[IPodPJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnsonad /img/forum/go_quote.gif Nope. Perform this mod, it will help some.

Don't say nope. The mod will obviously get rid of a lot of bass, but burn-in helps significantly.

Out of the box they sound very boomy. They sound very nice after 40 hours burn in. The bass wont sound boomy, but it is still powerful bass. It is much more controlled after 40 hours of burn-in.

When you say bomby, you do mean boomy, right?

 

[markl]

Quote:

The mod will obviously get rid of a lot of bass

IPodPJ, I've tried to explain that this is not the case. Yes, there is only a *slight* attenuation of bass, and a significant (but hardly ideal and not at all complete) reduction in the shakes and shivers within the headphone assembly and ear cups themselves. That is not elimination of actual musical bass information from the driver, but removal of some (not quite enough, sadly) of the extraneous vibrations within the rest of the headphone assembly. Please try the mod before determining that it removes all traces of actual real bass present in the headphone.

The effect is much more subtle than you seem to think.

Quote:

basically .. what is about your mod is to make the pad harder.. right?

No, as stated, the point of the mod is two fold:

1. Use of sponge to damp extraneous vibrations within the ear cup that can be passed on to the rest of the frame.

2. Use of extra cotton in the ear pads to add cushioning that moves the driver slightly away from the ear. This improves soundstaging. It has nothing to do with hardening the ear pads.

 

[markl]

OK, IPodPJ, I've ordered 500cc of Aerogel from: http://www.unitednuclear.com/aerogel.htm

Looks intriguing, not too expensive, I can always compare how it does vs. Tempur.

 

[IPodPJ]

YAY! 500cc should be enough for you to work with. Too bad the solid blocks are so expensive but I'm sure you can get creative (as you seem to be very intuitive with this kind of stuff) and make some kind of dampening pad out of it. Please post your results when you get it. Obviously no speaker manufacturers use it yet because it's so damn expensive, but I can forsee the day when some type of Aerogel pad is used like MDF.

It should blow the Tempur out of the water. Viscoelastic foam is a great material to absorb kinetic energy but I have my doubts with regards to it's acoustic dampening properties. Remember, NASA were the first ones to use the Tempur material and now it's featured in commercial products. In 5 to 10 years, Aerogel will be as well. It's still too costly to be used for commercial applications though.

 

[Fing]

Quote:

Originally Posted by markl /img/forum/go_quote.gif OK, IPodPJ, I've ordered 500cc of Aerogel from: http://www.unitednuclear.com/aerogel.htm Looks intriguing, not too expensive, I can always compare how it does vs. Tempur.

Never knew stuff like that existed. A real space age material.

Is killing all resonances dead the actual goal you are trying to achieve?

Or are you trying to 'tune' the resonances to sound the way you want them to?

I suspect that headphone tweakers and speaker makers use different densities and placement of foam within their housings to create the sound they are looking for.

 

[markl]

Quote:

Is killing all resonances dead the actual goal you are trying to achieve? Or are you trying to 'tune' the resonances to sound the way you want them to?

Fing, you've exactly nailed one of the profound questions I'm asking myself.

The short answer is "I don't lnow" (yet).

In dealing with Drew at Moon Audio, who is re-cabling a pair of Denons for me, he has looked at my mod, and while generally interested (particularly in the mod expanding the padding), had some questions/comments about sponge as a dampener. To paraphrase, he is wondering how much the sponge is damping the sound, as there are better, more specific sound dampeners out there, made for that exact purpose. He wonders if the mod is changing the Q of the driver which is "seeing" a smaller space behind it, which may be influencing frequency response and volume levels. He can't say for sure as he has not tried it, but expressed interest in doing so, once he has the time (if ever, sadly, so we may never know his findings). Then again, he was just speculating off the cuff, and has never tried the mod or anything like it, so he's as in the dark as the rest of us.

But given how successful this mod seems to be so far, maybe total dampening is not 100% ideal? Or, maybe, once even more and better damping is applied, it will be even better?

So. the answer is, I don't know exactly how and why this mod works, if it does work exactly in the way I intended or not. I only know that my first guess at a solution to the Denon's problems was a very very good one and that others seem to feel the same way. That's not to say all experimentation has stopped or should stop.

In the future, different mods and materials will be used, and we should be able to develop the best mod possible.

