or a recording, you just hear the music. It's a completely different experience to what I've had before.
  Even the words transparent don't do the Select justice, other DAC's I've heard I'd describe as transparent in that they don't seem to interfere with the system or the recording. But the Select took it further in that it no longer sounds like a recording, more like a live performance. Everything is just so real, tangible and wholesome.
  I really do wish I were better with my words so I were capable of describing the sound I heard, but it was just so different that I'm at a complete and utter loss for words. Hopefully once Simon's has arrived and he's spent a good deal more time with it he'll have a good grasp of the characteristics of the Select and will be able to put those findings into writing. And hopefully I'll be able to go up for another visit!

Though hopefully it won't involve assembling those HRS stands and cable management of the massive Shunyata Sigma cables, though helping put together a system of that standard was an experience in itself. Learned a great deal from that trip.

 

[isquirrel]

Thanks Matt, you were a great help, I am sure you'll be here soon enough, in the meantime I have work to do as the Select has given a great base to the system, now it's a matter of fine tuning inputs, music servers etc. Popped the RCA Black Glass 6SN7's in again today & got a very different, better response from last time, tomorrow am I'm picking up the XLR adapters to experiment with running the headphones direct.

Will report this time tomorrow on that experience. Thanks again and I thought you have done a good job on explaining the sound. A friends Chord DAVE is due any day now, a special component to be sure, we will see what that offers.

 

[Yoga]

Sounds incredible fellas.
 
As @negura mentioned that's the impression the Signature V + UMT over I2S gives. Can't wait to hear your impressions of Select + I2S source.

 

[Beolab]

Thanks Matt, you were a great help, I am sure you'll be here soon enough, in the meantime I have work to do as the Select has given a great base to the system, now it's a matter of fine tuning inputs, music servers etc. Popped the RCA Black Glass 6SN7's in again today & got a very different, better response from last time, tomorrow am I'm picking up the XLR adapters to experiment with running the headphones direct.

Will report this time tomorrow on that experience. Thanks again and I thought you have done a good job on explaining the sound. A friends Chord DAVE is due any day now, a special component to be sure, we will see what that offers.

Cant wait to here the result on how the Chord DAVE hold up against the mighty MSB Select !!

 

[isquirrel]

Well that's highly disturbing, picked up the badly made XLR couplers and tried DAC direct, which is a pain as my cables are short, the sound is amazing, DAC Direct wow, unfortunately as the adapters are of poorly made quality 

 there is a significant channel in-balance - which I can't correct as there are no balance controls. Hmm now hunt for some better adapters and I need longer cables. But very very promising 1st results.

 

[Beolab]

Nice, did it sound more neutral with less colorisation than the Wooś, but with less warmth i can imagine, so you eventually can end up with just a Streamer/DAC/Headphones combo?

 

[isquirrel]

Right after an hours round trip I have a replacement XLR Female to Female Convertor - joined all my (identical) interconnects together and now I have excellent channel balance and a good length of cable, not ideal but its works well enough. The sound is not lacking in warmth at all, actually it has as incredibly fun presence and tonal colours. The clarity is just amazing. When I think about it makes no sense either than to add sound tuning to use an amp any amp. Using a valve amp it would have to cut the dynamic range of the DAC in half, a massive amount of degradation. The way to go now is:
 
A   -  For my own Select to turn up
 
B   -  Just been told that the DAVE is 2 weeks away, due to the CES (?) 
 
C   -  Order some long female XLR ended headphone cables

 

[Yoga]

  Right after an hours round trip I have a replacement XLR Female to Female Convertor - joined all my (identical) interconnects together and now I have excellent channel balance and a good length of cable, not ideal but its works well enough. The sound is not lacking in warmth at all, actually it has as incredibly fun presence and tonal colours. The clarity is just amazing. When I think about it makes no sense either than to add sound tuning to use an amp any amp. Using a valve amp it would have to cut the dynamic range of the DAC in half, a massive amount of degradation. The way to go now is:
 
A   -  For my own Select to turn up
 
B   -  Just been told that the DAVE is 2 weeks away, due to the CES (?) 
 
C   -  Order some long female XLR ended headphone cables

What's the power / drive like at louder volumes on both the LCD4 and Abyss? 
 
