Macbook Pro Audio Quality
Jun 21, 2007 at 5:11 PM Post #181 of 227
Quote:

Originally Posted by scrypt /img/forum/go_quote.gif
There's no such thing as a computer that doesn't require maintenance.


I manage six macs at my home and office and the only maintenance I do, other than click on the auto updates when they come up, is to install Macaroni and let it do its stuff. That one simple application does everything in the background while I work.

See ya
Steve
 
Jul 13, 2007 at 9:07 PM Post #182 of 227
Quote:

Originally Posted by maarek99 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
The mac doesn't have any utility to make screencaps? I have a pretty cluttered screen at the moment, I'd like to take a cap.


Actually it does (above and beyond the keyboard shortcuts mentioned). In the Applications/Utility folder there is an app called "Grab". Launch it, tell it what you want to capture (current selection, an entire window, or the entire screen) and go to town.

This thread is a hoot. I run Macs and PC's at home (with a few Linux/xBSD machines thrown in to keep things interesting) so I can relate to both sides of the argument.

Back to the original point, the SQ of my MacBook Pro is far superiour to that of the Dell D series that I had (which is great since I can't get my Sonica USB to work properly with the MBP, if anyone has this working, how'd you do it?). It does exhibit a bit of background hiss, but it's workable, unlike the Dell which prompted my purchase of the Sonica.
 
Jul 14, 2007 at 11:08 PM Post #183 of 227
Quote:

Originally Posted by scrypt /img/forum/go_quote.gif
There's no such thing as a computer that doesn't require maintenance.


Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I manage six macs at my home and office and the only maintenance I do, other than click on the auto updates when they come up, is to install Macaroni and let it do its stuff. That one simple application does everything in the background while I work.


Six macs in pristine order with nary a meltdown? You must be very proud. Let that sense of fulfillment carry you the next time you're tempted to compose literal-minded refutations of epigrams on the inevitable. Six macs and no maintenance? Gad, I find that stirring. By the way, did you know the grass isn't always greener on the other side of the fence? According to my sources, it's really the same color.
 
Jul 15, 2007 at 12:03 AM Post #184 of 227
Quote:

Originally Posted by scrypt /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Let that sense of fulfillment carry you the next time you're tempted to compose literal-minded refutations of epigrams on the inevitable.


Am I a nattering nabob of negativity too? Spiro Agnew LIVES!

See ya
Steve
 
Jul 15, 2007 at 10:20 AM Post #185 of 227
Merciful hair-splits, largebuck! I'd thought allowing you to get in a few punches would assuage the embarrassment you suffered in the portables forum. Yet you persist in sniping, and seem no better at responding to tact than heeding logic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Am I a nattering nabob of negativity too? Spiro Agnew LIVES!


Again, you've trained your myopic gaze on surfaces -- in this case, on what you take to be similar patterns. Allow me to respond in kind:

Yes, Agnew does live, in the sense that, like him, you show no understanding of prosodic effects. In this case, you've failed to distinguish between assonance and (Agnew's) alliteration. You've also confused a pattern of two like sounds for Agnew's less justifiable pattern of three. I'd address the third possible surface parallel -- adjectival phrase + noun + preposition + noun -- if it weren't numbingly arbitrary (second-born son of Sam being an example of why that formulation has nothing to do with an Agnew speech).

A less-skin-deep similarity between you and the deceased: Stubbornness in your pursuit of ill-perceived enemies.

Lest you continue claiming your motives are innocent, let's splinter that roadblock with a fistful of history:

No one who's glanced at this thread believes you're looking out for my so-called "audience." Far from being a disinterested party, you're trying to get back at me for making well-intentioned jokes in response to one of your posts.

To further highlight your dishonesty, here's a recap of your latest inconsistencies:

In your previous deleted post on this thread, you said you'd posted your first attack because you'd stopped reading me and were concerned about my "audience" (said deleted post being a commentary on one of the posts you'd claimed not to read). Then you posted an attempted correction of something I'd written pages ago, proving you were doing anything but "skimming." (If you did skim and were bored, then this thread could have continued to be about the MacBook Pro instead of becoming Big-Shot's Vindictive Adventure.)

In my first response, I asked you to desist from personal attacks politely; you didn't. I said nothing when you attacked again, hoping my silence would give you satisfaction; that didn't work, either. Unfortunately, you couldn't maintain your pose of disinterest and had to snipe a third time, signaling your determination to stay the course.

Hence these two less polite responses. Sadly, it seems you're impervious to politeness.

