[musicmind]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif These days I also use mine mostly with speakers - it powers some small B&W speakers in my office.

Skylab, I recall you were using the MP-301 with your speakers as well and its also rated at 5W. Any noticable difference between the MP-301 and Ming-da when doing speaker duties?
I assume from your rankings in your amp review thread, that the Ming-da is your prefered amp esp with high impedance cans.

Thanks again

 

[Skylab]

Quote:

Originally Posted by musicmind /img/forum/go_quote.gif Skylab, I recall you were using the MP-301 with your speakers as well and its also rated at 5W. Any noticable difference between the MP-301 and Ming-da when doing speaker duties? I assume from your rankings in your amp review thread, that the Ming-da is your prefered amp esp with high impedance cans. Thanks again

Both worked fine with small speakers - no real massive differences driving speakers that I could detect. But I do think the Ming-Da is the better headphone amp when used with high-impedance headphones, yes.

 

[moodyrn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linyanti /img/forum/go_quote.gif I am definitely not pushing these speakers as the ones to get but they work for me. I had a wonderful set of Thiels but our new place could not handle giant floor standing speakers. I got the Infinity Model Three V only because they were small enough and look cool. Infinity - Home Audio If you are serious then there is no reason why you could not put the Ming Da (already burned in on headphones, remember it is all class A (I think) so it is always on full power regardless of load), an ipod, 3.5 mm cable and speaker wire with spade lugs on the ends in the box the Ming Da came in and take it down to your hi-fi store and plug it into some speakers. Regardless of the outcome it would be fun and also maybe blow the minds of the salespeople.

No wonder you didn't have great success using it as a speaker amp. Remember, as a speaker amp this thing needs to be used with"efficient speakers". Those things have a sensitivity of *87dbs*. Those require much more than the 5 watts the ming da is providing. Just because they are small bookshelf type doesn't mean it's going to drive them. I have some psb towers with three 6.5 inch drivers, and it pushes those to decent levels, but those have an in room response of 94dbs. It's all about the efficiency of your speakers, not the size.

 

[Linyanti]

Quote:

Originally Posted by moodyrn /img/forum/go_quote.gif No wonder you didn't have great success using it as a speaker amp. Remember, as a speaker amp this thing needs to be used with"efficient speakers". Those things have a sensitivity of *87dbs*. Those require much more than the 5 watts the ming da is providing. Just because they are small bookshelf type doesn't mean it's going to drive them. I have some psb towers with three 6.5 inch drivers, and it pushes those to decent levels, but those have an in room response of 94dbs. It's all about the efficiency of your speakers, not the size.

You are absolutely correct about the speakers but these are really just part of my mid-fi system that has a Parasound Halo A23 power amp. I just reran the cables on a lark and never switched back.

This is sort of a psychoacoustic topic for another forum but we all know that certain frequencies and harmonic orders can bug us or please us out of proportion to the sound pressure they have. The way that scratches and pops on vinyl may not be as annoying as a hard sounding CD.

My guess why I do not want to switch back is that Hollywood may be jazzing up the movies and shows with lots of stuff that a weak tube amp with inefficient speakers cannot reproduce. The original plan for my system had been to use this setup for video and also music (sometimes loud) but I was never able to actually listen to good loud music because of complaints from my kids. (who would have ever thought that being possible. this would not have happened back in Mad Men days) Consequently, it was never used for music much. Perhaps the anemic low frequency portrayal makes the actual drama more engrossing for me. The best cinematic music sequence with the Parasound amp for me is the Flight of the Valkaries in Apocolypse Now but nothing compares to dialogue from tubes for Burton and Taylor in Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf or the outstanding soliloquy of Poitier in Raisin in the Sun. But the characteristics of the sound are not at all like what a low powered solid state amp would produce or equalizing my parasound amp. The tubes do something magical.

There are two reasons that I may not get different speakers. I already have a mid-fi amp that can get me kicked out of the neighborhood with pretty good music playback. The second reason is that getting efficient speakers to use with the Ming Da may kill the Golden Goose.

There is no question that my current setup is absolutely lacking in sound dynamics. Even non-audiophiles can notice it but it sure is fun.

And this is also just the second purpose of this amp since I also use it with headphones for computer gaming and that is also the only time when I really listen to music in an attentive fashion. So it is two, two machines in one: a nice musical headphone amp and a strangely fun television amp (not really an audio system amp in my setup).

All that being said, I do have some old small Epos and NHT speakers scattered around and after your posting I may have to try them out.

Post Script: I just got in the mail two matched gold pin Mullard EL84's from Brent Jessee Audio. These have not even begun to get broken in but there does seem to be a different (excellent) level of power than the JJ Tesla's (which I really liked).

