[wh01sjongalt]

No, not that one! FYI, RAM labs just won a Brutus award from Positive Feedback for their EL34 paired with the Blue Hawaii and VOCE headphone.

http://www.ramlabs-musicreference.com

Yes I know they weren't what you meant. I did find the Ram Labs you were referencing eventually, but I already bought a $379 quad from NOS EL34 (Blue Grade) Mesaboogie tubes before I did. I can't see much difference between the Ram Labs NOS Siemans EL34 and the NOS 450 Siemans that Mesa-boogie is selling, but by all means correct me! Here's the link: http://mesaboogie.com/tubes/power-tubes/NOS-EL-34-STR-450-siemens.html

They look identical!

 

[headinclouds]

In connection with the Brutus Award, David Robinson says “I can say that the VOCE + Blue Hawaii is pure delight” (in his case the Headamp Blue Hawaii SE). We’re definitely on the same page here.

Today I had a very pleasant experience; a fellow head-fier brought his 009S and for an hour or so I was able to hear them and the Voce on my KG Grounded Grid and Blue Hawaii. All combinations were very fine. My immediate view is that the 009S is an improvement on the 009 and closer now to the tonality of the Voce. I thought both were great. Don't rush to think that I am going to spend £3895 on 009S though!


Edit; or even - don't think that I am going to rush to spend £3895 on 009S though!

 

[mrspeakers]

And for funsies here's the award...

 

[mrspeakers]

And ANOTHER Best Open Headphone award, this from Headfonics here...

 

[mrspeakers]

Deleted

 

[Bill13]

I'm thinking about purchasing MrSpeakers VOCE electrostatic headphones.
Motivated by the reviews reporting VOCE's great sound quality.

However, I have a couple of concerns.
1. I understand that MrSpeakers uses Mylar diaphragms.
Having previously owned failed electrostatic speakers (including Sound Labs model A3), I am wary about electrostatic driver Mylar plastic diaphragms losing tension over time, resulting in noise when diaphragm hits, or even sticks, to the stators.
If an electrostatic driver's diaphragm loses its tension, the driver eventually stops working.

I have several pair of STAX electrostatic headphones which, so far, have been mostly reliable (presumably due to STAX's proprietary 'engineered plastic' driver diaphragms and stator construction.
2. I am puzzled why MrSpeakers apparently doesn't use so-called "engineered plastics" diaphragm material reportedly not as susceptible to stretching compared to Mylar -- like STAX has been using for many years now. Is there a new version of thin Mylar material or a treatment process that maintains diaphragm tension --- maintains tension as well as the proprietary thin plastic membrane used by STAX?

Perhaps MrSpeakers' VOCE maintains diaphragm tension, indefinitely, by using some kind of 'secret sauce' (such as a clever tensioning mechanism to continuously pull on the circular edge of the VOCE Mylar diaphragm
- so that there's no reason to worry about VOCE driver longevity?

Hopefully, a customer should have no concern about loosing tension of the large VOCE 88mm diaphragm for many years, or even for decades?

What is the MrSpeakers VOCE headphone warranty concerning the possibility of VOCE driver diaphragm failure?

After MrSpeakers VOCE headphone warranty expires, what would be the charge to the customer to replace/repair or re-tension VOCE drivers?

I hope MrSpeakers can assure me that I should not be overly concerned about VOCE reliability (?)
BTW, I have the Ether headphones and they appear to be well built.

Thanks,

Bill

 

[VandyMan]

I am puzzled why MrSpeakers apparently doesn't use so-called "engineered plastics" diaphragm material

I think the way that STAX uses the term is just marketing bs. It may be that the diaphragms of STAX headphones are better, but don't base that judgement just on that one broad term. You need to compare the properties of the specific material and how it is treated and used.

BTW, I'm pretty sure that mylar (BoPET) is an "engineered plastic."

 

[mrspeakers]

What plastic ISN'T engineered? Pure marketing, IMHO.

And yes, we treat our drivers in a proprietary process we developed to maintain tension over time.

 

[Bill13]

Thanks for the replies about MrSpeakers VOCE diaphragm.

As a prospective VOCE buyer, could you tell me what it might cost for replacement of a VOCE driver after the factory warranty expires? Perhaps such a problem is unlikely, but I still would like to know what the factory policy might be on this new headphone.
Does the electrostatic VOCE make any noise when you place the headphones on your head (on-ear air pressure initially causes diaphragm to hit the stators like the famous STAX 'fart')?

 

[Bill13]

Will MrSpeakers VOCE be at the Feb 2019 NYC 'Canjam' ? - maybe I could hear them at that time - I don't know if there's a VOCE dealer nearby for an audition ...