Until you began to slime me with the rancid testosterone of your resentment, I hadn't realized your sig ("See ya!") echoed your consuming need to zing your tormentors. I don't know what past indignity resulted in this dogged rancor, but I can tell you it doesn't matter here.

The tragic part of your compulsion to pay me back is this: You seem to believe your humiliation was my doing. But the truth is, you made an embarrassing pronouncement on a thread devoted to a piece of kit you hadn't heard and several people responded as I did. I wasn't even the first.

We've all made wrong-headed assertions at one time or another. But it seems to have hurt you deeply that a few members enjoyed the style of my responses (especially to your comment that people who preferred their iMods to their CD players were probably unable to set correct levels). My comments (and others' amusement) seem to have led you to seek revenge against me through relentless attacks on my style itself. You want me to know how it feels to have people on a thread turn against me. But that isn't necessary: Like everyone else, I know already.

If I hurt you inadvertently, then I apologize. But it's time to let it go.

We all receive praise and ridicule, and it's pointless to go around stalking people who happen to notice when your argument's at its worst. You'll refine your argument ultimately, and no one will care that you once hit a few false notes.

The truth is, I had no intention of attacking you on that thread and no motive for doing damage. I had no idea you were upset. I joked with you about your assertions as I might with a friend, and was kinder than many posters in that forum tend to be.

You, on the other hand, have been seeking me out with pointed unneighborly persistence. Why go on parsing out these haiku of resentment instead of moving on?

A few last responses to insults you've lobbed so far:

1. Regarding your late career as my advice-doling would-be editor: Championing finely wrought style by selectively attacking a Head-fi member who writes carefully on an internet forum where certain beloved members barely know how to spell is as hypocritical as it is breathtakingly dumb.

2. Professing heartfelt concern for my so-called "audience" is pointless, since my true audience consists of people who actually read me. The reader who refrains is therefore not a member of my "audience," which is all for the best: they avoid being bothered and I avoid acquiring another stalker.

3. It seems especially condescending of you to call fellow Head-fi members another member's "audience." I'd thought these people were my talkative friends and equals, not some crowd of silent spectators.

4. Attacks on style are never about style at all, just as physical attributes don't matter until someone is disliked. When a sullen loner feels rejected by a weighty friend, the result is often paunch-specific insult.

Yet the loner's true concern is rarely the subject of the complaint. More often, the loner simply feels overlooked.

You weren't overlooked this time, Steve. Now be true to your word and pay me the compliment of your disinterest.
 
Jul 15, 2007 at 12:50 PM Post #186 of 227
It is true that the output of mac is good. It is not because of the sound card in the computer since mac don't have a sound card in the traditional sense(part of the contract with apple corp is that apple computer cannot have a sound card in the traditional sense).

The excellent sound quality come from core audio and how the OSX treats audio. The way sound is process(I don't mean improving by a algorithm but how the audio is prioritize by the cpu.) by the cpu.

The DAC in macs are quite good but still not as good as a good external dac because the dac in mac are still subject to inference of the computer, power limitation of a notebook computer and integration in the motherboard.

So any mac with core audio, osx is better than most window machine.

note: pc=personal computer. pc does not mean a computer with window as a os. A pc can be any computer use by a person with a os such as mac, window, linux.
 
Jul 15, 2007 at 5:23 PM Post #187 of 227
Would somebody read that creative writing assignment up there for me. I've got to go wash my dog.

See ya
Steve
 
Jul 15, 2007 at 11:24 PM Post #188 of 227
For what it worth, My MacBookPro (5/07, not lattest) via iTunes ALL feeding a Cosecant USB tube Dac sounds somewhat better than the same files played via JRiver Media Center (on a WinXP) with ASIO driver to by pass KMixer. The difference is not, however, vast.
 
Jul 17, 2007 at 9:11 PM Post #189 of 227
I like how it seems if people defend apple or microsoft they are doing the world a favor. OSX vs. Windows debates have been beaten to death. Heck I use both. Macbook Pro and a custom built desktop running Vista. Yes there are problems with both of them, but neither of them have crashed.

So just shut the hell up on these OS debates.
 
Jul 17, 2007 at 9:19 PM Post #190 of 227
Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Would somebody read that creative writing assignment up there for me. I've got to go wash my dog.

See ya
Steve



I'll join you.
 
Jul 17, 2007 at 9:24 PM Post #191 of 227
I don't have a MAC myself, but I have a few friends who do. Off topic: I understand that the MAC can play back files in 16, 20, 24 bit format? One of my mates told me that his MAC Book connected to his TC-7510 and playing in 24 bit rocks and far ahead in detail compared to 16 bit. To be honest with you, I never expected the TC-7510 to be able to handle 24 bit files from a MAC. Are other external DACs also able to do this?
 
