[Rowethren]

Start shipping already? Congratulation, I don't have to tell you how long I have been waiting for this good news, I am confident to say, I have been looking forward to the launch of Empyrean for a very long time, maybe longer then anyone else outside Meze. I'll check with your HK dealer to find out the availability and audition the production version ASAP.



I think this is a very good move, make the basic package simple and competitive, and let the premium user pick whatever suit them best. This is flexible and efficient, a very nice move indeed.

Sorry for the double post but to be frank if you are spending $3000 on a pair of headphones you most certainly are a premium user already! I can't help but feel significant bias from your perspective seeing as you are a manufacturer yourself! Not to sound harsh but this move just seems like a money making scheme to force people to spend extra money on unnecessary cable upgrades just because they need a different but still very common termination in order to, you know, actually use the thing they paid $3000 for!!!

 

[smodtactical]

That is my point really, it would not cost hundreds of pounds to offer an XLR cable. The plugs themselves are pretty much the same price as 3.5mm and 6.2mm and they require the same amount of soldering to install...

I am completely fine only getting 1 cable in the box as long as it is the right one for me to actually be able to use the headphones on arrival with my system at maximum potential like I could with a large number of new releases HE1KSE and Ether 2 to name a couple.

Yup, just offer XLR. Not sure why its not an option.

 

[Hifiearspeakers]

That is my point really, it would not cost hundreds of pounds to offer an XLR cable. The plugs themselves are pretty much the same price as 3.5mm and 6.2mm and they require the same amount of soldering to install...

I am completely fine only getting 1 cable in the box as long as it is the right one for me to actually be able to use the headphones on arrival with my system at maximum potential like I could with a large number of new releases HE1KSE and Ether 2 to name a couple.

You have to look at the whole package. The Ether 2 may give you more choices for cables, but you only get one set of earpads and they’re attached by an adhesive, so they’re not easy to swap out. The HEK se (and all Hifiman headphones) aren’t built anywhere near as good as the Empyrean and they also cost $3499, not $2999. I’m sure Meze will give you whatever cable you want if they charged $3499. But many on here, including me, would much rather take the more affordable $2999 price point. Again, Hifiman doesn’t give you two sets of earpads, a practical carrying case, and earpads that can be exchanged in less than 3 seconds.
It’s a trade off and I’m very happy with the choice Meze made and at the price point they’ve chosen. I can’t wait to support this company. As soon as these arrive at local dealers stateside, I’m purchasing them.

 

[smodtactical]

You have to look at the whole package. The Ether 2 may give you more choices for cables, but you only get one set of earpads and they’re attached by an adhesive, so they’re not easy to swap out. The HEK se (and all Hifiman headphones) aren’t built anywhere near as good as the Empyrean and they also cost $3499, not $2999. I’m sure Meze will give you whatever cable you want if they charged $3499. But many on here, including me, would much rather take the more affordable $2999 price point. Again, Hifiman doesn’t give you two sets of earpads, a practical carrying case, and earpads that can be exchanged in less than 3 seconds.
It’s a trade off and I’m very happy with the choice Meze made and at the price point they’ve chosen. I can’t wait to support this company. As soon as these arrive at local dealers stateside, I’m purchasing them.

First of all with all due respect the margins for all these headphones are still decent. Its not like hes producing them for 2500 and selling for $3000 (with full respect to antonio).

Secondly we are not asking for some gold accents or something. We are asking for an XLR cable INSTEAD of other cables. I'm sorry but this is not something that will cost him much at all. So with respect I don't buy your price reasoning as to why we can't have XLR. Zach gives you the option of XLR and has incredible hand made headphones.

If you are spending $3k, asking for a normal cable with XLR termination is completely reasonable.

 

[Hifiearspeakers]

First of all with all due respect the margins for all these headphones are still decent. Its not like hes producing them for 2500 and selling for $3000 (with full respect to antonio).

Secondly we are not asking for some gold accents or something. We are asking for an XLR cable INSTEAD of other cables. I'm sorry but this is not something that will cost him much at all. So with respect I don't buy your price reasoning as to why we can't have XLR. Zach gives you the option of XLR and has incredible hand made headphones.

