[sunneebear]

It's a unwritten fact that orthos require at least 15 watts.  100 watts is acceptable. 

 

[sugarshark]

  The way you put it as "earned the right" shows that you are missing my point.
 
The audiophile terminology for what I am talking about is "high end" and "mid-fi".   Someone who just listens to music casually - 99% of people - will actually find that mid-fi gear sounds better to them.
 
However, most people don't even use mid-fi gear.  They use the Apple ear buds with their iPod, or their iPod in those little iPod cradles with two little cheap speakers.   So, if you let them listen to high-end gear, they will find it sounds better.   But they won't think that Alpha Dogs sound better than Sennheiser HD598 or AT M50.

 
I'm aware of that terminology, although they're subjective terms - there isn't a distinct line between the two.
 
I guess in general you're probably right ..
 
But In this specific instance I stand by my earlier claims. The essence stx was outclassed by M51+C162 and very much appreciated by a casual listener, hence my recommendation.
 
I don't think it's just the amp stage in the STX. At the end of the day it's built to a price, and it wouldn't even make it to mid fi territory imho.
 
It does have it's place though- when playing BF4 I'm not really worried about reaching the pinnacle of sonic excellence

 

[kstuart]

 

  First, replying to the replyier - I would say that the Essence ST(X) DAC section is good enough, but the amplifier section is not good enough for most planar headphones.  So, you would need an amplifier.   (The new Schiit Vali was released today ($119), but no one (such as I) has received a production model, so you ought to wait a few days for a Vali-with-Alpha-Dog review to appear.)

 
This is the amp in the sound card:
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/slos431/slos431.pdf
 
If I am reading that doc right, it says it delivers 1.2W @ 32 ohms (page 8, lower left graph). The Schiit Vali delivers 1.2W @ 32 ohms.
 
What makes one amp better then the other for the AD's?

There is always this difference between visual perceptions and audible perceptions.
 
You can take a picture with a $20,000 camera and take the same picture with a $200 camera, and you can then blow up the two images and point to the differences. (It's even possible to do that in a Forum thread).   You can try to do the same thing with audible differences, but the directness is missing.  The other person would have to get the exact same song, and then go to 3:24 in it and listen to the kettle drum.   They rarely do that (note that 90% of people never go to links in forum posts) - in fact, it would require having the same song, and if some of their equipment is not up to the same level, it might obscure the difference.
 
So, I know techie guys who spend hundreds of hours tweaking their video player to remove largely invisible tiny blurring, and then loudly insist that two amps with the same specs must sound exactly the same.   Because you can point to a visual difference...

 

[JeremyR]

  So, I know techie guys who spend hundreds of hours tweaking their video player to remove largely invisible tiny blurring, and then loudly insist that two amps with the same specs must sound exactly the same.   Because you can point to a visual difference...

 
I wasn't questioning if they sound the same. I suspect dozens of factors go into an Amp that effect the quality of the sound. You just said my sound card could not drive my headphones properly. It looks like the watt output are the same (actually less on the Vali if I am reading things right), so I was wondering what else goes into an Amp to "drive" headphones. More of a question to educate me, not to question you.

 

[kstuart]

 

  So, I know techie guys who spend hundreds of hours tweaking their video player to remove largely invisible tiny blurring, and then loudly insist that two amps with the same specs must sound exactly the same.   Because you can point to a visual difference...

 
I wasn't questioning if they sound the same. I suspect dozens of factors go into an Amp that effect the quality of the sound. You just said my sound card could not drive my headphones properly. It looks like the watt output are the same (actually less on the Vali if I am reading things right), so I was wondering what else goes into an Amp to "drive" headphones. More of a question to educate me, not to question you.

You are projecting - you are the first to use "drive".
 
I stated: "I would say that the Essence ST(X) DAC section is good enough, but the amplifier section is not good enough for most planar headphones.  So, you would need an amplifier."

 

[koiloco]

  You are projecting - you are the first to use "drive".
 
