Mac OS X Music Players - alternatives to iTunes
Feb 15, 2015 at 11:11 AM Post #2,716 of 3,495
It may be that Krutsch's observations are specific to USB 2 whereas Zorrofox is plugged in to USB 3 which has ~ 10 times the bandwidth, so sharing services are not as big a deal.

 
Both ports on my MBP are USB 3.0, but keep in mind that the DACs are all USB 2.0, as are all of the internal devices in the Mac Mini/Book that use the same bus. You can see this in the USB device browser.
 
Bandwidth is not the issue, it's the interrupts that may cause drop-outs/clicks/pops. And, to be clear, I'm not saying these artifacts are constant - but it happens, even if only occasionally.
 
Feb 15, 2015 at 11:45 AM Post #2,717 of 3,495
   
Both ports on my MBP are USB 3.0, but keep in mind that the DACs are all USB 2.0, as are all of the internal devices in the Mac Mini/Book that use the same bus. You can see this in the USB device browser.
 
Bandwidth is not the issue, it's the interrupts that may cause drop-outs/clicks/pops. And, to be clear, I'm not saying these artifacts are constant - but it happens, even if only occasionally.

You reminded me that I should also follow this logic on my HP laptop which is being tested for a bedside rig.  Had quite a few drops which have been really minimized due to some network adjustments, but I never thought about the USB port assignments.  I will try some other ports to see if the last few occasional pops on hi rez can be eliminated this way.
 
I know my usb map for the mini makes a difference, this should as well, thanks Krutsch.
 
Feb 15, 2015 at 12:24 PM Post #2,718 of 3,495
   
Both ports on my MBP are USB 3.0, but keep in mind that the DACs are all USB 2.0, as are all of the internal devices in the Mac Mini/Book that use the same bus. You can see this in the USB device browser.
 
Bandwidth is not the issue, it's the interrupts that may cause drop-outs/clicks/pops. And, to be clear, I'm not saying these artifacts are constant - but it happens, even if only occasionally.


My MBP is a late 2008 with (USB 2.0 & FW).  I wasn't sure that your 2011 MBP had USB 3.0 yet.  
I found on my own to make sure to connect my USB Headamp Pico DAC/Amp to the second USB port, the one with the fewest services running, and I rarely have glitches, even though my machine is getting to be a bit underpowered.
 
Feb 15, 2015 at 12:43 PM Post #2,719 of 3,495
 
My MBP is a late 2008 with (USB 2.0 & FW).  I wasn't sure that your 2011 MBP had USB 3.0 yet.  
I found on my own to make sure to connect my USB Headamp Pico DAC/Amp to the second USB port, the one with the fewest services running, and I rarely have glitches, even though my machine is getting to be a bit underpowered.


My MacBook Pro (Retina, Early 2013, USB 3.0) had the same issues as my underpowered Mac Mini (Early, 2009, USB 2.0 & FW 800) until I sorted out the USB port issues. Once I added RAM to the 2009 Mac Mini (up to 8BG) and placed devices on non-competing ports, I get flawless playback. I mean, not a single glitch.
 
The Mac Mini 2009 model provides access to 3 different USB busses on the back:
 
- Port 2 shares a USB bus with the IR connection and the bluetooth adapter.
- Ports 1+5 (HDD - I use 1) and 3+4 (DAC - I use 4) are each on their own USB bus. 
 
A real pain... but I don't think PC/Mac H/W designers were ever planning on having to deal with the ridiculous sensitivity of USB DACs.
 
That said, since the 2009 model was the last to use an outboard power supply, I think this model is the best directly connected music server, once configured properly.
 
Feb 16, 2015 at 2:21 AM Post #2,720 of 3,495
I just upped my A+ 1.5.12 license. Can anyone tell me how to get rid of the side menu on A+ 2.0x permanently ?
I need to grab and drag it left for the tree (if that is its name) to disappear every time I fire it up fresh.
 
I like the new style and SQ seems different to 1.5.12....less etched.
 

 
Feb 16, 2015 at 2:22 AM Post #2,721 of 3,495
I also emailed Damien to incorporate drag-and-drop.
 