If you are spending $3k, asking for a normal cable with XLR termination is completely reasonable.

Why not just take the lowest price point and buy whatever aftermarket cable you want? Zach makes great headphones, but all of the technology he has used has been done before (Beryllium, biocellulose, and planar).

The technology in the Meze is the first of its kind. How can you speculate on the margins of a technology that has never hit the market before? Hifiman is selling the HEK SE for $3499. And the only difference between it and the HEK is the use of stronger neodymium magnets! They have the same garbage build quality but with stronger magnets of a third succession of the same headphone and are charging $500 more!

And you’re equivocating margins with a company that has trailblazed brand new technology and a brand new idea, with far superior build quality, comfort, and accessories and is then selling them for less than the Utopia, LCD 4, LCD 4Z, HEK SE, Abyss Diana Phi, Susvara, Final D8000, and for no more than the HEK V2, Abyss Diana, and Audeze MX4!!!! And you’re going to bust their balls over a cable????

Damn.

I disagree. It’s much more expensive to innovate than to reverse engineer and/or copy.

 

[smodtactical]

Why not just take the lowest price point and buy whatever aftermarket cable you want? Zach makes great headphones, but all of the technology he has used has been done before (Beryllium, biocellulose, and planar). The technology in the Meze is the first of its kind. How can you speculate on the margins of a technology that has never hit the market before? Hifiman is selling the HEK SE for $3499. And the only difference between it and the HEK is the use of stronger neodymium magnets! They have the same garbage build quality but with stronger magnets of a third succession of the same headphone and are charging $500 more! And you’re equivocating margins with a company that has trailblazed brand new technology and a brand new idea, with far superior build quality, comfort, and accessories and is then selling them for less than the Utopia, LCD 4, LCD 4Z, HEK SE, Abyss Diana Phi, Final D8000, and for no more than the HEK V2, Abyss Diana, and Audeze MX4!!!! And you’re going to bust their balls over a cable????
Damn.

1. Margins are not small on these, if they were they would not undertake the project, this is simple business practice.

2. You are comparing this headphone to many headphones of which the Empyrean may not be in the same league... or it may... we don't know yet.

3. For him to offer an XLR termination instead of the kind of pointless 3.5 mm would actually not really cost him any more money... I can only see him losing money by not selling an upgraded premium cable.

4. Zach's new BE driver is a hybrid (deposed BE) that has not really been done before... but its irrelevant to my main point. This is still a headphone, not a time travel device... as such it needs a cable.

If I was asking him to give me a second cable for no extra charge I can see more of your argument against me... I am simply saying please give me a termination choice that will cost you no more money. I realise you want to sell the upgraded premium cable but I don't think not offering the XLR termination will really inspire people to go for the cable upgrade. I realise we are now in a realm of audiophilia where people are yelling that $3000 is a good value... but I think we should have some sanity and grounding and realisation that audiophilia is still way out there and seldom a great 'value' at this price point. I am not saying these headphones are not worth the money but simply arguing a simple option that would lead to end user satisfaction would probably lead to more business not less.

I realise you are passionate about Antonio's labor of love and I wish Antonio only the best of luck with his new endeavour.

 

[Hifiearspeakers]

1. Margins are not small on these, if they were they would not undertake the project, this is simple business practice.

2. You are comparing this headphone to many headphones of which the Empyrean may not be in the same league... or it may... we don't know yet.

3. For him to offer an XLR termination instead of the kind of pointless 3.5 mm would actually not really cost him any more money... I can only see him losing money by not selling an upgraded premium cable.

4. Zach's new BE driver is a hybrid (deposed BE) that has not really been done before... but its irrelevant to my main point. This is still a headphone, not a time travel device... as such it needs a cable.

If I was asking him to give me a second cable for no extra charge I can see more of your argument against me... I am simply saying please give me a termination choice that will cost you no more money. I realise you want to sell the upgraded premium cable but I don't think not offering the XLR termination will really inspire people to go for the cable upgrade. I realise we are now in a realm of audiophilia where people are yelling that $3000 is a good value... but I think we should have some sanity and grounding and realisation that audiophilia is still way out there and seldom a great 'value' at this price point. I am not saying these headphones are not worth the money but simply arguing a simple option that would lead to end user satisfaction would probably lead to more business not less.