I have on Billie Holiday's "The Decca Days" and there is absolutely nothing lacking in the audio sound coming from the speakers. Since I wrote this post the topic of "sensitivity" and "efficiency" rumbled out some old memories. I used to be an avid reader of The Absolute Sound and any talk of efficiency was roundly despised. I think that it was because in the 1970's Consumer Reports would always rate loudspeakers completely on "efficiency" and "flatness".

Efficiency and sensitivity are not identical but related enough to almost use the terms interchangeably. One of the issues is that the measured efficiency and sensitivity is not one identical value across all of the frequencies produced but only one value is listed. And it may be that the efficiency and sensitivity of any given segment may or may not be important for musical quality. For example the portions of the audio that are sung by Billie may in fact be "efficient" on these speakers. Billie Holiday is closer to television audio frequency spread than let's say symphonic or rock hall music.

Here is a page that I was able to grab quickly that gives a diagram of SPL over a frequency spread. This Snell speaker has a published efficiency rating of 89dB but that is of "pink noise", something we do not listen to much. The actual SPL from each frequency is quite different.

Sound & Vision Magazine - Snell Acoustics Signature Series C7 speaker

I continue to agree that different speakers may get some fuller results and I will pull out those old speakers to experiment with but these speakers are pure alchemy with television and voice.

 

[markm1111]

Does anyone know the input impedance value?

I currently run a CIA VDA-2 dac and VAC-1 psu (output impedance 825 ohm) into a Burson Buffer AB-160 then into a CIA VHP-2 headamp with VAC-1 psu. The loop then goes into a Burson PI-160 integrated to run my Lenehan ML-1 speakers.

The buffer is in there because of the high output impedance of the dac - the input impendance of both the VHP-2 and PI-160 is 20k ohm. The desired ratio is roughly output impedance x 100 < input impedance. With 825 ohm output impedance the required input impedance is 82.5k ohm, which is quite high.

The stated input impedance of the Ming Da MC66-AE (Ming Da's other headphone amp) is 100k ohm, which is why I am hoping the MC84-C07 is the same.

I want to be able to run my AKG K702's off the VHP-2 through the buffer, but use the output switch on the VDA-2 to send to a MC84-C07 to run my Senn HD650's.

I hope that all makes sense and explains why I want to know the impedance

 

[markm1111]

Well, for those that are interested, I got it straight from the horses mouth - Jennifer at the Mei-xing factory.

Input impedance is 100k ohm, as told to her by the technicians.

Means this little beauty may be on its way to me sooner rather than later

 

[jjamo]

I am almost ready to buy this Ming Da MC84.
I almost went with Jade but Skylab's review says Ming Da has more tubey lush sound and I love tubey sound.

I am upgrading from LD MKIII so I was wondering if anybody can compare MKIII vs Ming Da?

Also, where is the best place to purchase this Ming Da? I know Pacific Valve is selling in US but I could get it directly from HK about $330 - $360.
Anybody has experience with good HK stores?

Thanks.

 

[mlantinen]

Quote:

Where to get the Ming Da MC84-C07?

Got mine from a guy out of China on Ebay - lance6881888. You can check out my post on these forums regarding an volume pot issue with the amp. Also a bit difficult to understand the communication because of the language barrier. But overall I'm very satisfied with the unit. Price was $283+$99 shipping.

Incidentally, for any who may care, I finally found a decent set of speakers to pair up with this amp. The KEF Q1's sound great imho. 8 ohms and 91 dec. sensitivity. I've got them bi-wired. Yes, these speakers are alittle under powered so you need to turn the volume up abit more than when using my senns hd600's, but I don't know of any good quality bookshelf speakers that only require 5 watts. Paid $125 from Craigslist.

You could also consider the Transcendere Sweet 5 from Pacific Valve. I've seen it on clearance for around $460ish I think.

 

[Michael10]

Pacific Valve now has the Ming Da for $414 with free shipping. I paid with a cashier's check so my unit won't ship until the check clears (probably a week or so). I also e-mail Jim McShane and he recommended trying the Genalex reissue N709/EL84 and the Mullard reissue
12AX7s.

Jim was very helpful with tubes for my AR Ref1 preamp and my Cayin Headphone Amp. He did mention that he was cautious abut the current issues for the EL84 tubes. Does anyone know the tube plate and cathode voltages and the bias current for the the EL84.

I have e-mailed this question to Pacific Valve but haven't received an answer.

I now have about 10 pairs of headphones. Senn 650s, Beyer 880 and 990, K-702, and Dennon 2000s with wooden cups from Lawton.

I wanted a second tube amp and Skylab's review resulting in my selecting the Ming Da.

I have also ordered a Lavry DA11 for use in my main stereo system. I want a new SACD player but will wait. My Denon 3910 is okay but the Sony SCD-5400ES is calling me.

