MSB Analog DAC? (Review p3)

[dan.gheorghe]

  Wow Ross, looking good ! To clarify no-one has heard the 2nd gen Renderer not even MSB as it is nowhere near finalised yet. I am hoping that an endpoint for Roon will be part of its feature set. When do you expect to receive the Quad USB? According to the user manual it seems we will need the 5V power line attached.
 
I am still waiting on the Select, last update was it will be shipping by Christmas, I hope that does't mean on Christmas Eve 

 
 
I have sold my Nagra but the new owner has agreed to let me hold onto it until the Select arrives. Have you thought of putting the Analog on some footers like these 
 
http://www.blackravioli.com/products/big-pad/ I use them under the CAT they need some experimentation with positioning to get the best results. Do not place them under the clocks or outputs.

Indeed, I have tested that myself and also been informed by Larry that it needs it and it's not actually good for the module to insert a usb cable without the 5v line.
 
This is why quad usb module improves with a usb LPS for the 5v.

 

[isquirrel]

 
Yes, the Network Renderer has huge potential. Waiting for that myself to test the Analog DAC with.

Ross that will be the V1 Renderer you will be getting, how long do you have the MSB for?

 

[Yoga]

 
Ross that will be the V1 Renderer you will be getting, how long do you have the MSB for?

I have no idea actually, at least for a couple of weeks after the Quad USB gets here (apparently next month). I'll re-loan when the Network Renderer is released.

 

[ccschua]

 
Ross that will be the V1 Renderer you will be getting, how long do you have the MSB for?

is their a V2 Renderer ?

 

[isquirrel]

  is their a V2 Renderer ?

Not yet, spec has not been finalised so its some way off.

 

[astrostar59]

Well with the amount of non-sense I read every day, I am less and less surprised by random statements... The UmtPlus/i2s/ Signature V is the most (goose bumps level) realistic sounding DAC stack I ever heard at length. I did hear the Select too but that was in show conditions. I had the Sig V for 2-3 months now and it still impresses me every day. I guess you could call it analogic sounding, and while it has that, it is better imo (clearer, more resolving and precise) than any analogic rig I have heard. Where the Signature betters the Analog stack is that it manages to be both more resolving and more natural (as in you are there and the music is real) at the same time. That is what the big bucks buy. It is difficult to imagine how the Diamond and Select would sound heard properly at home, but sadly they are very likely even better.

What the MSB are not is very coloured sounding as some other DACs out there. They do not try to mimic lush tube sound for example, but sound realistic as in having your own private concert at home. I cannot ask for better.

Negura, were you going to try to demo or hear a TotalDAC Dual, I think I read post a while back? I am wondering, and I have no idea as I haven't heard an MSB DAC, so shoot me down if required. You have a tube amp right for your headphones, the Eddie Current 2A3? I am wondering if having tubes somewhere in the mix works best for a top tier DAC. I am coming to understand that as DACs get better, and move up the quality levels, you get more of everything. And that equates to more detail and treble energy (albeit in control and a smooth level of detail). If a system is SS right through, I am thinking it could all just be too much unless it is a really good full class A amplifier.
 
I also think the recent surge of niche small manufacturers making high end DACs that shake the tree so to speak is great. And of course, like TotalDAC or Schlit Audio, this misses out a lot of markup (in theory). I would really like to know how a TotalDAC Dual shaped up to the MSB V Signature. Maybe both are great DACs, but which one would create the biggest illusion of real music, as opposed to 'damb good' hifi. I am betting the TotalDAC, but I have simply NO idea.
 
Getting a handle on the sonic level of any high end DAC IMO requires a home session in your own system and playing track you know really well. Hifi shows kill me, they play impressive simply mic'd tracks nobody recognises, it is almost pointless. Even a demo with your own headphones at a show has issues as it is rushed and there are distractions. The Senn boys are the best for that with the Orpheus, only playing piped tracks at a set level, a joke IMO. What are they scared of?

 

[negura]

I would consider getting a very capable solid state amplifier anytime. I do have a preference for pure/high bias class A. It so happens I've yet found one that is more capable than the EC I have right now. Obviously with tubes there is the advantage (and expense) one can tune the sound for particular preferences and could compensate for certain transducers flaws (to an extent).
 