I stated: "I would say that the Essence ST(X) DAC section is good enough, but the amplifier section is not good enough for most planar headphones.  So, you would need an amplifier."

@kstuart,  just drop it.  You are not going to get anywhere with this one. 

 

[JeremyR]

  @kstuart,  just drop it.  You are not going to get anywhere with this one. 

 

 
I asked a question so I could learn from you guys, and these are the answers I get? I am projecting, and just drop it because you can't get anywhere with this one?
 
Wow, thanks guys for the warm welcome. So far you're not helping the stereotype that audiophiles are pretentious. Good thing there are others here to help you out in that regard.

 

[C.C.S.]

Ignore them. There are other people here in this thread who will probably be more helpful than that. I dunno what their deal is right now.

 

[koiloco]

   
I asked a question so I could learn from you guys, and these are the answers I get? I am projecting, and just drop it because you can't get anywhere with this one?
 
Wow, thanks guys for the warm welcome. So far you're not helping the stereotype that audiophiles are pretentious. Good thing there are others here to help you out in that regard.

There's a difference between "projecting" and out right twisting other people's words and misunderstood.  Let's chalk this off to miscommunication, shall we?
My apology if your intention was pure.  Posts can be misread quite badly.

 

[aamefford]

@koiloco, @jeremyr, please take it to pm. Thank you.

Edited for politeness...

 

[JeremyR]

  There's a difference between "projecting" and out right twisting other people's words and misunderstood.  Let's chalk this off to miscommunication, shall we?
My apology if your intention was pure.  Posts can be misread quite badly.

 
Sounds good

 

[koiloco]

@koiloco, @jeremyr, please take it to pm. Thank you.

Edited for politeness...

Let me guess ....  
 
Sorry aamefford.  We're all good.  Just a little misunderstanding.

 

[mechgamer123]

Christ, sorry you had such a rough welcome to the audiophool world Jeremy.
I haven't heard your sound card, nor do I have the ADs anymore (I only had a tour set), but based on my logic of driving the Mad Dogs (approximately the same power requirements as the ADs) with my $15 Asus Xonar DG, that card will probably be fine to drive the ADs. Will it be ideal for driving the ADs? Probably not, but I can't say without hearing them.
I'll just say this: Personally, I generally think your number one most expensive component should be your headphones, followed by your amp/dac/whatever. If you wanna spend $600 and get the ADs and eventually get a better amp, you'll probably enjoy the ADs now and then enjoy them even more when you get a better amp.
 
It doesn't take "golden ears" to hear the differences between hi-fi headphones and mid-fi headphones, just a little bit of effort and attention to detail. I remember it took me about two weeks of listening before I really started to appreciate my first "decent" headphones, and I've been discovering more and more the more I move up. It's not rocket science.

 

[aamefford]

Let me guess ....  

Sorry aamefford.  We're all good.  Just a little misunderstanding.

I was being even more of a dink and thought a bit better (just a bit). Must be cranky out tonight - me included.

Back to those Alphas! I think mine show up in a week or so, along with a Burson Soloist SL that I probably don't need but couldn't pass up. Add in my HIFI-M8, and it should be a fun holiday season.

Jeremyr, anyone said "sorry about your wallet" yet?

 

[koiloco]

I was being even more of a dink and thought a bit better (just a bit). Must be cranky out tonight - me included.

Back to those Alphas! I think mine show up in a week or so, along with a Burson Soloist SL that I probably don't need but couldn't pass up. Add in my HIFI-M8, and it should be a fun holiday season.

Jeremyr, anyone said "sorry about your wallet" yet?

You got it right.  Work has been rough for last couple weeks.  Anyway, that aside, you are the first one to say that to Jeremyr.
 
@Jeremyr, you seem to be willing to spend if it makes sense and quality is there.  AD is already a very good pair of HPs.  While your sound card is not a bad one at all for computer's audio purpose at all, I would strongly suggest going for an external DAC and a decent amp.  I have a very high end sound card in my computer since I built it couple years back.  In my experience, the difference was nite and day.  Btw, what is your budget if you are looking into DAC an amp for your AD?