Feb 16, 2015 at 1:30 PM Post #2,722 of 3,495
My MacBook Pro (Retina, Early 2013, USB 3.0) had the same issues as my underpowered Mac Mini (Early, 2009, USB 2.0 & FW 800) until I sorted out the USB port issues. Once I added RAM to the 2009 Mac Mini (up to 8BG) and placed devices on non-competing ports, I get flawless playback. I mean, not a single glitch.

The Mac Mini 2009 model provides access to 3 different USB busses on the back:
 
- Port 2 shares a USB bus with the IR connection and the bluetooth adapter.
- Ports 1+5 (HDD - I use 1) and 3+4 (DAC - I use 4) are each on their own USB bus. 

A real pain... but I don't think PC/Mac H/W designers were ever planning on having to deal with the ridiculous sensitivity of USB DACs.

That said, since the 2009 model was the last to use an outboard power supply, I think this model is the best directly connected music server, once configured properly.


I've been using optical out for my Channel Islands DAC but I've ordered a USB DAC and it may be a bit of a problem. My late 2008 MBP only has 2 USB 2.0 ports. I'll put the DAC on the clean USB port. But my music library on an external Seagate Slim 2T hard drive will have to be on a USB hub, and that has already been a problem sometimes, sharing with another drive, mouse, etc.
 
Feb 16, 2015 at 2:34 PM Post #2,723 of 3,495
I've been using optical out for my Channel Islands DAC but I've ordered a USB DAC and it may be a bit of a problem. My late 2008 MBP only has 2 USB 2.0 ports. I'll put the DAC on the clean USB port. But my music library on an external Seagate Slim 2T hard drive will have to be on a USB hub, and that has already been a problem sometimes, sharing with another drive, mouse, etc.

 
I had the same issue with my late 2009 MBP, and putting the USB storage through a hub made it skip and hang up. I ended up transfering everything to a firewire drive to fix it. Although now that Apple has gone away from Firewire, I'll have to go back to USB when I buy a new Mac Mini.
 
Feb 16, 2015 at 2:45 PM Post #2,724 of 3,495
Or buy a Thunderbolt drive. Or a car.
 
Thunderbolt is ridiculously expensive.
 
Feb 16, 2015 at 6:49 PM Post #2,725 of 3,495
I've been using optical out for my Channel Islands DAC but I've ordered a USB DAC and it may be a bit of a problem. My late 2008 MBP only has 2 USB 2.0 ports. I'll put the DAC on the clean USB port. But my music library on an external Seagate Slim 2T hard drive will have to be on a USB hub, and that has already been a problem sometimes, sharing with another drive, mouse, etc.

 
I've been considering, lately, re-trying the optical out approach. You are limited to 96 kHz (not that it matters, but that's for another thread...) although I read that the newer generations of MacBook Retinas will actually do 192 kHz from that port. And, of course, you need a mini-TOSLINK adapter. But, prior to the whole async USB hysteria, I thought optical out from a Mac sounded cleaner and with no pops/noise.
 
Continuing on...
 
   
I had the same issue with my late 2009 MBP, and putting the USB storage through a hub made it skip and hang up. I ended up transfering everything to a firewire drive to fix it. Although now that Apple has gone away from Firewire, I'll have to go back to USB when I buy a new Mac Mini.

 
While I have experienced drop-outs with the DAC side of things, I have been able to place drives on the busy ports with fewer problems. On my MacBook Retina, I am using a USB-powered 3.0 drive which will read/write 80+ MBps (plenty fast for music, especially with 16 GB of RAM to cache). On the older Mac Mini, I placed a Seagate Hybrid drive (1 TB 2.5" HDD with 4GB NAND Flash) into an aftermarket enclosure. Even with USB 2.0 it's performed nicely (roughly 37+ MBps), due to very aggressive caching which also mediates latency issues.
 
I've made heavy use of Firewire in the past, which is faster than USB 2.0 and avoids the bus conflict issue, but reliability depends on the devices. With Seagate HDDs I've been able to daisy-chain devices, but with my Drobo I've had connection issues since Mountain Lion.
 
Thunderbolt... yeah... who buys those?
 
Feb 16, 2015 at 9:01 PM Post #2,726 of 3,495
   
I had the same issue with my late 2009 MBP, and putting the USB storage through a hub made it skip and hang up. I ended up transfering everything to a firewire drive to fix it. Although now that Apple has gone away from Firewire, I'll have to go back to USB when I buy a new Mac Mini.

