[Schopenhauer]

The AD is only 2-5% away from the AP but the difference seems like more when we are talking about a headphone that gets vocals done absolutely perfect and is just so enjoyable with all types of music

I'm curious as to whether there's an argument to be made for owning both the AD and the AP. For example, is there anything the AD does better than the AP? I've only heard the AD but I'm nonetheless smitten. (Really, I'm probably asking for someone to justify my getting the AP outright without waiting for an upgrade).

 

[TheChillburger]

  I'm curious as to whether there's an argument to be made for owning both the AD and the AP. For example, is there anything the AD does better than the AP? I've only heard the AD but I'm nonetheless smitten. (Really, I'm probably asking for someone to justify my getting the AP outright without waiting for an upgrade).

I dunno, I have tried both and I'm still very happy to own my Dogs. The Prime definitely has more of a treble presence than the Dog, but there's something nice and laidback when I come back to the original. Maybe it's just me not wanting to drop another $400 on another headphone, though

 

[Schopenhauer]

 

  I'm curious as to whether there's an argument to be made for owning both the AD and the AP. For example, is there anything the AD does better than the AP? I've only heard the AD but I'm nonetheless smitten. (Really, I'm probably asking for someone to justify my getting the AP outright without waiting for an upgrade).

I dunno, I have tried both and I'm still very happy to own my Dogs. The Prime definitely has more of a treble presence than the Dog, but there's something nice and laidback when I come back to the original. Maybe it's just me not wanting to drop another $400 on another headphone, though

If there's an increased presence in the upper treble, I could see reason for maybe owning both. The AD might be improved by a boost in the "air" frequencies. Listening to "Lostus" on Preghost's Ghost Story makes me think this. That can sacrifice intimacy, however, and so the AD's meet that demand. I worry a boost in the upper mids to lower treble would result in glare.

 

[TheChillburger]

  If there's an increased presence in the upper treble, I could see reason for maybe owning both. The AD might be improved by a boost in the "air" frequencies. Listening to "Lostus" on Preghost's Ghost Story makes me think this. That can sacrifice intimacy, however, and so the AD's meet that demand. I worry a boost in the upper mids to lower treble would result in glare.

I think the glare would probably depend a lot on the gear you run into the headphones. Best to try them both yourself somehow and make the judgement. I've been very surprised at some headphones that I've loved / hated after coming in with my preconceived notions of sound signature. 

 

[Schopenhauer]

 

  If there's an increased presence in the upper treble, I could see reason for maybe owning both. The AD might be improved by a boost in the "air" frequencies. Listening to "Lostus" on Preghost's Ghost Story makes me think this. That can sacrifice intimacy, however, and so the AD's meet that demand. I worry a boost in the upper mids to lower treble would result in glare.

I think the glare would probably depend a lot on the gear you run into the headphones. Best to try them both yourself somehow and make the judgement. I've been very surprised at some headphones that I've loved / hated after coming in with my preconceived notions of sound signature. 

I agree that much would depend on upstream gear. As it stands, I don't own anything I think would correct for pronounced glare if the APwere to suffer from it. Neither do I think I have anything that would provoke glare in the AP.

 

[Ableza]

The AD is only 2-5% away from the AP but the difference seems like more when we are talking about a headphone that gets vocals done absolutely perfect and is just so enjoyable with all types of music

I think it's more like 23.5%...
 
Statistics like this are completely ridiculous.  How can you put a percentage of improvement on a subjective criteria?  You can't.

 

[wahsmoh]

  I think it's more like 23.5%...
 
Statistics like this are completely ridiculous.  How can you put a percentage of improvement on a subjective criteria?  You can't.

Our brains must have connected to each others via long distance telepathy. I was thinking of this issue when I woke up. You can't really put a measure on subjective performance. Just like I think 23.5% is absurdly high for measuring a headphone that I could tell was cut from the same cloth as the Alpha Dog. Still the 2-5% felt more reasonable to me considering the overall balance of the sound was still pretty close to the same, just a larger soundstage that felt more "distant" but not less detailed or involving just wider.