I realise you are passionate about Antonio's labor of love and I wish Antonio only the best of luck with his new endeavour.

I agree it’s expensive. No doubt about it. But comparatively speaking, in light of the current crop of ridiculous pricing, it’s very competitive.

What I appreciate is innovation and a company that is trying to make a true flagship headphone without compromise on build quality, comfort, or sound. For that, I want them to succeed. I want them to know that I appreciate that kind of a business model and I want them to be rewarded for their efforts.

Of course, none of this matters unless they actually deliver on all those points. Time will tell.

 

[racebit]

This cable talk is tiresome.
Balanced only has advantage in two situations:
1. On very long cables, used only on speakers
2. Increases power output capability, only useful on mobile battery devices.

Chord and Benchmark repeatedly stated there is no advantage in balanced headphone (except for mobile) and do not offer headphone balanced outputs (hope Mojo 2 will have 4.4mm).
Which brings the question, if Chord does not offer balanced headphones outputs, why do you want balanced cable, no where to connect it
Other companies just prefer to sell their headphones and so give the buyers all the cables they want, rather than wasting their time trying to convince/educate buyers.
Meze knows there is no advantage with balanced, that is why they do not offer at base. If you do not trust Meze, why do you buy their headhone. I would not buy a 3K headphone from people I do not trust to know what they are doing.

 

[smodtactical]

This cable talk is tiresome.
Balanced only has advantage in two situations:
1. On very long cables, used only on speakers
2. Increases power output capability, only useful on mobile battery devices.

Chord and Benchmark repeatedly stated there is no advantage in balanced headphone (except for mobile) and do not offer headphone balanced outputs (hope Mojo 2 will have 4.4mm).
Which brings the question, if Chord does not offer balanced headphones outputs, why do you want balanced cable, no where to connect it
Other companies just prefer to sell their headphones and so give the buyers all the cables they want, rather than wasting their time trying to convince/educate buyers.
Meze knows there is no advantage with balanced, that is why they do not offer at base. If you do not trust Meze, why do you buy their headhone. I would not buy a 3K headphone from people I do not trust to know what they are doing.

Except some amps sound much better out of balanced outputs such as my HDV 820 and HE9. Of course some amps may have circuitry that makes it so balanced is not really better than SE which is fine, but not all amps are like that.

 

[gLer]

But many on here, including me, would much rather take the more affordable $2999 price point.

If you read that statement back slowly you just have to laugh. ‘More affordable’? Respectfully, that’s the reason why these headphones are pushing into megabuck territory.

Chord and Benchmark repeatedly stated there is no advantage in balanced headphone (except for mobile) and do not offer headphone balanced outputs (hope Mojo 2 will have 4.4mm).
Which brings the question, if Chord does not offer balanced headphones outputs, why do you want balanced cable, no where to connect it

You say this as if Chord is some sort of industry standard. I know many who feel Chord is anything but, myself included.

Bottom line is this: balanced in and of itself is not an advantage. But many amps (and portable amps) are designed around a balanced architecture and therefore sound ‘better’ balanced than they do single ended.

Therefore by not giving customers the option of terminating their Empyrians with the correct cable for their amps is shortsighted and technically nonsensical, and then coming into this forum to defend that position is simply poor business practice. Unite your user base, don’t split them.

 

[Andykong]

Sorry for the double post but to be frank if you are spending $3000 on a pair of headphones you most certainly are a premium user already! I can't help but feel significant bias from your perspective seeing as you are a manufacturer yourself! Not to sound harsh but this move just seems like a money making scheme to force people to spend extra money on unnecessary cable upgrades just because they need a different but still very common termination in order to, you know, actually use the thing they paid $3000 for!!!

Thank you for point out my bad expression. My original thinking was a bit different but my writing didn't my message correctly.

I think Meze has adopted a good move by taking the more expansive headphone cable out, sell it as upgrade cable instead of including it in the original package. This will keep the cost down, in line with its competitors, and let the demanding users select their upgrade headphone cable according to their preference. Some users might have own Audeze type mXLR aftermarket headphone cables already, so they don't need another premium mXLR cable and sure don't want to pay for it. Some users prefer sourcing their own aftermarket cable to fine tune the system to their preference. Other users might consider DIY headphone cable to get the best bang of buck.