Finally, if anyone is looking for an inexpensive SACD player, Amazon has the Yamaha DVD-S1800 (a universial player) for $79. again with free shipping. I received one Friday and at $79 I am going to put one in both my offices and quit using the sound cards on my PCs. But I do have a lot of SACDs.

Thanks again to all of the folks here for the advice. Skylab, your reviews are excellent and I blame you for the new hole in my wallet.

 

[SP Wild]

Skylabs a real person alright. Explicitly demonstrated to me with no uncertain terms that in this hobby - buying over the counter at full retail is unwise and showed me how much savings could be had importing products (50 percent savings is a worse case scenario!). Not to mention the large range available.

This amplifier is my first on-line purchase period. Aud$300 on ebay Australia, brand new shipped from Hong Kong to Australia with the correct local voltages. Typically this would cost approx $900 (after negotiations) over the counter - not that I will be able to purchase this over the counter. I sincerely regret paying $900 for the K701 now.

If this transaction goes smoothly I anticipate a raft of spending with a severe consequence in my finances. I'll presume each dollar saved is money in the bank - hence the more I spend the more I save.

I hate you Skylab!!!

 

[markm1111]

Hi SP

I too am in Australia, and thinking about this amp. I got quoted a lot more than $300 from both the factory and a distributor, so just wondering if the amp turned up ok, is genuine, and who the seller was?

Cheers

 

[SP Wild]

Hi Mark,

I still havent received this amp. I purchased from a Hong Kong distrubutor listing as "dpihkg" in ebay Aus. I took the last one from this guy - but he may more. I asked a questioned and he replied quickly. Sorry but "genuine" and "China" does not compute.

 

[fdbf]

Hi all!

I purchased this amp from Aris488 last month.

This is my first Headphone Tube amp. (By the way, I got a Laney Lc30-II for guitar so I'm familiar with tube sound).

I want to say that Skylab's right, very warm and lush, liquid-like sound.

I changed stock tubes with TAD 7025/E83CC and TAD EL84-STR.

After tube rolling, sound acquired incredible detail, remaining warm and lush.

Definitely Tube rolling improves a lot this amp.

I'm listening to it through digital output and Zero Dac with OPA827.

I also linked it to Audio Nirvana 8'' Speakers (98 dB of sensitivity): With volume pot at 12 o'clock volumes are HIGH ENOUGH.

Good also with speakers, although I like it most as a pre for my Trend Audio TA 10.1.

Sound warmed and made soft by tubes, detailed by transistor. Excellent combination.

Bye

P.S.

Question: listening to headphone, are final tubes used, or they are used only for speakers?

 

[Linyanti]

I love this amp and have tube rolled extensively. But I just got a Beyerdynamic MMX 300 Headset. This is similar to the Beyerdynamic DT 770 except that the DT 770 has 32, 250 or 600 Ohm Impedance available but the MMX 300 only has 32 Ohm available.

I am going to write an extensive review of this headset in the PC section once I get the energy but it is excellent in many ways.

But there was a noticeable hum with the amp but not from the computer headphone out or the headphone jack from my Parasound preamp.

I purchased a Etymotic ER-4P to ER-4S adapter from HeadRoom. Great service and a nice product. I also went to ebay and bought a 75 ohm adapter from Awwan. 22 US Dollars with shipping included from Hong Kong. Ordered it on Feb 18, 2010 and it arrived March 3, 2010 (today) here in Florida. Only hassle is that it is a registered letter so I lucked out and was here to sign for it.

Both of these adapters really improve the sound. The hum was absent at the same volume levels as before. The generalization would be more of a "vinyl" sound. Vinyl can mean so many different things from smooth to veiled. The nod from me was that the Awwan adapter was better for my specific situation.

I tried both together and it really was "too much" smoothness.

If you are involved in this forum then you probably are never really "finished" with your system.

The Awwan 75 ohm adapter is just a fun device to get. It is really machined well. Sure it alters the sound frequency responses, etc. But it is fun and the sound is much better with this 32 ohm headset. I have only had this adapter for a few hours but it is bewitching. And 22 Dollars is a great price.

As would be expected, the increased impedance changes the voltage/current levels so there is not as much current going to the headphones and the amp has to be turned up higher for the same volume level. (Impedance sure confuses me. Resistance, reactance, bridging, matching. Hard to keep it all straight.)

P.S. the headset is awesome in games. I also am looking for some feedback for the AKG headsets but the feedback is either from helicopter pilots with high end gear or from gamers in the creative/logitech niche.

 

[BmWr75]

If this has already been asked......sorry. Did not read all 11 pages.

Many tube amps do not take well to not being connected to speakers. Since this amp will also drive high efficiency speakers, is there any concern if it is used only as a headphone amp? If this is not an issue, this amp is on the top of my list.