 

[Ableza]

 
Our brains must have connected to each others via long distance telepathy. I was thinking of this issue when I woke up. You can't really put a measure on subjective performance. Just like I think 23.5% is absurdly high for measuring a headphone that I could tell was cut from the same cloth as the Alpha Dog. Still the 2-5% felt more reasonable to me considering the overall balance of the sound was still pretty close to the same, just a larger soundstage that felt more "distant" but not less detailed or involving just wider.

To me, the Alpha Dog is significantly better sounding and more enjoyable than the Mad Dog and also better than my HD650, and the Alpha Prime is better and more enjoyable than the Alpha Dog.  Percentages and psychoacoustic impressions are too subjective and personal and have no meaning to anyone else.  Just know that I think it's better, and if you can, give it a try for yourself.  That's what matters, IMO.

 

[wahsmoh]

To me, the Alpha Dog is significantly better sounding and more enjoyable than the Mad Dog and also better than my HD650, and the Alpha Prime is better and more enjoyable than the Alpha Dog.  Percentages and psychoacoustic impressions are too subjective and personal and have no meaning to anyone else.  Just know that I think it's better, and if you can, give it a try for yourself.  That's what matters, IMO.

We can both agree though the AP is the better headphone. 2-5% though would be an accurate measure for me to describe the measure of difference between the two. Anything higher and I feel I would be exaggerating these subtle changes. The 2-5% is really all that the AD was missing though IMO. This small percent is the 3 dimensional space that seems to have grown when you put on the headphones, L-R, T-B separation is where I noticed the biggest changes. I felt the depth of soundstage was similar though between both headphones. Lower distortion and more textural detail is what I received when I heard them side by side, both headphones were equipped with Norne Vanquish cables which may have narrowed the playing field. The AP scaled further than the AD and that's all I needed to know before I spend more money.

 

[greenkiwi]

I'm curious as to whether there's an argument to be made for owning both the AD and the AP. For example, is there anything the AD does better than the AP? I've only heard the AD but I'm nonetheless smitten. (Really, I'm probably asking for someone to justify my getting the AP outright without waiting for an upgrade).

I would think that they would be a little too close in sound signature to warrant having both. Would that extra money maybe provide more enjoyment with a totally different headphone?

 

[wahsmoh]

I would think that they would be a little too close in sound signature to warrant having both. Would that extra money maybe provide more enjoyment with a totally different headphone?

Makes more sense to buy one or the other and save the $400 towards a new DAC, amp, or maybe Hifiman HE-400i(would be a great open headphone to compliment AD/AP).
 
I also feel the need to hear the HE-560i again.. people keep talking about the new Focus pads and grill modifications but when I heard the stock HE-560 the first time I felt the voicing was completely off and tonally it was shrill compared the the Alpha Dog.  I am not going to give up on open planars just yet!!

 

[Douger333]

I own both AD and AP...  I am a completist to the extent of my ability and I enjoy both very much. First, from the sound of it there may not be
an upgrade program ongoing, it apparently is a difficult operation. Secondly I like the AD for rock and any music that does not include important air and soundstage, but it is great to have the Primes when that is important!

 

[Schopenhauer]

  I own both AD and AP...  I am a completist to the extent of my ability and I enjoy both very much. First, from the sound of it there may not be
an upgrade program ongoing, it apparently is a difficult operation. Secondly I like the AD for rock and any music that does not include important air and soundstage, but it is great to have the Primes when that is important!

I'd be very sad to hear that an upgrade program is no go. 

 

[Douger333]

You are not alone... In the Mr. Speakers Alpha Prime thread Dan explains that the door is not closed, but on indefinite hold due to a 75%
failure rate.

 

[Schopenhauer]

  You are not alone... In the Mr. Speakers Alpha Prime thread Dan explains that the door is not closed, but on indefinite hold due to a 75%
failure rate.

Wow. In that case, it would be understandable if the failure rate couldn't be dramatically lowered.