 

[johnsonad]

Quote:

Originally Posted by IPodPJ /img/forum/go_quote.gif Don't say nope. The mod will obviously get rid of a lot of bass, but burn-in helps significantly. Out of the box they sound very boomy. They sound very nice after 40 hours burn in. The bass wont sound boomy, but it is still powerful bass. It is much more controlled after 40 hours of burn-in.

IYO, IMHO there is little change other than you get used to the cans. I've owned both D2k and D5k. As markl states, it doesn't get rid of the bass. It is still there. Just try it so you won't be as much of a skeptic please

Quote:

Originally Posted by markl /img/forum/go_quote.gif OK, IPodPJ, I've ordered 500cc of Aerogel from: http://www.unitednuclear.com/aerogel.htm Looks intriguing, not too expensive, I can always compare how it does vs. Tempur.

Great idea! Please let us know how it works!

 

[IPodPJ]

I'm not trying to be a skeptic.

I have absolutely no doubt that it does what you claim. And I think it's awesome that people take bold chances with their investment by doing things like this.

As I've said, I won't do it because if it changes the bass in any way, I would be unhappy. I think the bass is perfect the way it is. I will do the pad mod if I get an extra set of pads though.

Mark,
Have you put any thought into how you are going to bond the Aerogel with the wood, or even a secondary dampening agent? Perhaps you can mix it with a lightweight rubber compound and bonding cement to make a paste out of it.

The ideal thing to do would be to make your own mold first. Then you could try various Aerogel compound mixtures and see which one works best. I would think some kind of foam-in-a-can aerosol spray would work well as a base. Pour it in your mold, and then put some low-tack epoxy on the back and stick it to the inside of the ear cups.

 

[MuseMan]

In regards to the recabling, is it permissible or possible to get a company (APureSound etc) to recable them without damaging/affecting the aforementioned Markl mod?

Thanks.

 

[markl]

I doubt a re-cable will make it impossible (I'll be testing this theory), unless they tie a second knot in the cable or add an even thicker outer sheath to the cable underneath the ear cup, but none seem to do that...

 

[jellybones]

If you still wanted to give the memory foam a go..Overstock has 2 pillows for 15 bucks.

http://www.overstock.com/Home-Garden...gGauv1uLbe_XMQ

 

[markl]

Quote:

Have you put any thought into how you are going to bond the Aerogel with the wood,

I don't know, I was thinkingg of just pouring the little lumps straight into the cup? Having never touched the stuff, I don't really know what the cinsistency of it is, etc. I guess I'll find out.

 

[lmilhan]

Bumping this up to keep it in the spotlight. Although I am not big into modding a pair of stock phones, but I am seriously considering this one. The idea of making the D5000s sound even better than they already do is indeed very appealing. I'm just waiting to hear from a few more people who perform the mod and are as thrilled with the results as the OP is...

For the record, I love my D5000s. By far my favorite closed phones to date - but to be fair, I haven't ever heard a pair of R-10s. Not that it matters, I could never afford a pair of R-10s even if I loved them.

At any rate, another question for the OP:
After the mod, do you find the D5000s as comfortable to wear as when they were stock? The D5000 comfort level is very important to me, and I would hate to knock that all out of whack with a mod.

Thanks for posting the mod, and your impressions. You certainly have my attention.

 

[markl]

Hi lmilhan,
Comfort doesn't really change, at least it didn't for me.

As soon as Drew at Moon gets back to me, I'm gonna send him the funds for the re-cable. It turns out, he is now also carrying the Denons, so I am buying it directly from him so he can do the re-cable on them.

The cable is new and not up on the site. It's the V3 Blue Dragon made with single-crystal copper and a furutech plug. Sounds the business, and I can't wait to get to hear it.

When the new phone arrives, I'll be able to compare A/B any new changes I make (like using the Aerogel or Tempur) compared to the V.1 markl sponge mod-ed Denons I already have. Of course I will report back when that happens. No idea what his turnaround time is, though....

 

[MuseMan]

I have to say, these really have transformed. I listened to Porcupine Tree's latest album last night and it was a revelatory experience! The detail of these phones increased tremendously and the bass is as tight as a drum.

I really cannot possibly shower enough praise on to Markl, thanks again Cap'n!

-

lmilhan - the comfort for me remains the same, that is, exquisitely comfortable. I urge you to try the mod, give it some time, and if you still do not like it - it is reversible if you have enough patience.