Sep 9, 2009 at 6:26 AM Post #192 of 227
I'm not sure if this is a 'feature' of the Realtek sound chip or not:

But when I listen to quieter passages in anything with appreciable dynamic range, I can hear noise. Not a circuit issue, because I can hear the software mixer cut out when the audio stops using power.

Then, when I play, for instance, a piano note, or any other sample with a long decay/reverb tail, I can literally HEAR THE SOUND CARD CHOPPING THE BIT RESOLUTION, also, presumably, to conserve power. It gets uglier and uglier as I attenuate OSX's own software fader, and as the tail itself approaches -infinity, it sounds more and more like an 80's arcade game.

Of course, when the note is released, the audio kicks out and the computer is silent again. And, of course, when I crank that **** up (using semi-or-completely-open cans, the buds that came with my Shuffle, or my bro's 40 dollar ATechnicas), the noise floor remains, but the quantization noise disappears. I suspect the DAC's firmware, mainly because I am able to remove/replace the noise even during a decay/tail which had been producing the garbage. Such control is not a circuitry problem, or Apple's design flaw (only their judgement in letting Intel have anything to do with the audio in an Apple computer product, or in not testing the product with golden ears).

And, it's a forgone conclusion that external converters banish the same artifacts.

Now, ladies and gentlemen, I'm all for power conservation, but I know that in four years with the Powerbook and its built-in Texas Instruments TAS3004, I could listen to something like Pat Metheny's One Quite Night with the Apple fader near the bottom and still enjoy crisp, detailed noise-free (analog or digital) music.

I'm going back to the Apple dealer to demonstrate. I can only pray that this new "effect" is a product of a system in need of logic board replacement, and not, god forbid, a property of the Intel sound hardware that has been foisted upon longtime Apple users. I wonder if Powermac to MacPro migrants have noticed a similar change from their Burr Brown converters...

The frustrating thing is, is that if my hypothesis is correct, then in order to enjoy a comparable experience to my PPC macs, I need to employ an Echo Indgo or similar product--- which almost, but not entirely defeats the purpose of spending 2000 bucks on a laptop. The OS is still there, the integrated H/W is still there, the stuff still looks mint, but this one detail really has me bothered. Even though I didn't detect it for two weeks because I was doing most of my writing in public and was nowhere near the acoustically controlled environment I use for mixing.

The idea that an apple laptop ostensibly (well, gdamt, by _reputation_) has been implementing some surreptitious kind of VBR decoding because it thinks the user can't tell the difference is rather insulting to both our intelligences.

Any similar experiences?

cheers

D
 
Sep 9, 2009 at 6:37 AM Post #193 of 227
Oh, I could go into detail about how I can hear logic board noise in the quiet passages (an engineer relative of mine thinks that that's because Apple got ahead of themselves in the miniaturization area), but that's only in the top three. A replacement, recall or a revision can fix that, but a poor quality on-board converter's design flaw is a little harder to deal with, unless some entrepreneur markets a chip, or Apple offers an option. I would pay extra for such an upgrade, even if Intel themselves were to set the price.
 
Sep 9, 2009 at 6:48 AM Post #194 of 227
Oh yeah, while writing the above, I decided to masochistically test things yet again with track one from Bela Bartok (Stephen Kovacavich w/ LSO Phillips 4681882), track 3 from Slint's Tweez, and even a warm, hissy flac of Trooper's Oh Pretty Lady (album cut, _not_ Hot Shots). I actually got angry until I plugged my MOTU Ultralite in. Like going from a splitting migraine to an mdma rush, all in the space of a single switch, hahaha. Anybody got the same/similar gear, let me know what your mileage is...
 
Jan 14, 2010 at 2:01 AM Post #195 of 227
Quote:

Originally Posted by mastercheif /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Well, one thing that might be contributing is that Macs are Bit-Perfect out of the box, so that comes as a surprise to many long time pc users. But yes, the sound out of my Macbook Pro far surpasses any laptop I have used before.


Sorry if this post is really really really old, and im bumping old topics, but i couldnt stand all this bs.

My HP DV5-1134tx laptop's standard IDT HD Audio soundcard beats my new 15" Macbook Pro sound card's quality. The Intel HD Audio card built into the macbook cant take bass for crap. I get the staticky distortion you get with any other crappy audio card. Increase the lower bands in the itunes eq even +3 DB and u get distortion. Very crap indeed. Listening to heavy metal is very annoying with the apple's default sound card.

The sound card is just loud... there is no depth to the sound.
 

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