 

[mrspeakers]

Thanks for the replies about MrSpeakers VOCE diaphragm.

As a prospective VOCE buyer, could you tell me what it might cost for replacement of a VOCE driver after the factory warranty expires? Perhaps such a problem is unlikely, but I still would like to know what the factory policy might be on this new headphone.
Does the electrostatic VOCE make any noise when you place the headphones on your head (on-ear air pressure initially causes diaphragm to hit the stators like the famous STAX 'fart')?

We don't have pricing yet, but our general policy is always to keep service costs low. We've only had a couple of VOCEs even need a repair...

Sure, the diaphragms contact the stator, but the stator is insulated so there's no arcing. We've yet to experience a diaphragm failure. These should last a long time.

 

[headinclouds]

Bill, you say you are worried about Mylar plastic diaphragms losing tension over time, but I was under the impression that Stax used mylar diaphragms until relatively recently. I thought the change came with the introduction of the SR009. Perhaps someone can confirm that old Stax diaphragms are mylar?

There must be many thousands of these old diaphragms still working well. I have an early Stax 007Mk1 which has not shown any bad behaviour.

Further to your view that the Stax "engineering plastic" is not trouble prone, Stax suffered a lot of channel balance problems with the 009 in the first year or so and it was believed to be problems with the new "engineering plastic" diaphragm. If someone has actual evidence that I am wrong in this belief, I will be interested to know of it.

Whatever the cause of the problems Stax did seem to overcome them and later 009 were consistent.

 

[bearwarrior]

I'm thinking about purchasing MrSpeakers VOCE electrostatic headphones.
Motivated by the reviews reporting VOCE's great sound quality.

However, I have a couple of concerns.
1. I understand that MrSpeakers uses Mylar diaphragms.
Having previously owned failed electrostatic speakers (including Sound Labs model A3), I am wary about electrostatic driver Mylar plastic diaphragms losing tension over time, resulting in noise when diaphragm hits, or even sticks, to the stators.
If an electrostatic driver's diaphragm loses its tension, the driver eventually stops working.

I have several pair of STAX electrostatic headphones which, so far, have been mostly reliable (presumably due to STAX's proprietary 'engineered plastic' driver diaphragms and stator construction.
2. I am puzzled why MrSpeakers apparently doesn't use so-called "engineered plastics" diaphragm material reportedly not as susceptible to stretching compared to Mylar -- like STAX has been using for many years now. Is there a new version of thin Mylar material or a treatment process that maintains diaphragm tension --- maintains tension as well as the proprietary thin plastic membrane used by STAX?

Perhaps MrSpeakers' VOCE maintains diaphragm tension, indefinitely, by using some kind of 'secret sauce' (such as a clever tensioning mechanism to continuously pull on the circular edge of the VOCE Mylar diaphragm
- so that there's no reason to worry about VOCE driver longevity?

Hopefully, a customer should have no concern about loosing tension of the large VOCE 88mm diaphragm for many years, or even for decades?

What is the MrSpeakers VOCE headphone warranty concerning the possibility of VOCE driver diaphragm failure?

After MrSpeakers VOCE headphone warranty expires, what would be the charge to the customer to replace/repair or re-tension VOCE drivers?

I hope MrSpeakers can assure me that I should not be overly concerned about VOCE reliability (?)
BTW, I have the Ether headphones and they appear to be well built.

Thanks,

Bill

Please check some terms called elastic deformation and plastic deformation. The movement of headphone diaphragm is within the elastic region. The deformation over time is called fatigue, which is categorized as plastic deformation. Don't worry about the tension and deformation of the diaphragm. The only possible ways to damage the driver can be too much voltage or piercing with the sharp. I believe this is also the principle to choose the diaphragm when the companies design them. If I remembered correctly, VOCE delayed quite a well due to the mechanical testing of the driver and driver consistency. But it is good to ask before the purchase. I will do the same if I don't know this.

We don't have pricing yet, but our general policy is always to keep service costs low. We've only had a couple of VOCEs even need a repair...

Sure, the diaphragms contact the stator, but the stator is insulated so there's no arcing. We've yet to experience a diaphragm failure. These should last a long time.

I don't see the warranty information of VOCE on the website. Is it 2-year, the same as Ether series? Thanks!

 

[mrspeakers]

Yes it's 2 year warranty on VOCE.

My understanding was the 009 driver imbalance issue was due to the charge carrier on the diaphragm being damaged and no longer holding the bias voltage. This is not related to the Mylar.

 

[headinclouds]

Ah that's very interesting and I'd not heard of it, thanks.

BTW Congratulations on all these awards. You'll need a big office to get them on the walls.