The Signature V betters the Analog DAC in realism, you are there perception - there's no doubt about it. And I would even say the MSB Transport is also a must (for either DACs) - the combination is that good when used over I2S. In other connectivities it's less impressive.

 

[rexlee]

Merry X'mas!
 
I have a question about the volume control. Can anyone comment on the effect of VC on the SQ? 
 
Recently, I am struggling to get a refurbished MSB analog dac which has no VC and comes with the Wifi controller instead. 
 
I wonder how much it may affect the SQ or say the operation convenience. 
 
BTW, I plan to use it with my Macbook pro and BHSE-009.
 
Cheers,
Li

 

[dan.gheorghe]

  Merry X'mas!
 
I have a question about the volume control. Can anyone comment on the effect of VC on the SQ? 
 
Recently, I am struggling to get a refurbished MSB analog dac which has no VC and comes with the Wifi controller instead. 
 
I wonder how much it may affect the SQ or say the operation convenience. 
 
BTW, I plan to use it with my Macbook pro and BHSE-009.
 
Cheers,
Li

Merry Christmas!
 
I have tested the analog dac with volume control against some preamplifiers. Can't say that the volume control impressed me too much. It kind of takes away details and dynamics, but it's not bad overall. It's good but, not excellent. 
 
However, the volume control circuit should't influence the sound quality compared to analog dac units that doesn't have it installed. I have asked Larry directly, and this was his answer:
 

To answer your questions,
 
Yes, 0 db bypasses, and interestingly you should know that both DACs have the volume control circuit  included, so at 0 db they are both virtually identical.

 
 

 

[rexlee]

  Merry Christmas!
 
I have tested the analog dac with volume control against some preamplifiers. Can't say that the volume control impressed me too much. It kind of takes away details and dynamics, but it's not bad overall. It's good but, not excellent. 
 
However, the volume control circuit should't influence the sound quality compared to analog dac units that doesn't have it installed. I have asked Larry directly, and this was his answer:
 
 
 

Thank you, Dan. It is great to know from the user. 

 

[ccschua]

the power supply for preamp will influence the sound. I believe the desktop based power supply will not be upto mark for the job.
 
I am expecting my linear power supply soon.

 

[astrostar59]

What Linear supply have you bought? I have ordered an HDPlex for my Mac Mini inc the conversion to 12V DC from Uptone Audio. It is supped to clean things up nicely. Good luck with your PS and I am thinking it will be a nice upgrade for you.

 

[ccschua]

its a linear power supply using discreet components with no regulators. I believe linear regulators are suitable for digital circuits and low power. it is quite similar to Dan's unit too.
 
I wonder if anyone is using the ProI2S (Green). the connection seems to be the same as Ethernet I2S.

 

[isquirrel]

Happy New Year to you all, I thought it was time I posted about the MSB Select II I have here, mine has been delayed and won't be here until the 3rd week of this month. Have also been playing with different music servers, the CAD CAT and the Aurender W20. The Select I have on loan only has 2 inputs I2S and Quad USB, I have been using USB with the Select and playing around with AES, Optical & USB on the Nagra out of the Aurender.The Aurender W20 is about 2 years old and the USB output is average at best, after talking with Romaz it seems the later ones have had their boards updated tot he same as the N10 etc and are much better, so for now the CAD CAT USB is being used into the Select.
 
First up the system has the following components:
 
Source's:  Computer Audio Designs CAT & Aurender W20 & Mac Pro (Optical) both the CAT and the Mac are using Roon V1.1 build 88 64bit
 
DAC's:      MSB Select II DAC & Nagra HD DAC - balanced outputs on both
 
AMP:        Woo 234 customs
 
Tubes:      Tung Sol RP 6SN7's, Elrog (New Release) 300B's, Takatsuki 274B
 
Cabling:    DHC Silver Spore 4 & Curious  
 
Photos:     I have the display of the Select to Auto Off
 

 

 

[Johnny Moondog]

Looking forward to this! The W20 and Nagra HD are my current Source DAC combo. Am hoping to audition the Select II in January. Had not heard about upgrading the W20's USB board, and will consider this my hot tip for the day!