I would assume the Abyss needs an amp while the Audeze is comfortable without.

 

[isquirrel]

Power is fine with the LCD-4 there is plenty more available. Haven't tried the Abyss yet - I will and shall report 

 

[Yoga]

  Power is fine with the LCD-4 there is plenty more available. Haven't tried the Abyss yet - I will and shall report 

Great stuff (on both counts).
 
Enjoy :¬)

 

[Beolab]

This is great Simon!

We have a very interesting time and testing ahead of us to look forward to!

If i had the extra money over i had also bought the Select, so i hope it will not just run over the DAVE to easy, i hope it can give the Select a good match and be a great nr 2 at the DAC podium!

The only drawback with DAVE is that it was not designed to connect headphoes to the XLR outputs ;( You can do it and it can drive the headphones very well, but the DAC gets hot and produce higher harmonic distortion in parrallel to using the dedicated 6,3 mm phono jacket or the SE RCA outputs according to Rob.
So the Select have a little advantage to the DAVE from the starting to make a fare and square comparison. And like the Select, DAVE does not draw any benefits when you are using it together with an separate amp, if you dont want to reduce the SQ in half.
The amp just adding more power to the table..

Does the Select also produce 6 volts / 0,5 current amps @ 32 Ohms like the DAVE Simon, do you have that info?

Me myself waiting for my Black DAVE, and have also ordered the HeadTrip amp from Jeff just for fun, when i just want to have a easy listening with great power and control in some occasions, was my thought, but in the end i may end up just using the DAVE, so it could be a small mistake to have ordered the HeadTrip :S

 

[romaz]

 

Does the Select also produce 6 volts / 0,5 current amps @ 32 Ohms like the DAVE Simon, do you have that info?

 

This is according to the Select II owner's manual:


Output Impedance: 75 ohms

Balanced Output: 3.5 V RMS (10 Vpp)

Single Ended Output: 2.8 V RMS (7.8 Vpp) 


It is the RMS values that are important.  This would make the LCD-4, with its impedance of 100 ohms well suited for direct connection to the balanced outputs of the Select II. At 100 ohms, this headphone should be an easy load for the Select II to drive.  The HD800 with its impedance of 300 ohms would be even easier to drive and should sound wonderful. 


The LCD-4 is a good fit in another way.  3.5V RMS is going to produce well under a watt, probably not enough for some planars or if you are a headbanger looking for gain but it seems as though it's quite adequate for the LCD-4 with its relatively high efficiency rating of 100dB/mW.  


Other headphones like the Abyss, HE6, HEK or Dharma will be a more taxing load and I would imagine the Select II will not sound as relaxed with these lower impedance headphones although they still could sound quite good.  You will likely lose some dynamic headroom, especially at higher volumes and clipping will be more likely to occur although it is doubtful that periodic clipping will damage something as robust as the Select II.  


This brings up a final point.  Just because you have the proper XLR headphone cable, should you do this?  While the rewards IMO are well worth the effort if you have a really good DAC with digital volume control (bandwidth down to 0Hz, maximum dynamic range, ultimate detail and nuance even at whisper levels, lightning speed and articulation, dead quiet noise floor with no amplifier hum or hiss) I would advise those who are contemplating this "direct to DAC" way of listening to music to really do their homework.  I would absolutely not do it with a tube DAC like the Nagra as you will likely harm your DAC.  Ideally, the output impedance of your DAC should be lower than the input impedance of your headphone and if it is, you should be safe.  My experience has been that as long as your impedance mismatch is reasonably small (within 25%), your DAC should be fine.  You might also check with your DAC manufacturer in case something does go wrong, that way you have a leg to stand on if you have to send your DAC in for service.  When I decided to try this with my Bricasti M1, Brian Zolner, Bricasti's president gave me his blessing.  Vincent Brient had been advocating this feature for some time with his TotalDac and so it was a foregone conclusion that I would do this when I bought my TotalDac monobloc.  While Rob Watts was not fond of this idea at all (connecting via XLR), he at least said his DAC wouldn't get harmed and sure enough, this is a wonderful way to listen to the DAVE for certain situations that warrant it (ie Abyss). With only SE outputs, the MSB Analog may be the exception but it would appear to me that the other MSBs lend themselves to this type of connection with the right headphone.