 
If I have problems with my USB, I may try my FW drive.  I think you can use a FW to Thunderbolt adapter or a FW to USB 3.0 adapter when you get a new Mac with no more FW.
 
   
I've been considering, lately, re-trying the optical out approach. You are limited to 96 kHz (not that it matters, but that's for another thread...) although I read that the newer generations of MacBook Retinas will actually do 192 kHz from that port. And, of course, you need a mini-TOSLINK adapter. But, prior to the whole async USB hysteria, I thought optical out from a Mac sounded cleaner and with no pops/noise.
 
Continuing on...
 
 
While I have experienced drop-outs with the DAC side of things, I have been able to place drives on the busy ports with fewer problems. On my MacBook Retina, I am using a USB-powered 3.0 drive which will read/write 80+ MBps (plenty fast for music, especially with 16 GB of RAM to cache). On the older Mac Mini, I placed a Seagate Hybrid drive (1 TB 2.5" HDD with 4GB NAND Flash) into an aftermarket enclosure. Even with USB 2.0 it's performed nicely (roughly 37+ MBps), due to very aggressive caching which also mediates latency issues.
 
I've made heavy use of Firewire in the past, which is faster than USB 2.0 and avoids the bus conflict issue, but reliability depends on the devices. With Seagate HDDs I've been able to daisy-chain devices, but with my Drobo I've had connection issues since Mountain Lion.
 
Thunderbolt... yeah... who buys those?

 
My present DAC only has s/pdif (coax & toslink).  I don't remember if asynchronous USB had come along when I got my DAC, at least at a price for the masses. Optical was the way to go to avoid the electronic and electromagnetic noise from inside the computer, even if it is prone to jitter.  I have an optical cabe with the normal toslink connector on one end and a mini-toslink on the other ready to shove into the Mac headphone out.
 
Feb 16, 2015 at 9:02 PM Post #2,727 of 3,495
   
If I have problems with my USB, I may try my FW drive.  I think you can use a FW to Thunderbolt adapter or a FW to USB 3.0 adapter when you get a new Mac with no more FW.
 
 
My present DAC only has s/pdif (coax & toslink).  I don't remember if asynchronous USB had come along when I got my DAC, at least at a price for the masses. Optical was the way to go to avoid the electronic and electromagnetic noise from inside the computer, even if it is prone to jitter.  I have an optical cabe with the normal toslink connector on one end and a mini-toslink on the other ready to shove into the Mac headphone out.

 
Don't worry about the jitter... really. Plug in that TOSLINK cable and enjoy the music!
 
Feb 16, 2015 at 9:32 PM Post #2,728 of 3,495
   
Don't worry about the jitter... really. Plug in that TOSLINK cable and enjoy the music!


That's what I'm doing right now.  I've been toslink-only in my home rig for some time, "and loving every minute of it."  (any Maxwell Smart fans?)
 
Feb 20, 2015 at 10:24 PM Post #2,729 of 3,495
New to this thread.  I have been dabbling with some of the listed apps on my mac and so far my favorite is Fidelia, WOW.  I love this app.  It sounds wonderful, and does what I want with playlists, etc. I had no idea there could be such a difference with players when access the same FLAC files, using the same headphone amp and headphones. Only downside, it looks expensive if you want all the bells and whistles.  But dang, this is so nice. I may not be able to return to iTunes.
 
Feb 21, 2015 at 11:04 AM Post #2,730 of 3,495
I've been looking for a fairly minimal player for OSX that lets me customize the way that track information is displayed - similar to the "custom columns" you can have in Foobar or the "expression columns" you can have in JRiver Media Center.
 
Does anybody know of one?
 
I've tried most of the players mentioned in this thread and haven't found such a feature. But it's possible I missed an application, or that I downloaded one and simply overlooked the feature I'm looking for.
 
(I know there's a version of JRiver Media Center for OSX, but it's the ugliest thing I've ever seen.)
 
(To clarify, when I say "customize" - I don't need an app that is fully skinnable like Foobar or JRiver. I don't necessarily mind if the app is skinnable, but all I'm interested in is customizing the way that track information is displayed.)
 

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