From what I observed, the headphone cables from Audeze LCD series, HiFiman HEK series, and Final D8000 are more a functional accessories, so including an expensive headphone cable in the original package might appear to be less competitive because potential customers (and reviews) frequently will compare the retail price without consider fine details such as quality of headphone cables included in the package.

PS. I have adjusted the original post to better reflect my meaning.

 

[gLer]

Thank you for point out my bad expression. My original thinking was a bit different but my writing didn't my message correctly.

I think Meze has adopted a good move by taking the more expansive headphone cable out, sell it as upgrade cable instead of including it in the original package. This will keep the cost down, in line with its competitors, and let the demanding users select their upgrade headphone cable according to their preference. Some users might have own Audeze type mXLR aftermarket headphone cables already, so they don't need another premium mXLR cable and sure don't want to pay for it. Some users prefer sourcing their own aftermarket cable to fine tune the system to their preference. Other users might consider DIY headphone cable to get the best bang of buck.

From what I observed, the headphone cables from Audeze LCD series, HiFiman HEK series, and Final D8000 are more a functional accessories, so including an expensive headphone cable in the original package might appear to be less competitive because potential customers (and reviews) frequently will compare the retail price without consider fine details such as quality of headphone cables included in the package.

PS. I have adjusted the original post to better reflect my meaning.

Andy I would normally agree with you (if you’re talking specifically about premium cables) but a balanced cable isn’t necessarily any more ‘premium’ than a single ended 6.3mm cable. In fact the termination connector is roughly the same price (I know, I’ve has custom cables made). And the quad cable is only slightly more expensive (and often the same price) as standard cables (I’m not talking fact braided copper Litz, just good old OFC cable). Remember we’re talking about a $3000 headphone here, not $300. Even $900 headphones are starting to ship with every type of cable available (again not premium cables, stock cables just terminated differently).

Meze is alienating a large number of potential buyers by not catering for a very simple need that wouldn’t cost them any more to provide, and from a company looking to sell a premium, exclusive product I would expect premium, exclusive service.

 

[Andykong]

Andy I would normally agree with you (if you’re talking specifically about premium cables) but a balanced cable isn’t necessarily any more ‘premium’ than a single ended 6.3mm cable. In fact the termination connector is roughly the same price (I know, I’ve has custom cables made). And the quad cable is only slightly more expensive (and often the same price) as standard cables (I’m not talking fact braided copper Litz, just good old OFC cable). Remember we’re talking about a $3000 headphone here, not $300. Even $900 headphones are starting to ship with every type of cable available (again not premium cables, stock cables just terminated differently).

Meze is alienating a large number of potential buyers by not catering for a very simple need that wouldn’t cost them any more to provide, and from a company looking to sell a premium, exclusive product I would expect premium, exclusive service.

I only comment on the issue of selling the upgrade cable as an independent item, I didn't comment in whether XLR4 should be included as one of the standard option or upgraded version. I know nothing about the choice and design of the cables, so I am not in a position to comment.

 

[smodtactical]

I only comment on the issue of selling the upgrade cable as an independent item, I didn't comment in whether XLR4 should be included as one of the standard option or upgraded version. I know nothing about the choice and design of the cables, so I am not in a position to comment.

Thanks for the clarification. Lets not muddy the waters here. We are simply asking for a basic XLR cable INSTEAD of whatever cable you are offering. We are in no way asking for a premium XLR cable of any kind.

Open the box... see that 3.5 mm cable? Change the termination to 4 pin XLR... there you go thats what we want. Not that hard my friends.

 

[erik701]

I’m glad that Antonio decided to use same termination on headphones end, as many other Companies are using, like Audeze, ZMF, Kennerton... You have so many aftermarket options, I wouldn’t complain about no option to get XLR in the box with Empyrean. Even Meze is offering upgraded Furukawa cable, which is terminated with 4 Pin XLR. I’m happy that thay packed Empyrean in very nice case and included two sets of earpads. Just my 2 cents...